My son, who is a rising senior, attends a small high school music conservatory part-time. One of the most valuable lessons his composition/music theory instructor has taught the students is that composers need to have a source of regular income; his is through real estate rentals. My son has no illusions that he will be wealthy from music composition (though maybe one day! 
). All he really wants is to write music that gets performed. He has said several times he would have no qualms about becoming a plumber! 
This is a minefield that many performers have to navigate once leaving school. And sometimes Iâve noted itâs the most prestigous institutions that will pay the leastâŚbc you get their nameâŚlol. You should be grateful to be slave labor for them! The answer to large instition should be no, imho. Small groups/friends are different.
I think many people are aware of this âno payâ or âpay to play/singâ situation on this site after graduation. I have no advice except to sayâŚmake sure your student has good mentors and good peers. Thatâs how my D figured it out. Mentors and peers walked her through the good, the bad and the ugly (no pay). She wasnât afraid to talk money with them. A network can let you know the expectations for each type of performance area.
Good luck composers!
My kid is okay because their attitude is similar to that of @MammaBerd 's son (love that post!). I have a friend who was a visual artist who worked as an electrician and another who worked at IHOP for 20 years- both were eventually âdiscovered.â
The main change in recent years is that there are fewer academic positions in humanities/arts/music, and more adjunct positions in general. Academia used to be a refuge for composers. But there is no reason why that should be the only path.
Now a question might be whether the PhD that so many composers spend years attaining, makes you qualified for non-academic jobs (so far, yes) or makes you overqualified.
I see composers working in administrative jobs at music schools, running festivals or music organizations like New Music USA, directing ensembles and why not do real estate or plumbing? It helps if composers can play or conduct, of course.
Heard one composer made $1500 in royalties from a symphony commission that was not paid (composer was almost done PhD). Royalties from smaller ensemble piece were $200.
This seems discussion to be getting even muddier.
(@compmom - I am just using your comment here as an example of some the discussion above. Not trying to be offensive or negate the more extensive discussion and context youâve provided.): âMy kid (PhD) just got a commission from musicians who are indeed paying her, but the musicians obtained a grant.â
Of course, a commissioned work is paid for by the performers or whoever commissioned the work. I think this sort of commission payment is being confused with license and copyright laws and payments that flow through to composers from those agreements. As I posted above, performers (to my knowledge and experience) are not the party required to obtain a license to perform a work in a venue where they have been hired.
There are also concerns with copyright when posting to YouTube or other media that performing musicians should be aware of - but often arenât.
Once you get to royalties etc, I do have to jump off the trainâŚas my knowledge is pretty basic. But I get what you are saying @Musicaspirant. Income sources are varied and do need to be specified. In my mind, a musician paying a composer via a grant is different than out-of-pocket. The income source (grant) is more official and would most likely be documented (probably a 1099). If a musician pays a composer a few hundred out of their pocket, it should be documented for tax purposes (but may not be particularly for low amts). We donât want to get into tax talk but income source matter and need to be tracked properly by artists.
BUT why I really came back here was to say: I was just reading about the writer/screen actor strike and noticing parallels with this discussion. The âstreamingâ world seems like the âwild Wild Westâ for creativesâŚwhere the big dogs eat the little ones for breakfast. Heavy sigh.
I posted an article about commissions. @SpiritManager introduced a different way that composers might get paid- royalties- and I was demonstrating that, aside from orchestral performances, royalties are pretty low if paid at all.
Commissions are also generally low (see the link with the chart) and 37% of the time, no payment is received at all.
To me, there is on confusion between commissions and royalties. In my experience, musicians do sometimes pay commissions. I have no idea about royalties so @SpiritManager can clarify. You say âperformersâŚare not the party required to obtain a license to perform a work in a venue where they have been hiredâ but in our experience, musicians often hire the venue, not the other way around.
I think the muddiness comes when we are discussing such a wide range of musical performances, genres and venues and the New Music USA article did not clarify that. I would say their constituency is, obviously, ânew musicâ in the classical realm, which is still a wide range.
