Reverse chance me, please!

Chance Me / Match Me!
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Stanford is tough. The numbers are daunting before you even break them down. Then, if you remove recruited athletes and other “hooked” applicants, the odds for unhooked applicants are very, verrry long. Sure, you’d have a 4.0 without your freshman grades, but so do thousands of other applicants who don’t get in.

I’m not sure this would clear the “worth traveling across the country” bar for you, but the whole UC system is freshman-blind and currently test-blind as well… and the College for Creative Studies at UCSB (a small-college-within-a-large-university which has an additional application process in addition to applying to the campus via the UC app) has this major that might appeal: Writing & Literature | UCSB College of Creative Studies Probably doesn’t land above the distance vs. desirability curve but just fwiw.

Kenyon has a terrific reputation for writing - I’m not sure there’s that much of a reputation gap between Kenyon and Hamilton, at least where writing is concerned. Is the “prestige” difference between Skidmore and Wesleyan really enough to override your particular “fit factors?” Absolutely, you deserve to be rewarded for your hard work - but going where you will be happy and thrive is a better reward than the momentary rush of people at your prep school being incrementally more impressed. I went to an elite prep school so I know how built up this can get. But six months later, when you’re actually at college, that will all be ancient history. Students at Kenyon aren’t walking around pining for Williams. At every “trophy school,” there are happy students, but there are also students who would’ve been happier at their 2nd or 3rd choice. You deserve the best possible experience in college, and none of the schools we’re discussing is a consolation prize. Really try to focus on where you can best picture yourself for 4 years.

The other advantage of ED is that it’s just a smaller pool, so your evolution as a student will get a closer look. Of course, it only makes sense to apply ED if you can truly identify your top choice(s). But if a couple of schools emerge that really feel like they fit, don’t let FOMO over a bright-shiny-object school that you might not even like as well keep you from following your gut.

Do you think you’ll be able to do a few college visits before you decide?

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As often determined, selectivity considers the academic profile of entering students. For example, with respect to schools mentioned in this thread, U.S. News (in its current print edition) assigns a selectivity rank of 5 to Hamilton, 5 (tied) to Williams, 19 to Wesleyan, 28 to Kenyon, 32 to Oberlin and 59 to Skidmore. (Schools with overall ranks outside the top 50 do not receive selectivity ranks). Nonetheless, as you suggested, Skidmore can represent a challenging admit for many applicants because of its low acceptance rate.

As a potential match suggestion for your list, look into Denison. As a reach, look into Vassar.

For descriptions of colleges in the context of their writing programs, you might find this article interesting:

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My D22 is looking at Creative Writing, too. Several women’s colleges are on her list and she is more interested in VA and the Southeast so those wouldn’t work for you, but you might look at Emerson in addition to Kenyon. I don’t think Kenyon is a reach for you. I think it’s a match. Emerson might be a safety if finances are not an object.

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Unhooked, test-optional and from NYC make the eastern seaboard T-20 very reach-ey, IMO.

Holy Cross - best fit (nothing, if not moderate politically) among colleges projected to be TO in the 2021-2022 school year.

University of the South (Sewanee) - I think you’d be a match here and it checks the box as far as literary reputation is concerned.

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I had actually heard about the UC system’s leniency, but it’s a bit farther than I’d be willing to travel.

My GC (and many of my friends to a greater extent) had told me recently that because my freshman year brought everything else down with it (GPA, class rank, availability of AP and honors courses), I could very briefly explain this in my essay. It is true that without 9th grade, which is often overlooked anyway, I’d be in a good position grades-wise (4.0 UW 4.2 W).

Or, I could apply to some schools with the policies of UC’s and Stanford as a safety net.

And yes, I have been visiting some schools in recent weeks. Princeton did a commemoration for my mom’s cousin who went there back in the day, so I saw the school and all. Was obviously blown away, but I didn’t want that to fuel a chimera.

Also saw Wesleyan (didn’t much like it), Sarah Lawrence (very nice), SUNY Purchase (safety but nice and close to my family), and will be visiting Boston and many of its schools (Northeastern, Tufts, BU, BC, and a few safeties like UMass as well).

The more I read about Hamilton, the more alluring it becomes. I like a school such as that one - selective, but not showy about it. Nice rural setting in my home state too.

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Have you considered a PG year at a boarding school?

While I am not recommending this path (I don’t have enough info) you sound like a good potential candidate. Particularly if your family has the financial resources and your HS performance trajectory is as steep as you describe.

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I haven’t yet considered that, but my parents (and GC) advised I try to get into the best school possible now, which would allow me to transfer if I did well and/or didn’t like the experience. I’d like to skip that last step. By the looks of a Skidmore or Hamilton, I don’t think there’d be a need to transfer were I admitted.

