<p>Also, Smith College has a program in Engineering now.</p>
<p>I didn't suggest Smith b/c all the schols on the list are unis or engineering schools with the more standard and narrowly-tailored curriculum, and awarding the first professional engineering degree. The Smith program is great and the new engineering/science center will be complete in 2009-10, but it is very much engineering w/i the open, liberal arts curriculum and does not award the professional degree. And most students interested in engineering school want the professional degree.</p>
<p>Tufts is another small uni offering engineering.</p>
<p>marnimom, An AA male who graduated high school with my DD last year is at MIT studying engineering (she attends the other school in Cambridge). He absolutely loves it there and is having a good time socially. The impression that I have is that the URM community is very close and supportive of each other at MIT.</p>
<p>I have to tell you that as a parent, Stanford really impressed me. Not only did I like the campus, but I also sensed that the students were laid back and that there was less self-segregation there than at other peer institutions.</p>
<p>BTW, you do know that both of these schools require or strongly recommend SAT IIs? If your DD has not yet taken them, she should do so very quickly.</p>
<p>Thanks, parents. I've heard a lot of really good things about MIT and Stanford. Both are on the short list but here's the other part of the problem - I know from experience that we're not going to qualify for financial aid, so we're only able to consider schools where there is the possibility of merit aid. Her sister currently is enrolled in college and we just can't do another $50K a year on top of the current tuition obligations. </p>
<p>Luckily, she's a strong student with an impressive math/science background. On the other hand, she's not one of the Intel semifinalists, if you know what I mean. She's interested in engineering, but focuses on theatre and music on her off time. It's made for a balanced child, but I wonder about the disadvantage it poses for her being considered for merit aid now that she's looking at these highly competitive engineering schools.</p>
<p>As far as the SATIIs, she's taken Math II and Bio. She's also taking them again tomorrow - she's trying to up her score in Math and wants to take one in Chem.</p>
<p>Marnimom,</p>
<p>Hope you know that with the recent Middle-Class-Magnet financial aid initiatives of the Ivys (Harvard, Princeton, Yale, Dartmouth, for sure), if your D's a strong contender, $$ shouldn't be an object. If your taxable income is above the $300K range, I stand corrected. In that case, I second the poster above who urged you to include URochester on the list. </p>
<p>While merit aid isn't as plentiful there as it once was, chances of full tuition are excellent for a top notch URM, they also offer an Urban League scholarship at $15K/yr. While several scholarships for which my D applied, there and elsewhere, required evidence of "financial need", we were pleasantly surprised to find that she evidently met SOMEONE'S idea of that state (besides ours), in that she qualified for merit aid w/a stated "need" component, even though we were not otherwise eligible for financial aid.</p>
<p>Washington U in St. Louis also has a rep for generous financial aid -- but it's highly competitive requiring additional essays, recommendations & interviews. </p>
<p>OK - so I'm biased, but if she's looking for a school where she can exercise her artistic AND scientific sides, she might also consider Brandeis. Tucked away in Waltham, MA and ranked #31 by US News & World Report, Brandeis is just big enough to meet new folks regularly, and small enough so that you'd never feel lost. Brandeis attracts highly intelligent, but laid back & quirky students who enjoy active involvement in lots of extracurriculars. The folks at Brandeis brought you "Smart Balance" a widely available butter substitute. Undergraduate research ops abound, and, if she's so inclined, your D can get the best of both worlds: graduating in 5 years w/joint degrees in science & engineering from Brandeis AND -- Columbia U!
Advising</a> and Policies | Academic Services | Brandeis University</p>
<p>Best of all? They still offer free rides, Babyyyyyyy!!</p>
<p>I'm sure your D will do just fine wherever she ultimately lands.</p>
<p>Dear Marnimom,</p>
<p>I encourage your daughter to look at the Picker Engineering Program at Smith College. Smith has a phenomenal approach to teaching engineering, and its program is superb.</p>
<p>The quality of the engineering program is such that every Smith College engineering student with a 3.5 GPA is GUARANTEED admission to the graduate engineering schools at Princeton, Dartmouth, Johns Hopkins, Tufts, and University of Michigan!</p>
<p>You can find more information on the program at: Smith</a> College: Picker Engineering Program and at: Smith</a> College: Picker Engineering Program</p>
<p>You asked for the perspectives of african american female students. Here are the perspectives of various female engineering students at Smith: Smith</a> College: Picker Engineering Program</p>
<p>Your daughter could pursue her theatre and music interests at Smith as well! Good luck with the decisions.</p>
<p>Picker is a great program and I think the inter-disciplinary teaching of engr w/i the liberal arts context is brilliant, but Smith does not award the first level professional engineering degree (this affects employability - - not grad school admission). Also, as one poster on the Smith forum noted, any female engineering student - - especially a black female engr student - - w/ a 3.5 overall gpa (or 3.3 in the major), is going to get into those grad programs. </p>
<p>If the student is concerned about "fit," she should also consider that Smith is a women's college (some girls will only consider coed schools). The black enrollment at Smith is 5-6% - - not quite as high as at the uber-top schools, but close to double the percentage at most top LACs.</p>
<p>Bottom line - - if the student is not committed to a traditional engineering program or coed college experience, Smith is a "must see."</p>
