<p>Could be fun to be flies on the wall at this conference ...</p>
<p>Absolutely agree, Donemom. I'd like to think that the schools give you a chance to communicate what they need to know about you without making freelancing necessary.</p>
<p>Coincidentally, I just read this question on another forum here:</p>
<p>"I plan to submit a resume with my common app, and, well... in short:</p>
<p>I was 89th percentile the past 2 years in the National German Exam (where 90th percentile is the cutoff for the award) should I mention this, or leave it off? I ask because I won recognition freshman yr, and when I read that (pretending to myself that I am an adcom) all I can think is: why only freshman year?"</p>
<p>And I think that this is the kind of guessing and reguessing and questioning that this topic leads to. My S won a Latin Exam Silver Medal freshman year, and never again. It truly never occurred to him, or me, to wonder what an adcom would think. But we're quirky that way (though I think not nuts.)</p>
<p>Of course if I were there (at the conference) I might want to ask Lee why he didn't like my sweet daughter while Bill did. (Kidding ...)</p>
<p>Garland: </p>
<p>If the form has space for only 2-3 college courses and you took 8-9, then the space is not enough; and if you did not provide information on all 8-9 courses, then you did not provide enough information to the college to truly evaluate you. If the college asks what major awards you have won, and again there is not enough space to list them all, then you should attach information. If the college asks you to list the 3 most important activities then you should list the 3 most important activities and not 9-10. It really depends.</p>
<p>I've probably overstayed my welcome on this thread, but I do think "continued on other side" or something like that to finish a list, is not what I gather most people here are talking about when they took about resumes. But hey, I could be wrong.</p>
<p>Hey, we could all be wrong. It may all depend on the school and/or the admissions officer as to what is liked. Heck, maybe Lee Stetson hates resumes and that's why my daughter didn't get in there. Or ... maybe if she'd agreed with Mom and developed a more extensive one ...</p>
<p>Nah...</p>
<p>Garland:</p>
<p>When my S saw that the space provided would not be enough, he decided to do a resume. It seemed neater to have all the information on one sheet than to have several (continued from item #...) sections. I got the Katherine Cohen book and decided the format was real overkill. His resume was a one-page one, supplemented by the catalog description of the courses that were listed. </p>
<p>He used the same resume for his interviews and both interviewers read it and used it to guide the discussion.</p>
<p>Garland, you, me and Calmom will have to nurse a latte knowing that there will always be people who make something more complicated or wordy than it needs to be.</p>
<p>BTW-- the implication that med school and grad school admissions people won't know the degree of difficulty of a program of study at a major university is absolutely absurd. These people do this for a living. </p>
<p>Garland-- welcome to Lake Wobegon.</p>
<p>"Xig, Well, even if one feels that way about her, she DID design a nice brag sheet! Also, she's not the only one recommending these, as Susan points out!"</p>
<p>Rosh, do not let my opinion of Cohen's dishonesty cloud the value of adding an activity list. Guided by the notion that school expect to see the MOST important activities, I do support such lists but ... within moderation. </p>
<p>Many things that Cohen wrote fall along the lines of good advice. Michelle Hernandez has a book with a similar title (Acing the College Application: How to Maximize Your Chances for Admission to the College of Your Choice) and also advocates the use of a lengthy attachment. </p>
<p>However, one has to remember that the examples used in the books are inching towards the extremes. For instance, the candidate with the huge brag sheet in Hernandez' book had a very eclectic background that most common people would be hard pressed to match. For my taste, the example was too "much of a good thing" but it worked for the student. </p>
<p>This process is very subjective and should remain invidualized. I would not be surprised that the same list gets kudos at one school and yawns at another. We have seen that with essays. Conn College openly advocates the submission of essays that go against the common advice on essays -I have described the Conn College essays nauseatingly Fabio-esque. So, one could expect that the same list of activities would also receive a different reception in New London than in New Haven. At least, one could hope so!</p>
<p>Quote:"the implication that med school and grad school admissions people won't know the degree of difficulty of a program of study at a major university is absolutely absurd. These people do this for a living."</p>
