Revival of Middle Class Black Posters

Parents Forum
361

<p>Dbate, dating IS an issue (in fact we've discussed it here see post #31, or on the previous incarnation; I don't envy my D, and my brother and son have NO qualms about dating outside the race), but not one I feel like discussing right now. In fact, I'm on my "tablet" and "discussing" anything is a chore, but I did want to say my D was calling or texting daily, describing various activities and exploits, until dad finally said "are you spending ANY time studying?" I didn't hear from her for two days. Today she reports she dropped one of her many "extras" , and reports she spends most of her weekdays on "homework", and is setting along "famously" with her roommate. She has both impressed and BEEN impressed. She has joined an a cappella group, but interestingny not said a WORD about the gospel choir that was one of the schools main draws for her. No HINT of any "self-segregating" if you get my meaning.</p>

<p>dbate; </p>

<p>"black girls want to date black guys (which is understandable"</p>

<p>what's yor theory on that?</p>

362

<p>D is going to top college. Her HS was predominately minority. But all of her friends are white, asians and she doesn't seem to identify (socially) with AA as much as H and I would like her to. She was ranked 4 in her class. So just based on my own experience, her intelligence kept her with the likeminded individuals. Her school crowd were the very bright, motivated and driven. She was ostrasized by her own people, because she didn't talk the talk or walk the walk. Socially she is an alternative, indie kid .She is attracted to artsy, alternative intelects. I like the idea that she is confident and didn't let the pressure of her AA peers change who she is. She has dated sparsely and none have been black males. I don't know if she would discount them, but they have to be of the intelectual type that operate to an independent tune and are not mainstream black males.</p>

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<p>AAAAARRRRRRRRRRGGGGGHHHHHHH!!!! (note to self: Get some therapy about this issue).</p>

<p><em>clear throat</em> Ahem. Dbate. I'm torn here. Part of me wants to answer you as a sympathetic, CC, supportive parent of a son might. The other 1/2 (the parent of an AA daughter who wants to date an intelligent black male) wants to reach in where it hurts and wrench out the crap.</p>

<p>I guess what bothers me most about your post, is that it makes a feeble initial feint at writing sympathetically about the plight of the intelligent black female, then kicks the reader in the gut with the REAL motivation -- support from upper middle class blacks for interracial dating: specifically black male/non-black female. </p>

<p>The post's rationale, as I interpret it, is: These people are smart. They live in a multicultural world. So surely they'll exonerate me -- perhaps even laud me -- for my total disinterest in dating an intelligent black woman. THEY know the "round-the-way-girl" stereotype that turns me off!</p>

<p>WRONG!!! Your school is 40% black?! And you can't find a single attractive, intelligent, black female you might be interested in dating?! And (oh god. I'm going to regret this.) you're so smart and irresistible to sistas of color - you don't EVEN need to put any effort into your written communcation? I could barely extract from your post what on earth you were attempting to communicate (and clear communication is the LEAST most intelligent black women expect from their counterparts of ANY hue) -- so you'll have to forgive me if I got it totally wrong. I'd expect an intelligent black male headed to Yale to PROOFREAD. (okay, maybe I'm being unfair here. After all, I do have "a few" years of writing experience over you - and I can't do math for beans. I'm just mad).</p>

<p>ok. Rant out of the way:</p>

<p>Everyone's tastes vary. At your age, dating shouldn't be proscribed by social convention. So it's perfectly ok for you to date anyone in the world who strikes your fancy. I do, however, wonder at black males who specifically AVOID dating black females (of equivalent intelligence/social standing). When I chat with/read about black males with this point of view, I can't help but wonder if the aversion isn't due to some level of self-hatred. This makes me sad. To me, a PREFERENCE for Irishwomen is substantively different from a conscious decision NOT to date black women. The first I support, the second I have difficulty forgiving.</p>

<p><em>shrug</em> But that's just me. What can I say? (points to cinnamon-colored wrist) I'm biased.</p>

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<p>Right on, Supermom!! </p>

<p>D1 seems to have preference for dating white males, primarily (though not exclusively) b/c 95% of the students (male and female) at her hs were white. I think she also found the black males there more into partying than she was, and more into "playing the field," whereas she wanted a steady bf - - but she certainly did not and does not avoid dating black men. </p>