<p>Re: Smith</p>
<p>The Picker program looks great and Smith has a beautiful campus. However, while the nontraditional engineering program may be something she's willing to consider, I'm not sure how willing she is to attend a single sex institution. I know UMass is nearby, but the social piece is important to her and she's going to want to have the opportunity to socialize, in her small amount of free time, with some guys. However, it doesn't hurt to look, so I'll pass that recommendation on to her, too.</p>
<p>Anyone here seen the HBO movie, "Resolved?" I thought it was quite fascinating. Some of you on the West Coast might be familiar with the two students profiled from Long Beach Jordan HS, Richard Funches and Lewis Blackwell.</p>
<p>OMG we are now headed straight into the storm. </p>
<p>Junior year grades came back great. Board scores, yechhh. Any ideas on how to get DS to embrace the notion of a HBCU? He had considerable social problems with African Americans in local public high school. Has great AA friends from private school (attended k-8). Sees HBCUs as a "failure". Please some magic words here!</p>
<p>Marnimom --another thought about Smith and its Picker Engineering program, if your daughter is willing to consider a non-coed institution:</p>
<p>Smith is part of a 5-college consortium (with Amherst, Hampshire, Mt. Holyoke and Univ Mass). You can take classes at any. There is a free shuttle bus to get to classes at the other campuses. Buses run nights and weekends also. </p>
<p>Students told us that it wasn't hard to meet guys and they did so in classes (5-college consortium), clubs, projects, organizations, parties. One student noted it was nice to be able to focus on academics and work during the week (without distraction), and then socialize on the weekends.</p>
<p>Hey Triguena.</p>
<p>I guess I can try to assist. The kid is going to attend Howard in the fall and is excited about it. I have some questions, though.</p>
<p>Why does he see HBCUs as failures? What kind of problems did he have with the students at the public HS?</p>
<p>The kid is looking at Howard at give her a look at the diversity of African Americans. She anticipates the "intellectual thugs" attending, but she also anticpates people like her, in addition to any and everything else.</p>
<p>Maybe your son has interests that aren't considered "black"? Like my kid inhales international soccer..La Liga anyone? lol Her music is all over the place. We play World of Warcraft together. Urban-wear is not her thing. She knows how to do the "Cotton-eye Joe" : ( <--that makes mom sad lol She has dated boys who are African-American, Indian and White.</p>
<p>Anyway, in fairness, she only considered Howard. She considered Spellman, but then reality kicked in as she attended an all girls high school..lol</p>
<p>I'd say play up the diversity of the people who attend the HBCU's. I think there is a perception that it is an extension of High School, but as with everything else, it is what you make it.</p>
<p>Hope this helps a little!</p>
<p>The Picker engineering program is great, but it is not for a student who is committed to a co-ed college experience. </p>
<p>Yes, Smith is part of the 5 college consortium. Yes, you can take classes at the other colleges. Yes, there's a free bus. But, all of the schools limit the number of courses a student can take off-campus. And when you add transportation time, taking an off-campus class requires about double the hours. Bottom line, taking classes at the other schools isn't difficult, but it is not nearly as easy as Integrityo9 suggests.</p>
<p>Likewise, one can meet men while attending Smith, but is is more difficult than if one attended a co-ed school.</p>
<p>Triguena,</p>
<p>It pays to have a broad perspective and there is a lot of distinction and uniqueness among HBCUs. A place like North Carolina A&T University seems to produce many happy and successful alumni, for example.</p>
<p>Triguena,
Why do you want your S to be interested in HBCU's? Is it because of his board scores, personal experience? If he's really not interested in HBCU's, I think you'll probably have a hard time convincing him. It would probably be the same if he wasn't interested in any class of colleges, i.e. LAC's, rural, big, small, etc. It could be the more you push it, the more he's going to say he doesn't like it. Has he visited any HBCU's? Maybe a visit could help (or maybe not) I don't remember from your previous posts if he's tried both SAT and ACT. If he hasn't, of course he should. As Lakewashington says there can be a lot of differences among HBCU's so look at a lot. However, quite a few have had significant financial problems and other issues like low graduation rates, so choose carefully.</p>
<p>Thanks for your insights Silvermoonlock, LakeWashington and Prefect. Yes, he has taken both SAT and ACT. SAT showed some improvement the second time around but still low. Second round of ACT due back this week. He refuses to try again and I support his decision--the stress was way too much to bear(bare?? D@#n English homonyms!).</p>
<p>Anyway, in response to why HBCUs? Because they fit his Board Score profile. He needs some "safeties". When I compare HBCUs like Hampton and Howard to "mainstream" schools that have the same midrange scores there is no question that the HBCUs are superior. I have looked at the schools very carefully and both Howard and Hampton seem to financially sound and have an academic program that he would be a good fit (both have good schools of communications). To me it is a no-brainer--add Howard and Hampton to the list. My parents both went to HBCUs (way back in the day) and I am often envious of the type of college life they experienced (I went the Seven Sisters route). </p>
<p>DS is hesistant of the social atmosphere as we live in a 99% white suburb. Perversely I hesitate to take him to visit at this point. From a Buildings and Grounds perspective I have been told (but don't know first hand) that the dorms, etc. at Howard and Hampton are not as nice as say Loyola or Syracuse. I don't want him to dismiss a potentially wonderful college experience because the dorms show a bit more wear and tear.</p>