<p>Well, I have to admit that when I asked my son about this, he said the same thing! But since all three levels of the same physics topic have extremely similar names (but are numbered, like 110, 112, and 115), I still have my doubts. But hey, I guess I have trouble trusting in these situations...I'm not like garland, who assumes that the schools know how much space is needed to tell every story...</p>
<p>I think there's an inherent bias for the college counselors (Hernandez, Cohen, etc.). They are charging big bucks for their services and the parents who are paying them would not be too happy if the advice was to just fill out the common app form as is.</p>
<p>
S would be an example contrary to that theory. But I'm sure getting the nod from Bill was some <em>small</em> consolation! :)</p>
<p>The Cohen format worked for my son because he had some significant summer and work experiences. IMO, the length of the thing was not a big deal at all. The format made this very easy on the eyes and much easier to read and scan than the average resume. I think it's the format itself that makes the thing longer than it really reads -there are not that many words if you really wanted to add the thing up, but organizing activites and awards in chart form takes up room.</p>
<p>"But I'm sure getting the nod from Bill was some <em>small</em> consolation!"</p>
<p>Yep. :)</p>
<p>Actually, Donemom, I don't think med schools care what exact Physics courses someone takes. And grad schools would only care if you're majoring in physics, in which case they probably already have a passing aquaintance with Harvard physics courses.</p>
<p>Anyhoo, different strokes, etc. We just like to live dangerously, I guess...:)</p>
<p>Garland, it isn't about the physics course per se for med school (hey, he already had two AP physics classes in high school with 5's that would take care of the pre-med requirement,) it's about their being able to assess the meaning of the choice of taking this class as well as the grade (like in high school, the difference, say, between an AP class vs an honors class vs a regular class). The fact that my son got an A at this level should be very meaningful, I would hope. See, we keep coming back to the issue of creating a picture of someone, in terms of interests, willingness to challenge oneself, and intellectual ability. So knowing the details about that particular course contributes to painting that picture.</p>
<p>off-topic,</p>
<p>I think parents should check out the College Admissions recommended reading list</p>
<p>Donemom, I know this "picture of someone" approach is good for undergrad (I believe my S's self shown through his apps, distilled as it was to fit the space) but I'm not at all persuaded that this is going to be true in med school applications. You apply through the AMCAS program, and they pretty much tell you what they want, and then send it on. Again, though, it can't hurt, so why not, right?</p>
<p>Donemom:</p>
<p>My understanding is that, for graduate school (not med school about which I know less), there really is no limit on what an applicant may submit. In fact, admissions committees for certain departments will look askance at applications that do not include a writing sample. For the cv, however, it is not so much the courses taken that count, but the research or work experience. So, when applying to some departments, someone who has spent time in a foreign country will probably have an edge over someone who did stellar work in courses but does not have the same experience living in a different culture. Someone with a range of languages also would have an advantage. Recommendations, statements of purpose, all these count for a lot. The statement of purpose is more important than the college application essay because it maps out the applicant's program for the next few years and permits committees to see if there is a fit between the applicant and the department's resources, if the applicant has researched the faculty's interests or just applied at random because of the school's name. In some cases, grades as such may be somewhat less important. And of course, we need to take into account the individual idiosyncracies of the people who make up admissions committees.</p>
<p>Med school admissions are formulaic in the extreme apart from relevant work experience and the interview/reccomendations. A philosphy major and a physics major with the same GPA and MCAT scores enter the process on the same playing field. If the philosophy major spent a year working in the Sudan at a field hospital on a maternal health grant, the philosphy major is in a stronger position than the physics major (all things being equal) despite the heavily annotated course list the physics major presents. Med schools like to see evidence that prospective student knows what medicine is about.... and all the high level physics courses in the world don't demonstrate that, given that the amount of math and physics a med student needs could be capably taught at virtually any college in the world.</p>
<p>But hey, knock yourselves out.</p>
<p>We're getting a bit off topic.</p>