Report: Oberlin Weekend Visit

<p>Well, not quite the entire weekend, but Thursday night, Friday and Saturday. This was a second look for my D, the first since her acceptance into the College of Arts and Sciences. </p>

<p>Thursday night: Dinner in town at our favorite, Weia Teia at 9 Main Street. It's even more eclectic than last summer. I had the Chicken Cheese Cake. Surprise! It's an entree, not a dessert. It was absolutely fabulous. Outside, it was sort of cold, but there clearly were families with accepted students in tow, wandering around the town. </p>

<p>Friday: A mob scene. Well, kind of. Oberlin administration were shocked by the number of people that showed up on the first day of "All Roads Lead to Oberlin." One of them admitted it privately. They miscalulated. They didn't think so many people would use Good Friday and Easter Weekend to visit their college. There weren't enough seats or tables during lunch, which, by the way, was held for all visitors in Carnegie (Admissions & Financial Aid building) instead of a dining hall. Lunch was nothing special. And that's a good thing, because there were so many people. They saved money by going cheap. </p>

<p>We all registered and our student picked up a thick white folder containing information and goodies. Upstairs on the second floor they set up a "Resource Fair." Everything on campus from the Co-ops to the ExCos to the Oberlin Technology Center (buy your student's PC on campus and you'll save money and they will service it if something breaks) and a dozen more Oberlin "vendors"--too many for me to remember. But I thought it was very worthwhile. </p>

<p>At a few minutes before 10 am, most of the student visitors took off to attend the class of their choice (repeated at 11 am). My daughter attended a class on advanced music theory, then Sociology at 11. Here's the good and the bad. The GOOD: parents and siblings could attend the classes too, provided there was enough room. Very cool. The BAD: this was very much not organized by Oberlin. It was "do it on your own." By contrast, we had visited Dickinson College on Wednesday for a similar purpose, and they ran their visitation for accepted students like a Swiss watch.</p>

<p>Lunch followed the 11 am class visits. After lunch, there was a series of panel discussions. For the first one, they separated the parents and students. Student siblings tended to participate in the student session. The parents session was absolutely packed (Did I say they were shocked by the number of people that showed up? Did I say they were not a well-oiled and organized machine?). It was so packed in the auditorium, parents had to stand against the walls, some sat on steps in the aisles, completely blocking the aisles, some got frustrated by the crowd and left. Then the room blew up.</p>

<p>After a softball question for the four panelists (four staff members), your's truly threw out a bomb. I asked about the "communal bathrooms" in the dorms, if it was true that boys and girls would use the same bathroom at the same time, including the showers. You could've heard a pin drop among the massive crowd of parents. My impression was a significant number of them had never heard this "rumor" that I wanted confirmed or dismissed. Many of them tapped me on the shoulder or approached me afterwards and either confessed they didn't know about this kind of "permissiveness" or to tell me that they were Oberlin alumns and they didn't think it was a big deal. The shocked parents outnumbered the "no big deal" parents by about 5 to 1.</p>

<p>After the panelists did their best to "explain" the policy, several parents asked follow-up questions on the same issue. Parents of daughters were particularly concerned. There was a big debate about secret ballots (of students deciding their dorm bathroom policy) and if they were really secret. A couple of sets of parents weren't happy and left the room. I hope I didn't ruin this year's yield. Oops! All I did was ask for clarification. One of the parents not bothered by the communal bathrooms insisted this type of policy is very common in colleges today. Uh, I don't think so. As I indicated earlier, I was at Dickinson all day two days ago, and they do NOT have that kind of policy. The most risque they get is boys and girls "wings" on the same floor, or boys and girls floors, but totally separate bathing facilities. That appears to be the policy in the traditional dorms. It's a bit looser in upper class loft apartment style housing.</p>

<p>The afternoon panels at Oberlin were without tension, perhaps because I decided not to ask any questions. Later we visited the library where my Penn State older daughter was allowed to use one of Oberlin's PCs to sign in to a class at Penn State (Oberlin is very friendly). I managed to read about 1/3 of one of Ariana Huffington's latest books in the library cafe while every one else walked around the facility. </p>

<p>Outside we ran into many of the parents of accepted students whom we had met earlier in the day and chatted them up again. Some of their students had already committed to Oberlin. Others, like my daughter, were still weighing their options, and most we spoke with were weighing the cost of Oberlin vs. U of Michigan or Penn State or U of Virginia, places like that. There were a couple of Oberlin vs. Vassar or Oberlin vs. Colgate pending decisions, but most were Oberlin vs. a top state school. </p>

