<p>Most of the LACs that D is interested in require two SAT subject level tests. Because one school requires 3 tests and another indicated a preference for a quantitative test, D took Math level 2 a few weeks ago. Unfortunately, D completed trig in her sophomore year and didnt make the time to refresh her memory. She scored only 690. </p>
<p>The rest of my Ds app will be pretty strong: SAT1 of 2260 (including a 780 in Math); 760 SAT2 History; 710 SAT2 Spanish; 4 in AP calc; 4 in AP US History. </p>
<p>Her top three choices are Swarthmore, Wellesley, and Grinnell, but she also will apply to Williams and some less competitive schools. She knows she could score much better in the level 2 math test, but she has very limited spare time. (She is completing a full IB diploma and plays two sports. She is not, however, a strong enough athlete that the schools will dip their standards for her.) </p>
<p>Should she make time and re-test in December?</p>
<p>hmmmm....My thought is that if you expect that her schore will increase without having to spend much time prepping, she should consider retaking to get over the 700 mark.....she's soooo close. Maybe it's just me, but having 700 levels scores just seems significantly diffferent from 600 level scores, even if we're only talking 10-20 points.</p>
<p>I don't know how much time she actually has available......retesting in December is tough cause she is also finishing apps and finishing a semester (and these grades are important)....that said, if she is comfortable that she knows how to study for it and refresh the underlying math, keeping in mind the 780 on the math SAT, my thought is to go for the test in Dec......especially for a Williams application... </p>
<p>nice work from your daughter so far.....is she applying early to Swarthmore? that may also increase her chances....</p>
<p>She would have to prep and crack open the trig and geometry books again, so it would take some time. D took calc in her Junior year and is taking a calc/stats class now. Her algebra is still very strong, but geometry and trig have kind of dimmed from memory. She really wants the whole testing thing to be done and I can't blame her. On the other hand, she hasn't retaken a single test yet, so she has had an easier than average college testing experience.</p>
<p>I agree with the others: prepping for this test will probably take little time away from her other demands, and I think from what you say, it's likely she'll get over that 700 hurdle. Then, her overall profile will look consistent, which I think ups her chances at those top schools you mentioned.</p>
<p>Just needs a refresher. Suggest picking up one of the review books instead of texts. The Collegeboard Real SATII's, and one of the standard prep books, Barrons, PR, Kaplan, et al. Just 15 minutes a day could do it.</p>
<p>Oh rats. I thought this is what you would recommend. I think you are right, but the kid really is booked tight between her sports, community service, and school and I was hoping people would say "never mind." My sense is that she really is a reasonable, but not overwhelming, candidate for these schools and that a 700 or more would look so much better. </p>
<p>Maineparent, no she isn't applying ED. Financial aid is a consideration.</p>
<p>Californian,
Strong math students generally do VERY well on the SAT Math II, as in many get 800 and high 700's. I am in agreement that this might not require as much prep/refresher time as she might think. When my S was applying ED to Swarthmore, he had already taken 5 SAT II's. (This was still in the days of score choice.) When he asked his college counselor which three scores to submit, she told him to send all 5 since they were all well over 700. Somehow, it's a little magic number for the schools you are thinking about.</p>
<p>I honestly don't think re-taking the SATII is necessary. Her SATI is within the range of accepted students. The SATII scores will play a very small role in the acceptance process when it comes down to a 10-20 point difference. Her SATI math score is the more telling of her mathematical ability and I think that's what they care more about (unless her SATII was a 500 or so). With her stats, I think if she focuses her energies toward the essay, ec's, interests and presenting herself as being an asset to her chosen schools, that will get her much further than her re-taking the SATII. Best of luck to her.</p>
<p>PS. I don't think a 700 is going to make her look "so much better". Those schools are less about numbers and more about the person.</p>
<p>While it is probably true that small schools care about the person in the sense that they need to put together great classes and create a cohesive community reflecting many talents and personalities, they also care about numbers. And they have applicants who can give them both the great person and the the great numbers. Your D may very well be one of those. That said, Williams probably will care about the 690 and Swarthmore may too; 690 is one of those cosmetically painful scores that will give a toip school an excuse to find/prefer a similar candidate (in terms of skill sets and ethnic/geographic/socioeconomic balance) who has a slightly higher score. If everything else is really strong, it shouldn't be a dealbreaker for your D, but it could be. (I don't think it will be a problem for Grinnell and Wellesley.) </p>
<p>However, if prepping for the test retake might in any way detract from your daughter's school work and cause her to get an A- instead of an A or a B+ instead of an A-, then the tradeoff is probably not worth it. First semester senior grades really do matter and a grade out of A range might well look worse than a 690.</p>
<p>Also, keep in mind that the schools won't need to dip their standards for her even with a 690; they just have to not be looking at applicants with better numbers in her particular category of applicant. If your D is at least a good enough athlete to contribute off the bench or in a good club program, that might be enough to make the 690 more than acceptable. And coming from the West Coast, as I assume you do from your screen name, might also help a little, though probably not a lot. </p>
<p>Final thought--not sure I would focus too much on the AP scores that you mentioned, which are slightly soft and will not be terribly helpful for the Williams app (the only school whose admissions process I'm personally familiar with of the four you mention); yes, 4 is very good and gets you credit at most colleges, but it isn't a 5 and it is in fact compatible with a high 600 to low 700 SAT II score).</p>
<p>Since the SAT I math is so high, I would not retake the SAT II math unless she is mentioning she is interested in a major that has a math focus. There comes a point where you want to enjoy being a high school senior and ask if the extra effort will make a difference. For example, Stanford likes to see either of the math at 750 or above. Does not need to be both. I'm not familiar with all the schools' expectations that she is applying to, but I have a good feeling you will get merit money regardless of your financial need from Grinnell with your stats. My brother's stats were SAT I 1440 and all SAT IIs in the upper 600s and they offered him a nice scholarship. (Solid grades but not top in a competitive public school. Strong debate ECs too. No financial need and he did not fill out any special forms.)</p>