Also, my HS trajectory was very steep after my freshman year. I went from a 2.7 (81/100) to a 4.0 (95/100) and kept that 4.0 (still a 95) even after adding in honors courses this past year.

It is safe to say (and has been admitted by my school GC) that my freshman year messed with everything else. I was put in low-level courses because I came from my Sp-Ed middle school, did a mediocre job in those courses (big, big adjustment year) and could not access AP or honors courses until I got my grades up. My class rank also went down sharply because of this. I can’t be certain, but I think I’d easily be top 5-10 in my class of about 70.

I don’t know whether this makes any difference. It may still be worth a shot to apply to some T20’s, and I probably will (largely at the behest of my parents) do so. But I’m constantly exploring more reasonable options that often fit more of my needs than those T20’s.

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I know that McGill does not consider 9th grade grades, and it is a school with top-notch academics and a strong international reputation. I know that it is not small or rural – quite the opposite – but I wanted to mention it. Also, I have heard that other Canadian colleges may also ignore 9th grade grades, so it might be worth investigating what Canada has to offer.

McGill is also less expensive than many US colleges, at least for a Bachelor of Arts (they have significantly different costs depending on which degree program you are applying for).

By the way, congrats on the quality of your writing in these posts, and in how well you present yourself!

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Thanks for the consideration. I’m not so sure my parents would want me to be in a foreign (but adjoining) country.

Notwithstanding, I know McGill to be a good school, and I’m sure they do as well. Something to definitely consider.

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The Boston schools you noted may
Be on reach side but all reasonable.
UMass not what I’d call safety if you’re talking the flagship campus in Amherst. Any other UMass location though yes safety.

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Emory also drops 9th grade grades.

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Wonder if I’d have a chance there. It’s known to be a top school.

I’m also unsure of it’s programs. I’d like a school with a good literary program, which are common among liberal arts colleges.

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By available information, Emory represents a less challenging admit than one or two of the LACs you are considering: Hardest colleges to get into: Lowest admission rates, SAT, ACT scores.

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I don’t think you’d be disappointed in Emory’s program: http://creativewriting.emory.edu/home/documents/CW%20Majors%20Handbook-Updated%20June%202021.pdf If you wanted to use your ED1 for a higher reach, it could be a great choice - there is at least a “bump” in admit rate for ED at Emory, which there really isn’t for REA at Stanford, Princeton, et al. (Not quite where you wanted to be geographically, but Atlanta is at least a very easy hub to travel to.)

Emory has two lower-division options: spending all four years at the Atlanta campus, or spending the first two years at the Oxford campus (more of a small LAC environment about 40 miles outside of Atlanta) and the last two years in Atlanta. You can choose to apply to either or both. Admission rates aren’t very different between the two options; applying to both maximizes your chances. The Oxford campus could be best-of-both-worlds for you; a small LAC experience growing into a mid-sized university experience (with your whole cohort transitioning with you) and excellent opportunities in your academic area of interest.

Re: your earlier post and the Boston area schools… I like Northeastern a lot but cannot see it being a good fit for you. It’s very pre-professional - doesn’t attract a lot of literary, life-of-the-mind type students. (Journalism definitely; creative writing not so much.) Tufts, maybe. I don’t think BU has the cohesive campus environment that you want. (I graduated from BU and came very close to sending a kid to Northeastern, so no shade intended - I just don’t see the fit in your case.)

It would be great if it were possible for you to visit Hamilton and Kenyon. It would be interesting to see how you’d feel about those in person.

As for the not-counting-freshman-grades thing… that’s certainly a point in Emory’s favor. As you know, your freshman grades are only half of what you need to overcome; the other half is the late start you got on achieving the level of course rigor that the most competitive schools are looking for. Very strong recommendations may help to offset this. As was gestured at above with the “PG at a boarding school” suggestion, a “super-senior” year could help too… but I’m not sure the boarding school option (where PG students are more often than not athletes looking to develop further both athletically and academically to maximize recruitment possibilities) would fit as well as a possible AFS year, if studying abroad is something that interests you. The latter would be a much more broadening experience (vs. more elite-prep-school exposure which is rather BTDT for you) but would also give you access to additional advanced coursework, and allow you to apply after your senior grades/rigor are fully on the books. However, I don’t see this as something you need to do so much as something that could be advantageous if it also would be an experience that you would value on its own merits.

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Another list for you is:

It’s from a literary magazine, rather than a college consulting company, so they are basing this on the reputations these colleges have among creating writers.

There are a wide range of admission rates there (though they are wrong about NYU’s admissions rate).

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Well then.

Thanks for enlightening me on Emory’s literary program. I never knew it was so highly reputed.

The shift in acceptance rate there between RD and ED is also very significant (16% RD, 38% ED). It will be very important to maximize the potential of that ED slot, and as you mentioned, I don’t think that is something which most of the of T20’s will allow me to do.

