Do medical school students in the same class at the same med school generally know each other’s STEP-1/2 test scores? Do they know who carry “big” student loans and who are free of any student loans? (excluding those in the MD/PhD program of course.)
I heard that once in college, nobody cares about their SAT scores. But the STEP-1 and “student loans” may influence their life in a more significant way so it is more likely that they are in their mind. But do they share with each other about these “concerns” or they think these are too private to share with each other. (But isn’t true also true that med school students are very close to each other due to the fact they spend a lot of time together on a daily basis?)
I would guess the couple participating in the couple match would know about each other’s, even though they are very unromantic topics.
I would think, MCAT2, that it is very personal, some people share details with their friends and some don’t and then some stories get passed on to other non-friends, they may or may not be true. Joe has $500k in student loans or Joe has $0 in student loans may be inaccurate
One student tells one student his/her score, or tells his/her roommates, or tells those within the group he/she hangs out with, and they tell others, etc is the probable pathway that students learn of other student’s scores. I’d guess the higher the score, the more quickly someone’s score gets passed along.
As to debt, I don’t think it’s a hot topic that is regularly discussed between students.
D1 said that there is no expectation of sharing STEP scores. You can if you want to, but mostly it’s considered a private matter and no one one asks. And no one brags. Ever. Totally not cool and not professional. People will say they passed, or that they got a good score, but that’s about it. You might discuss it with a close friend, but not with everyone. There’ll be some guessing going on, however, because once Step 1 scores come out, people start looking at different potential specialties.
And maybe because D1 attends a state school with a low COA, but loans really aren’t something that people talk about.
The girls say they do know who are doing NHSC, HPSP and the state primary care scholarship programs since all of those have requirements the student needs to start fulfilling during MS3-4. Also people are pretty up-front about saying they’re in those programs.
But there’s always some gossip & speculation going on. Like just who is paying the tuition of the med student who drives the new red Ferrari to campus. (Answer–it’s not her Daddy….)
Thanks. It is just because of my curiosity, not that I have to know.
This reminds me of this: When DS was in middle school, one of his classmates did not want anybody to know any of his test scores. Some middle schoolers at that age seem to think he is somewhat strange because most other kids at that age do not care that much about that kind of school stuff. (Some of them may care more about how their peers perceive them at that age.)
D. is done with specialty interviews and has one more phone interview with prelim program on Monday.
she met prelim resident who had 12 specialty interviews and DID NOT match. At first she thought that there is something wrong with this resident, like personality, but she happened to be nice and very normal person. Getting S C A R I E R by the minute. The only thing we can do until March 20 is not to think about it.
D. also sent us a match example that covers several situations and it is very helpful. It shows that although ranking starts with the applicant preference, ultimately, it is the program ranking that will determine placement.
Unfortunately it is a pdf, otherwise, I would have included the the link. Here are considerations at the bottom of this PDF
CONSIDERATIONS
• Use The Match to to your advantage by ranking all acceptable programs to maximize their chances for a match. It is smart to rank programs in order of preference and not based on where you believed you might match.
• It is real risk to rank only one program. Unmatched applicants have shorter lists on the average than matched applicants. Short lists increase the likelihood of being unmatched.
• It is a violation of the rules of The Match to insisti that applicants inform program how they intended to rank the program, Ranking decisions should be made in private and without pressure. Both applicants and program directors may try to influence decisions in their favor, but neither can force the other to make a binding commitment before the Match
D. is planning to send her preferences this weekend, but still cannot decide between 2 prelim programs.
Is that one of the competitive specialties? Or, did she only interview at top programs (even though the specialty itself could be not that competitive if not a top program or not a program at a highly sought-after location)?
I learned from the Internet that the neurology could be less competitive than (for example) IM recently if the interview list consists of mostly top or mid-level programs. But I could be wrong here. (How would I know?!)
There are lots of reasons why people don’t match. Applying only to top programs or competitive specialties is just one reason.
Programs are about “fit”–PDs are looking for students who are good match both academically and personality-wise to their program. A “nice normal person” might be fine match for Program Z, but might lack the gritty intensity expected for Program Q.