<p>My son had excellent SATIs and SATIIs except for a 670 in US History. He still got into several very amazing schools that I think many folks on CC would have thought not possible with that History score. I still believe that in view of your D's terrific SATI math score, that SATII score (which is still extremely competitive) won't make a bit of difference. Kids with perfect stats get rejected from some of the best schools. A 690 is nothing to be ashamed of and I think she should concentrate more on other aspects of her application that make the schools want her.</p>
<p>I'm in complete agreement with ColumbiaMom. I don't post my kids' stats on here as they would not want me to. But I'm glad I don't because like she posts above, people would assume getting into top schools was not possible but indeed, it was. My D had a similar profile to Californian. My feeling is she should NOT retake that MathIIC score in light of all her other scores and the 780 on the Math portion of the SAT, and in light of everything else on her record. The Calculus in 11th grade, all of it. I understand the 690 very much so as a very strong math student having forgotten some of the lower levels of math as they are accelerated and took those classes a long time ago. Anyway, I will send you a private message. </p>
<p>She has such strong scores all around I wouldn't bother. If she wants to really, really spend a lot of time on it, then okay. Otherwise, my daughter had a similar situation in Lit and she is such a strong English student she retook it without studying much and it went down.....who knows why, she didn't get dumber. Your daughter's package looks so strong that why not forget it UNLESS she plans to major in math. Also, if your daughter doesn't want to do it, she may not put in the time to make a difference.</p>
<p>My d and talked tonight and agreed to sleep on the question. I don't know the answer, but I am worried about encouraging her to squeeze anything else into her tight schedule. I also feel sad that, after all her work, she somehow feels like a failure. Oh well, it is time to ponder this while sleeping! Any other advice would be warmly appreciated.</p>
<p>Californian, my sons math scores, both for the SATI & II, were 680-690. All others were in the 750-800 range. I wanted him to retake as I felt with some application he could push his math scores over the 700 mark; however, he just didnt have the stomach for it. He said that he wasnt presenting prowess in math as a strongpoint and he just didnt want to take any more tests. His outcome (at Williams) was positive which may have been because he applied ED or may have been that the subjective parts of his profile outweighed the statistical.</p>
<p>My gut feeling is that scores are more important Swarthmore than to any of the other schools on your daughters list. Of course they are looking for intensely bright, interesting kids as well, but it seems of all the LACs that my son pursued, Swarthmore most frequently mentioned their high SAT results. So if Swarthmore is her first choice, then Id have another go, not because I think it will really matter, but so that she could feel assured that she gave it her best shot.</p>
<p>If the other schools are equally appealing, then Id concentrate on the other aspects of her application and let the scores rest. My guess is for Grinnell, Wellesley and Williams the 780 in the SATI will more than compensate for the 690 in the SATII. </p>
<p>What about her IB exams? Has she already taken any? A 6 or 7 in an IB math exam even standard level would be an excellent indicator to counterbalance the importance of an SATII score. Same goes for grades; if shes received As in math, then, again, one score under 700 wont much impact the decision.</p>
<p>For all of these schools, presenting a strong focused persona in essays, resume, supplements is critical. Thats where Id put my energy now.</p>
<p>I agree with much of what last night's posters have said but I do think it is important to realize that a kid from a heavily populated and often affluent area who has a lot of postitive thing in his or her app but not one special thing (like an outstanding talent or a compelling personal achievement or story) is competing against other kids from heavily populated and often affluent areas (not necessarily against seemingly similar kids from very underrepresented states or those who have lived abroad throughout high school), and the bar is set pretty high for these privileged but not uncommon kids. There are so many of them and the niche available for them at small schools is, logically, quite small, because there are so many other niches to be filled. </p>
<p>The OP's daughter does sound like a highly viable candidate, but not a knockout candidate, and in my experience it is important to keep that in perspective. Of course a 690 is a good score, and an excrellent and memorably essay might well balance it out. (As I noted in an earlier post, I don't think retaking is an especially good idea unless it will not interfere at all with schoolwork or other commitments.) But it is also true that the math 2c has an amazingly high curve and that even a 740 or 750 puts you in a relatively low percentile (you can get an 800 with several wrong answers). My general point is that anecdotal evidence that so and so got in with high 600s or so and so got money for 1440 SATs is just that--anecdotal, and for every such admit, there were probabyl several denies or waitlists with comparable or better numbers. Just as everyone with a 1600 does not get in, there is often a very specific (and valid) reason why an applicants with good but not incredible numbers might get in. So it's important to keep that in mind and have excellent favorites at slightly varying high levels of selectivity (and I think the OP's daughter has done just that, based on the schools listed).</p>
<p>Her hard work is by no means wasted; she has done very well, and she will very likely get in to at least two of the four schools named and, with luck, maybe more. And she could do a lot worse than even one of those schools. The scores are part of an impressive whole that should set her on her way to a great college and wonderful experiences.</p>
<p>I vote for not doing it unless she really wants to. I don't think the SAT 2 numbers are as important, simply because they are not the published ones which determine selctivity, ranking, etc. They more speak to the level of accomplishment of the student, which she has amply demonstrated.</p>
<p>My S had a 760 on the SAT M, but a 640 on SAT 2 IIC. Then took the IC and got a 720 (also had a 640 on US History). He was not willing to study for standardized tests. He is attending a very selective school; the SAT scores did not hurt him al all.</p>
<p>I bet the time could be better spent working on great applications.</p>