You mentioned online media. Another realm is albums. An independent album company asked to make an album for my kid, which won a âbest ofâ award and got good reviews. The total proceeds for my kid might have been $50 tops.
Composers have always had another source of income, most of them anyway. Traditionally it was in academia. That is where the big change has happened. People are going to have to be more flexible in their ideas of how to support themselves, in my view, and that is doable.
Sorry to confuse everyone. Yes, an individual musician/performer neednât pay any membership fees. HOWEVER, an ensemble really should. Then it doesnât matter what venue they perform at - and whether that space is paying into the system or not. They can perform in a park, a zoo, a church, a bar, a school - and the composers will get royalties. And, for lots of New Music the ensembles truly are the presenters - theyâre the ones putting on the show - and the venue itself is secondary. @Musicaspirant mentions performing for hire - if thatâs the case, then indeed, the musicians are not the presenter. Yet often new ensembles are the presenter - they may pay a fee to use a space for the performance, or maybe thatâs donated. In these cases the ensembles should be paying into the BMI/ASCAP pool.
If an ensemble is performing music from the last 50 years they will be doing the composers a favor - especially if they have a program of some sort they can submit! Possibly the venue where the performance takes place also pays in - it just increases the pool.
There is a difference in how this is handled between commercial music and classical music - royalties are not determined the same way.
I suspect many of Compmomâs friends have their work performed by ensembles which do not pay dues. One does make less money if works are performed at colleges, as well. Or are shorter works, or performed for small groups for free. (Performances at a college where one is a student doesnât count.) It all makes a difference. But it really isnât dependent on only having oneâs work performed by large institutions.
The other problem for composers are that, at least for BMI, they really need programs to submit for proof of performance. Lots of small new music concerts donât have programs. Then it requires more effortâŚ
@bridgenail Musical Theater, and opera, and dance are considered Grand Performance Rights - and there are no royalties. Instead ALL the money comes from the presenter directly to the composer in those cases. No performance royalties at all.
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ps @musicaspirant why is this confusing? This comment is about a commission paid to a composer by an ensemble who did the work of getting a grant so they could pay the composer. This is, to me, walking the walk in terms of valuing peer composers who are doing work for you. This has nothing to do with royalties.
Sorry, sorry, @compmom! Your statement was not confusing at all - that is why I picked it for differentiation between commission type payments vs payments paid to composers from venues that should be ASCAP licensed vs. royalties.
I felt there was confusion in the thread between different types of payments and where the composers derived their income from - commissions vs. royalties vs. hired by venue. I was trying to point that out, but seems I further muddied the issue.
No problem! My kid doesnât go into detail so I have learned a few things here.
The actors and writers strike as well as the strikes by adjuncts/part time profâs/grad student teaching assistants all come to mind somehow. Add to that the nursesâ aides taking care of elderly parents. who need a union! All kinds of hard work is not paid adequately.
Artists of all kinds are happiest when creating and find a way to do it, I believe.
@Musicaspirant I actually think you clarified things well!
If you can get the work!! People turn up their nose at it, but many others are clambering⌠writing pops music is a thing like writing concert music, or video game music. Most folks usually are arrangers as well as composers. Yet another option
The bulk of the composerâs income is from sales/music rentals. Not a lot comes from ASCAP/BMI (Unless the number of performances is in the 100s), and rarely does a composer get an additional appearance fee when their music is performed (unless youâre john adams or phillip glass). Maybe a gratis flight and ticket to the concert⌠not enough to write home about. Those numbers are based on the size of the orchestra and # of people in the hall/venue. For example, an orchestra piece rented by a community orchestra will rent for $400, while the same work rented by the Nashville Symphony (or other AA orchestra in the US) would be $800-$1200. So the same piece of music keeps making money in a variety of ways. That same kind of pricing goes for ASCAP/BMI royalties (more money for larger venues/orchestras). Also something to consider: ASCAP stopped paying royalties on university performances, which means⌠NO $$ FOR CONCERT BAND PERFORMANCES! That is a huge market, and all the band composers jumped ship and went to BMI, as they still pay.