<p>My wife and I had a private discussion session with one of the financial aid counselors earlier in the day. We got nowhere with this person, which was disappointing. We're going to appeal in writing to the financial aid committee. There was a parade of parents in the financial aid office during the day. Bring your lawyer. Just kidding. But definitely bring financial aid offers received from other schools. </p>

<p>We had dinner out in the suburbs (North Olmstead). There were several restaurants within walking distance of the Marriott Courtyard, and there was a big shopping mall right across the street. We picked the Macaroni Grill. Turns out when we checked into the hotel, I was asked the nature of our visit, and was informed that there were "a ton of other families visiting Oberlin" that had checked in earlier. The hotel is about 19 miles from Oberlin, in the direction of Cleveland. Don't believe them when they tell you it will take 35 minutes to go from the Marriott to Oberlin. It took us 22 minutes. There is also a Radisson across the street from the Marriott and a Hampton Inn next day. Obviously, several familes felt the cheaper, closer to Oberlin hotels were not nice enough (e.g, Comfort Inn). I thought we would be the only people who felt that way but, obviously, I was wrong. One dad I met on campus did stay close but picked a Bed and Breakfast. I should add, the Oberlin Inn is very nice but almost always crowded and the rooms are tiny. I stayed at the Oberlin Inn last summer and thought the bathroom was intended for a doll house. </p>

<p>On Saturday (today), we checked out of our hotel and drove into Oberlin to eat breatfast at the famous Black River Cafe. They opened at 9:00. There must've been a line, because we arrived at 9:15 and had to wait for a table. There was a ton more parents at the Black River Cafe, some we recognized from the Friday events. They waved. There was a long waiting line the entire time we were there. Verdict on the food: My kids loved the pancakes and waffles. I was not impressed. It was average, I thought. I know it's probably heresy for me to say that but I had high expectations based on a recommendation from another parent on this board. It was okay, but not worth standing in line for. In all fairness, my opinion is the outlier in my family. :) But like most places in the town of Oberlin, it was a homey, friendly, feel-good kind of place. But I've had better pancakes at Perkins. After breakfast, we sort of walked it off by strolling down to the Oberlin Art Museum. It is small but excellent. I highly recommend it. We passed an Easter Egg Hunt for kids that was taking place in Tappan Square but started at the main intersection in town. </p>

<p>Here's how my youngest daughter, the accepted student, felt about the college. She really, really likes it and does not seem put off by the idea of communal bathrooms, if that happens. I am put off by it, but I'm just the Dad. She commented how the kids at Oberlin are not "preppy" like Dickinson. Oberlin kids are more individualistic, open-minded, tolerant, and definitely nerdy, which I think she uses as a euphemism for "brainiacs." She very much prefers the culture at Oberlin to Penn State and Dickinson, the only other schools she is steriously considering. She loves the total absence of Greek life. She feels Oberlin is the right "fit" for her, but is still not 100% committed and won't say exactly why. I think it's because of the distance. Oberlin is the farthest of any of the 11 colleges to which she applied. It's a seven hour drive or a plane ride, which she is not keen on. She's never flown by herself. She's never been away from home. A part of her is very reluctant to be "out there" so far away from anybody she knows. I believe that is her fear, and I don't know how to approach the topic with her constructively. When I try, she refuses and changes the subject. </p>

<p>At this point, I'm not sure what she'll decide. She likes Dickinson well enough and loves the one hour and forty minute drive time from our house. She's just about ruled out Penn State, because she really wants Oberlin but is reluctant to make the leap. Dickinson is a fine school, but I'd hate to see her pass up Oberlin for reasons that have nothing to do with academics or campus culture or faculty or facilities and, instead, soley on distance.</p>

<p>Re: communal bathrooms–they exist, I used one, and there was nobody in there. No big deal.</p>

<p>Hm. Maybe she can visit by herself once and stay over night with a student and see how she feels about the plane when she’s on her own.</p>

<p>My S is at Williams, which is a four hour drive if we take the ferry across LI Sound into CT and then up to MA. If he takes public transportation, the bus into NYC is four hours and then the train to our home is two hours, with an hour in between to get from Port Authority to Penn Station. So all in all, in is seven hours also.</p>

<p>We usually drive him, but we can go round trip in one day, so that is an advantage.</p>

<p>My kids refused to consider Oberlin, but I think both would have loved it. They are east coasters through and through. I honestly think it would have done them good to get out of their bubble.</p>

<p>Oh, yeah, I think many of the bathrooms at Williams are coed. And the sophomore suite they are in is coed. The individual rooms are not, at least at this point.</p>

<p>Every college in the country I know of has coed bathrooms! (Williams, Yale, Harvard, Carleton, Amherst, Vassar, Columbia…)</p>