<p>Ah, dilemmas.</p>
<p>Triguena,
I visited Howard two summers ago with my D. It was a great tour. We were in town for a convention and so I e-mailed ahead and set it up. The campus was very nice, but they didn't have a single dormitory open for the tour. Here's one thing that may cause your son to consider Howard. The campus is 70 percent female. That was enough to turn my daughter completely off! She had been enjoying the tour up to that point. That stat may have the opposite effect on your son.</p>
<p>We also wondered whether an HBCU would be a good experience for my daughter since, although she goes to a very ethnically mixed school, she does not typically 'hang out' with many other black students.</p>
<p>She turned down Baylor university because of what she perceived to be a lack of diversity on campus. Said she didn't want to go to a school where "everybody is the same thing." I think in this case she meant Christians, even though she is a Christian.</p>
<p>I'm sure this thread could debate all day about what the value of an HBCU is in this day and age. It's really important to visit. Try to go when school is in session. The campus was very dead at the end of July.</p>
<p>On some HBCU web sites, there are lots of complaints about things like broken showers. I did ask a parent whose two sons recently graduated from Howard what she thought of the school. She believed they got a very fine education. She was very frustrated with the administration and everything from responses to e-mails and phone calls to glitches in financial aid.</p>
<p>Wow. The administration at Howard. We look at it as an adventure at this point. I concede that because the kid is a Laureate scholar, we have been able to bust through some of the admin issues, since they have a group just for them. We have been navigating the medical forms. I have been making the kid do most of the contact because she will be one to have to deal with it on campus, as she may as well learn now. I call it a life experience lol. Howard admin has responded and they eventually follow through.</p>
<p>Howard will have an open house type of thing for the students where they spend the weekend with other students. The kid had an opportunity see the dorms and attend classes. She also was introduced to greek life, as the Q's had a line and the pledgees did "stuff" in the yard. Being there while school was in session, without mom and dad, she could see and find people like her and people unlike her.</p>
<p>You may also want to check HBCU college fairs. That was an eye-opener for my daughter.</p>
<p>My friends who have children who attend other HBCU's, including Hampton, have indicated their kids want to transfer to Howard. One is going from Wilberforce to Howard. He hated Wilberforce (college in the cornfield, anyone?) and my aunt who lives in the area and attended Wilberforce called me and said do not under any circumstances send my child there!! Wilberfoce, is indeed, having financial issues.</p>
<p>The one at Hampton, thought it was an extension of High School and the rules seemed a bit archaic.</p>
<p>There are other schools to look at. I know in Michigan, there are some state schools that fit the bill just fine with the good grades and mediocre test scores.</p>
<p>My thought is and it is apparent that it is contrary to these boards, that a college education regardless of the prestige of the school is the end goal.</p>
<p>It's nice to say my child attends Harvard or Stanford. It's also nice to say my child attends Wright State University or Kentucky State University or Grand Valley State.</p>
<p>If we are honest, we know very successful people who graduated from all types of colleges. I think its just the parents who get off saying my child is attending <pick the="" most="" prestigious="" school="" you="" can="" think="" of="">.</pick></p>
<p>About HBCUs, my suggestion is to insist that your kid visit a variety of different types of schools including HBCUs so as to make the most informed decision about which type of school your kid would want to attend.</p>
<p>Then, I think you should allow your kid to place applications at the schools that your kid likes and that you feel you can afford. I don't think that you should force your kid to apply to an HBCU, but I do think it would be a good idea for you to take your kid to look at one or two.</p>
<p>
[quote]
My parents both went to HBCUs (way back in the day) and I am often envious of the type of college life they experienced (I went the Seven Sisters route).
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Just this past week, I had lunch with a co worker who is an alumnus of a HBCU. (Kentucky State) She recently has become a PhD and is a staunch supporter of the HBCU experience. </p>
<p>Your quote struck a cord with me as we often have been at odds philisophically about an HBCU experience in comparison with other mainstream college options. She brought up the point that now as a professor at the satellite campus of the local university, she now realizes that while HBCU's are not obsolete, there has been a drain on the academic, intellectual, economic and social capital on these campuses, as these resources have been integrated into more of the mainstream colleges and universities. This is especially true in her opinion, of some of the most bright professors and students being snapped up by "more elite" schools who may have more to offer in pay, resources, financial aid, etc. It would seem this would be especially so since the time that maybe your parents had attended their alma maters. She says it's definitely so since she completed her undergrad.</p>
<p>Given his experiences and apparent comfort level in his current environment, unless he feels some desire to be in a completely opposite situation culturally, it would seem it would take some kind of persuasion to get him to seriously consider the HBCU option(s). Good luck in your search. As you probably already know, strive to make it as much his decision as you possibly can.</p>