At least that is my experience, and I make a decent living as a composer.
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@DrPrimo it seems your experience is mostly orchestral and you live in a bit of a different world than many of the ânew musicâ composers I know. You may also be more successful! The idea of repeat performances making money is a good one but many composers donât have that many.
@oboemom just because someone can write a string quartet (say, on the experimental side) doesnât mean they are able to write something âpopular.â I think genres are more transferable for musicians. Composers with PhDâs have spent 9-12 years honing their âvoiceâ and it is just a really different skill than writing popular material, for many.
It is encouraging @DrPrimo that you make a living as a composer. I wonder if you also teach.
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I think my post might have been confusing. I was just saying that many classical musicians would prefer not to play pops classical music. Just having this conversation with the musicians in my family. More fun and exciting for the musicians to play a Tchaikovsky symphony than a sing along pops tune arranged for the orchestra. But not only do the pops tunes help pay the bills, those concerts are often what bring newer audiences (families and children) to see and appreciate classical music. And keeps the music flowing!
Many orchestra concerts I have attended recently have featured a new composition as part of their program. I think this is a great way to introduce new composers and their work. Iâll admit that I am not as familiar with small ensemble experimental compositions.
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Thanks @compmom. Believe it or not, orchestral music is considered ânew musicâ! The same composers are getting their music played not just by orchestras, but also by string quartets etc. and lots of folks are getting repeat performances⌠maybe not 100s, but definitely many each season. The more you get your music out there and available for people to listen to (Spotify, YouTube, your personal website), the more it gets performed and programmed. I do teach, but privately and selectively.
I also write for film and TV, which is another nut to crack and probably another discussion. I will say there are MANY ways to make money as a trained composer in addition to writing ânew musicâ: music engraver, orchestrator, arranger, music tech (helping others with the massive amounts of tech in their studios), composer assistant, working in a performance venue, the list goes on.
I will say this: If a person has dedicated themselves to the craft to write concert music to earn a DMA/Ph.D., then they can, by all means, write POPS music⌠the question is do they want to. Most POPS arrangers and composers, like Peter Boyer, for example, are incredibly successful and are also trained composers. I will also add, that most performing organizations (orchestras, venues, etc) make the bulk of their money through POPS-type concerts. Itâs the only thing really keeping orchestras and venues alive at the moment. So the shame of writing music for POPS concerts, or arranging, or writing music for movies, etc. is quickly fading. Look at Michal Ables. Just won the Pulitzer Prize and only came to his fame from writing the music for the movie âGet Outâ. Before that, he was just one of âusâ, a composer getting commissions, performances, etc. but not big time. That movie put him on the map, and he immediately started getting life-changing commissions like The Met, etc. So the days of being a super snob are kind of over. Again, just my 2¢.
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@DrPrimo of course orchestral music is sometimes ânew music,â thanks for clarifying⌠though not that often and I think it generally still tends to the conservative and certainly not to the experimental. But yeah things are loosening up. Some of the young composers (PhDâs) donât want to deal with âcapitalistâ orchestral organizations!
I think the older academics are the most âsnobbyâ toward other genres besides classical but that is changing in academia over time. Just looking at the Harvard curricular changes is encouraging, as one example- there are many. The average kid who uses a digital audio work station in high school, does not have access to musicians or conservatory prep- but has talent and potential- needs to be served well in music departments. I heard from one student at a certain new program for âmusic for new mediaâ that they left because the traditional composition students looked down on them. This needs to change.
There is a reluctance to talk about money as if it somehow vulgar-? I appreciate and agree with the longish list you posted about ways for composers to make money. They can also have a day job.
The one thing I disagree with, but I could be wrong, is that, say an experimental âclassicalâ composer could easily transition to writing a pop song. I am just not sure that is true. It might be true for some. But some composers write what they hear in their head, so to speak, and that may be the only thing they can write. Interesting to ponder.
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What can I say⌠Iâve been a working composer in all areas of the business for 20 years and I disagree with your assessment.
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Nothing to disagree with. As I wrote, it might be true for some but not all!