Adding to above:
According to NRMP 2014 PD survey (figure 2), the 3 top reasons in deciding to RANK (not interview) are:
Interactions with faculty during interview and visit
Interpersonal skills
Interactions with house staff during interview and visit
Although talking about med school interviews, I’ve posted below link before about LizzyM (post 10) commenting about how people come across in med school interviews: “Terrible: creepy, scary, condescending and rude to the staff, aggressive to the point of unpleasantness, poor verbal and non-verbal communication (monosyllabic answers, no eye contact”;
or how they can like Miami’s D (At first she thought that there is something wrong with this resident, like personality, but she happened to be nice and very normal person)
LizzyM (post 12): You are lucky! They are rare birds and you may not spot them in the waiting area. Or they do not display there weird behavior in the presence of other applicants but act weird in someone’s office such as pushing their chair very close to the interviewer’s desk, putting both arms on the desk and staring at the interviewer in an unblinking manner. Or asking the Dean, “Have you been saved? Unless you’ve been saved by the blood of Jesus, you really can’t understand what I’m talking about.” Those guys might have looked completely normal to you on the interview trail but not to us.
In above PD survey: I forgot to add fourth top reason in deciding to RANK:
Feedback from current residents
Those dinners night/day of interview are important. I know S reported after one evening dinner, next AM, PD had report on from residents attending previous night’s dinner
There is usually a grapevine at schools like the one your son is attending. Only few of her closest friends knew D’s MCAT score but it it reached an acquitance in her med school whose mother congratulated us locally because her son texted it to her. Small world…
There’s a range of scores for students accepted in each specialty–which means there’s a lot of score overlap among specialties.
Also consider that some physicians chose less competitive specialties because they like the field. (My PCP is AOA from a top 10 med school. He could have entered any specialty he chose, but he likes primary care.)
I am guessing this is not always true for those in the lower average STEP 1 score programs, i.e., one can’t assume everyone chose those fields only because of their low scores. I see a psychiatry range of 210 to 230 but I know of someone scoring in the 255+ range choosing to do psychiatry, similar to wowmom’s PCP.
“applying outside the region where their med school is located”
-As a huge surprize to us (parents) and D., thank goodness that she applied way outside of our region and way outside of her own comfort zone. If she listened to all very credible advisors in very high national positions, people who she greatly respects and listened a lot in a past, well, if she listened to them in regard to residency application, she would be in a misearable position now. There is no guarantee with any number of interviews, but she had a certain goal for the number of interviews for both specialty and prelim. And while she applied regionally for prelims, she applied very widely to specilty and as a result she reached her goal for the number plus 2, while several regionals either rejceted her or ignored her application.
In regard to away rotations, they normally result in at least “curtesy” interview. D. did not have any away rotations, but another applicant who had (not sure about number), as far as I rmember 5 away rotations was able to recieve 20 invites to specialty interviews and attended 18 (as her schedue permitted).
Based on the charts, there is a correlation between the number of interviews/ranked programs and the rate of matching. I guess, person who ranks 18 programs will have a greater chance at matching somewhere than person who ranks 12.
For The Match, 11 is the “magic” number. According to Match statistics, if you rank 11 programs, you have a very high chance of matching. (98% I think?) Adding additional ranks past 11 does not increase one chance of matching due to the relative weighting of the student’s rank list.
^Well, again, it goes back to D. meeting a prelim resident who did not match to specialty after ranking 12 programs (I used 12 based on this specific example). Absolutely nothing was wrong with this resident, as D. commented she simply fell thru the cracks of the matching process. It is impossible to say at this point if she would match if she could rank 18 instead of 12.
…I wish this example is erased from my head, but it is popping up from time to time… more sad after I imagine D. talking to this resident and now it is imprinted in D’s head.
I think this issue has been discussed or at least danced around (esp by jugulator and miami), but the Match does “favor the applicant” and thus it is in the applicant’s best interest to rank programs based on the applicant’s true preference, not based on where the applicant thinks they will match or perhaps where they have received the most “love” from.
What I mean by “favor the applicant” is that the algorithm does whatever possible to give the applicant the most favorable choice. You can see this at work on that “run a match” feature on the NRMP website. The basic idea is that the algorithm works to find an available spot at the applicant’s most preferred program. So even if the applicant is at the bottom of their #1’s rank list, as long as the spot is available, it’s theirs. Even if they were at the top of their #2’s rank list (thus indicating that #2 program preferred the applicant more than the #1 program did), they will end up at #1 as long as there is room. (So in effect, this opens up a position at #2 for someone else who would prefer it more.) In this way, it is always in the applicant’s best interest to rank all programs they would be willing to attend in the order they would most prefer to attend them.
As for me, we’re working on 2-6ish. It’s a fun challenge to figure out how to weigh relative strengths of programs/departments and location. I have received some reassuring “love” from some of my favorite programs, including the most love from my most fav, which is awesome but terrifying too! haha.