<p>Yeah, big deal! Plainsman, what’s your beef?!</p>

<p>I find that incredibly funny. Those ‘kids’ are adults. Why is that a culture of permissiveness? 18 year olds can be mature enough to vote, be sent to war, serve on juries, but they can’t shower with someone in the next stall over being of the opposite sex? If parents are truly shocked by that, maybe they should actually re-consider how mature their children are.</p>

<p>College is a time for change, for stretching, for establishing identity… not for replicating a parent’s life. </p>

<p>If you can give them love and wings, you’ve done your job well.</p>

<p>Cool report-- sorry you didn’t like Black River. </p>

<p>Re: co-ed bathrooms
Not a big deal, at all. It does help the opposite gender lose their mystique, but it makes the dorm more of a community. It’s nice to brush your teeth with everyone. Also, the policy is super democratic – if a single person doesn’t want coed bathroom, then the bathrooms go single sex.</p>

<p>Dave72, Radanie: My “hang-up” is age. I guess I’m old and old fashioned. :frowning: Funny, my parents called me wild and permissive when I was in college (compared to their day) :slight_smile: </p>

<p>quibbler: I did like Black River. I just didn’t think much of the pancakes. I only learned of Black River because another parent posted a message last week saying the pancakes specifically were awesome and I just had to go there. So I did. Perkins’ are better, and Perkins is nothing special. I’m sure I’ll go back and try something different on the menu, if my daughter decides to enroll at Oberlin.</p>

<p>quibbler: What’s wrong with a little mystique? ;)</p>

<p>I was also sort of concerned as a freshmen when my hallway had coed bathrooms and almost voted against it. However, it turned out that I definitely didn’t need to be worried. Everyone is definitely grown up enough that there were never any issues.</p>

<p>For what it’s worth, Plainsman, I’m old and old-fashioned enough that I think I might have trouble adjusting to coed bathrooms too. But the important thing is that students–like the two who’ve posted above–seem to take it in stride. There may be a slightly nervous first few days, but after that they seem to regard it as no more of an issue than opposite-sex siblings who share a bathroom. There are shower curtains, and doors on the toilet stalls, and people respect each other’s comfort zones. There’s nothing “risque” about it.</p>

<p>Thanks Dave. I suppose I need to relax a bit with regard to this issue. It just makes my wife and I nervous, although our daughter seems to have the same attitude as the currrent students who have posted comments on this thread. She does not appear to be alarmed at all. Frankly, I’m surprised by her attitude.</p>

<p>But I have to tell you, at the parents’ session on Friday, some parents’ faces went absolutely ashen when this topic came out. Jaws dropped. I"m not kidding.</p>

<p>As an Oberlin alum who lived with co-ed bathrooms for four years, I thought I’d add my two cents to this thread.</p>

<p>First, despite what the TV show Ally McBeal led us all to believe in the late '90s, there is nothing sexy or romantic about what goes on in a dorm bathroom. Quite the opposite, in fact.</p>

<p>The impetus is convenience. Most halls start out with a men’s bathroom and a women’s bathroom. Students appreciate the option to convert them into co-ed bathrooms because it increases the proximity of “the closest bathroom” for half of the residents on a given hall. It also levels the playing field in terms of shower wait time - let’s say all the women in a given hall happen to have a 9AM class on Monday and none of the men do. They appreciate having twice the number of showers for the inevitable last-minute rush.</p>

<p>When I was a student (and I assume this holds true now) this was all determined by an anonymous vote. As Quibbler pointed out, it was not a majority-wins vote - if any single resident wished for the bathrooms to remain same-sex, they would. It was no big deal either way - no one ever tried to sniff out who voted in a certain way. (Oberlin students have a great deal of respect for one another - it’s always been one of my favorite things about the school.)</p>

<p>Here’s another thing that I haven’t seen mentioned - in my day, co-ed bathrooms would have a sign on the door (one side co-ed, the other side single-sex). If a resident had a guest who happened to be uncomfortable with the idea, or a parent visiting, or simply had a personal situation that would benefit from some additional privacy (we’ve all been there), he or she would just flip the sign and voila - single sex bathroom.</p>

<p>I guess my main point here is that the Oberlin community is very careful to ensure that its residents feel safe and comfortable, and this situation is no different. Co-ed bathrooms are really nothing to be worried (or excited) about.</p>

<p>Thanks, Plainsman, for your trip report. The bathroom thing bothered me when I heard about it six years ago–but this was when a friend had a daughter at Connecticut College and it was their policy. Since then, I’ve come to see that it actually facilitiates some respect for privacy in opposite genders. I have never heard of it becoming an issue, and my son (who comes from an all-boy-except-mom fam) doesn’t even think about it. </p>