From what I’ve read on this forum, Northeastern is as you describe it. I read that it is now beginning to ascend in prestige and is taking less and less students each cycle, and nothing about an LAC element whatsoever. I’d still like to visit since I will soon be in the area, but I will almost certainly end up scratching that one off the list.

As for freshman year and the late start in course rigor: I will be briefly explaining some of this in my supplemental essay section, but will also request an additional recommendation letter from my tutor (employed by my school) who has watched (and commended) my academic growth. I think she would best explain my past challenges as she knows my entire story and has worked with me for three consecutive years (even my favorite teachers only have me for one).

I don’t think taking a supplemental year would be something my parents would be on board with. I’d imagine the experience would be good (potentially great if abroad or in a distant state, I have a lot of built-up wanderlust), but if it would just be to help my chances at T20’s, I too would probably pass. I think I’d be equally content at either Skidmore or Harvard. My experience may be even better at the former - the other comes with its prestige, of course, but I don’t need too much of that. I may throw a Hail Mary at T20’s like that, but I will very likely miss each one because of my shortcomings in high school. However, I do think that most of these are easily explainable and almost all emanate from my freshman year. I will have to wait and see, but your advice truly helps.

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Or you might be more content at Skidmore. In this Boston Globe interview, for example, a prominent respondent names his choice of Harvard over a selective liberal arts college as his “greatest regret”:

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My experience may be even better at the former (Skidmore).

I don’t doubt it!

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Copying my responses from your other chain:

And Skidmore a likely, especially if full pay. The other 5 you mentioned - Stanford, Princeton, Emory, Tufts and Hamilton a hard no.

Ones that might work - so with city nearby:

Reed - reach
Macalester - high target / slight reach
Lafayette - target - they love full pay
Occidental - match
Rhodes - match
Trinity - match
Franklin & Marshall - match
Connecticut - match
Trinity San Antonio - match
Wooster - safety
Lewis & Clark - safety
Dickinson - low match / very likely
Kalamazoo - safety

How about a small SUNY such as Geneseo, Pottsdam, or Fredonia - no reason to overspend.

You disagreed as you claimed you had a 4.0 (on the other chain) - and as I commented that is ok. We are all amateurs trying to help you.

I then wrote (why waste such effort on my part!!)

My friend, there is many a student with a 4.0, rigor, and a 36 ACT getting turned down to the finest institutions. You have a 4.0 but no rigor and no test score. Here’s an example - the valedictorian of my daughter’s class applied to 16 top 20 schools. She had a 4.0, 4.5 weighted and 36 ACT. She was 0 for 16. She got into NYU but no aid and is going to U of TN.

It’s ok to disagree with me. I may not be right. But then why ask for people’s opinions if you are going to dismiss them?

As I said, apply where you want - I have no issue with that as long as you find several match/safety schools - which means, if you ended up there, you’d be ok. In other words, don’t apply to a school that you’d have no desire or you can in no way see yourself attending.

I gave you many schools - and there are many more you can find on your own - that anyone would be proud to attend - such as Kalamazoo, Wooster, Franklin & Marshall. These are great, very respected names.

Again, I wish you luck. I hope you get in where you think you will. I have serious doubts that you are even close - but it doesn’t matter. You should absolutely apply - my guidance is to have a back up. If I’m wrong, then no harm - you wasted a few bucks and a little time. If I’m right, you’ll have a credible school to attend. Based on what you’re saying, you really need to craft your story in a way that the AOs can see what you are trying to convey. Most will see what you said your life is on the surface - and therefore most will dismiss you. The question is - can you share your story in a way that will resonate with them, decide to give you a chance over the many valedictorians, salutatorians, and other accomplished students that are competing against you for a spot?

Again, good luck - and I hope you achieve your education and lifelong goals.

One last thing- I love this line right here: prefer a less prestigious school with a better environment.

Take out the word “prestigious” which really has no meaning except if you want it to…and then read that sentence again: prefer a school with a better environment.

I agree with this - find the school with the best environment for you, whether you deem it prestigious or not.

You have to spend four years there, day after day - and what one sees as prestige another may not. Many see school’s I mentioned - Skidmore, Occidental, Kalamazoo as prestigious. Others don’t see Wesleyan, Davison, Colgate, Washington & Lee as prestigious even though they are highly ranked.

There is no true thing such as prestige - we all form opinions based on marketing, lists, or otherwise - and what you see is different than what maybe I see - and honestly, it’s not relevant.

What is relevant that you spend your four years in an environment that is best suited for you.

I think I killed this one - but I do hope you take my guidance to heart (whether or not you use it) and I will watch to see if others comment - and hopefully they do - so you can get further perspectives.

Again, I wish you luck.

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Since the OP has posted an updated thread, I am closing this one.