<p>When we visited for our audition day, I was struck by how genuinely friendly the students were, without exception. From greeting me in the bookstore to two lovely upperclass ladies who worked in music admissions sitting with me impromptu to discuss life at Oberlin (because an info session wasn’t available) I was very impressed by how welcome everyone made us feel.</p>

<p>Plainsman: What’s wrong with a little mystique? </p>

<p>Well… Hallmates are family. Having the feminine/masculine mystique hanging over them is weird, because they’re all like cousins to me. When I’m at home with my parents, there’s no men’s room or women’s room, just the bathrooms. It’s nice to have it the same way at college.</p>

<p>Also, as benjones pointed out, it’s just so convenient. I really don’t want to walk to another hallway to use the ladies’ room at 3:00AM. I want to use the closest bathroom.</p>

<p>Also, I apologize if that sounded like an attack on you, Plainsman–your report of your visit to Oberlin was very fair. I just find it frustrating to hear how many parents are still shocked by something like that. At the end of my first year at Oberlin, my mother came to take me home, and was stunned to discover the same sex bathrooms in my dorm. There is an atmosphere of respect and (mostly) maturity here that results in things like that simply not being a big deal for the students.</p>

<p>The way I look at it, she could at this age, plus or minus a year, go get married without my permission. And if I envisioned myself in the role of Great Protector, at this stage of the game, there have probably been some other goings on I don’t really care to know about that make the bathroom issue rather trivial in any event.</p>

<p>My D’s & S all share a bathroom at home.</p>

<p>I just thought she’s a big girl and can handle herself, if she knows what the deal is with the bathrooms & wants to go ahead, that’s up to her. </p>

<p>YMMV and all that.</p>

<p>There was a time many years ago when Oberlin was indeed at the vanguard of the coed dorm movement, as a recent commencement speaker reminded us. But now this is quite common. And even if it wasn’t, there are bigger issues in the grand scheme of things. Kind of surprising that these people would, at this late stage of the game, be shocked about this. Hopefully their kids already knew. IMO, they did not need to get all exercised about something that the actual participants consider completely inconsequential.</p>

<p>quibbler, I take it from your last post that you are a female? I value a woman’s opinion in this situation more than a man’s. I was a teenager once, and I would have LOVED coed bathrooms and showers, for all the wrong exploding hormones, ridiculous expectations reasons. Blame the mystique thing back in the day. However, my sisters never would’ve agreed to such an arrangement no matter the college. It was a different time. </p>

<p>I realize times change. Using the same bathroom at college is less of an issue than the following scenario which is really what uptight parents like me envision:</p>

<p>“Female student (could be my daughter) is brushing her teeth at the sink. Male student emerges from the shower buck naked and strolls up to the sink to stand next to said female student and (fill in ___ combing hair, brushing teeth, examining his equipment)”</p>

<p>That’s the nightmare scenario some of us parents can envision. Is this what happens? </p>

<p>Even at home, sons and daughters post puberty don’t cavort naked in front of each other, although they do use the same bathroom. If you wouldn’t expose yourself to a sibling of the opposite sex, why would it be okay to do so to a stranger (with whom there is no mutual carnal interest)? Am I imagining the worst that never happens?</p>

<p>Hm. College kids have sex. More or less depending on the person. But I think coed bathrooms discourage sexual interest in each other. I know that my S at Williams wouldn’t have thought of hooking up with (well he doesn’t do that – he’s the long term relationship kind of a guy) or dating someone from his entry.</p>

<p>As one of the other students said, they’re like cousins to each other. They get to know each other really well and are protective of each other.</p>

<p>My D is at an all women’s college, Barnard, where of course this was not an issue. But she spent her junior year in London as a flat mate of three boys. School make this housing arrangement. They all shared the bathroom no problem. Have no idea what states of undress they saw each other in. Don’t care. No canoodling ensured, though they were protective of D and screened her guys. Don’t think feminist D liked that at all!</p>

<p>And now to build on what I said before…</p>

<p>I am not an Oberlin student, just someone who (like you) visited this weekend and stayed with a friend of mine from HS. Where I stayed–the Afrikan Heritage House–I only saw two bathrooms; the one with the women’s sign on the door was right by my room, but the men’s bathroom was on the complete opposite side of the building, on an entirely different floor. Getting from one to the other would’ve been like navigating a maze. I’m pretty sure they were both co-ed despite the signs on the doors–I know the one with the men’s sign on it was, because I used it, but I never saw any guys in the women’s one. Honestly? It was all blatantly for convenience’s sake. I was up nearer the men’s bathroom for most of my stay, meeting my host’s friends, and had I had to walk all the way through the bulding just to pee it would’ve been a vastly more annoying arrangement.</p>

<p>Not sure how coherent that is, but it’s my $0.02. :)</p>