<p>Thus far, D2, who attends a more diverse school, has been primarily interested in black boys. She has, however, recently expressed a nacient interest in a few white boys who have interests similar to hers or who have expressed an interest in dating her.</p>

<p>Like supermom, I would be upset if either of my girls avoided dating black or applied a different standard to black and white "suitors." (I'm not convinced that anyone really limits him/herself to partners of equiv intell and social standing - - in fact, good-looking boys and girls often trade on their beauty to move a few rungs up the socio-economic ladder. In the musical "Evita," one song describes Eva Peron as "the greatest social climber since Cinderella.")</p>

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<p>
[quote]
"The post's rationale, as I interpret it, is: These people are smart. They live in a multicultural world. So surely they'll exonerate me -- perhaps even laud me -- for my total disinterest in dating an intelligent black woman. THEY know the "round-the-way-girl" stereotype that turns me off!"

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</p>

<p>I do not need exoneration about dating who i want. I am not sure of the "round-the-way" sterotype, that seems rather anachranistic, and not something that is really present among the younger population. </p>

<p>
[quote]
" you're so smart and irresistible to sistas of color - you don't EVEN need to put any effort into your written communcation? I could barely extract from your post what on earth you were attempting to communicate (and clear communication is the LEAST most intelligent black women expect from their counterparts of ANY hue)"

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</p>

<p>Attacks based on not proofreading in a chat room? This is the internet, there is not the same level of communication expected. I do not think that i am irresistible to black girls, in fact I don't know many who have ever thought that I was attractive. Only non-black girls seem to be attracted to me.
The whole thing arose bc I have a black friend that is a girl (well her mom is white, but she is black) and she doesn't date black guys. Period, flat out in class she litterally said "Go away I like white boys." She is an awesome person so we are definitely still friend. But I was like, if she has no qualms about dating outside her race, then why should I?
Perhaps this is more of an introspective thing. I mean there are few intelligent black men, and I don't know. I kind of felt that it would be bad to not date a black girl, because of basic numerical exclusion.</p>

<p>
[quote]
"When I chat with/read about black males with this point of view, I can't help but wonder if the aversion isn't due to some level of self-hatred. This makes me sad. To me, a PREFERENCE for Irishwomen is substantively different from a conscious decision NOT to date black women. The first I support, the second I have difficulty forgiving."

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</p>

<p>I definitely do not hate myself, I know I am awesome :)! I would probably be more of the former than the later in your description, I really like girls with long hair. </p>

<p>
[quote]
"black girls want to date black guys (which is understandable"</p>

<p>what's yor theory on that?"

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</p>

<p>Personal anecdote which can not be empirical substaniated. At my school there is interracial interaction, but black girls seem not to date other races as much. I don't understand why someone would limit themselves? The understandable part was followed by a ;), because it was a joke. </p>

<p>
[quote]
"WRONG!!! Your school is 40% black?! And you can't find a single attractive, intelligent, black female you might be interested in dating?! "

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</p>

<p>Our school is 40% black but in APs and stuff there are not a lot of black ppl. In fact there is usually two me and a black girl from my middle school. I do not know many of the others. And it is not like some random black girl and guy are going to date, there has to be attraction. If there were 1000 black girls and i wasn't attracted to one, then the numbers would not matter. And conversely if our school was .05% black (me and another black girl) then that would be enough if we were attracted to each other. So the percent should not be applied to societal interactions. </p>

<p>I am surprised ppl would respond with anger, I intentionally tried to use rhetoric that was not incendiary, but I guess I failed. :(</p>

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<p>So you get that "our" generation ( of women, at least ) is not ready to take this lightly?</p>

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<p>^^^It seems as if it should matter even less to older individuals. I mean all of you have obviously obtained mates, so why would you care about younger generations in the realm of dating. Unless you all have daughters and children, which you do. But it still seems as if there would be a sense of detachment because the issue does not directly affect you all.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
"So you get that "our" generation ( of women, at least ) is not ready to take this lightly?"

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</p>

<p>I find that to be racist. Not to long ago I saw a friend of mine from middle school at wal-mart. She is white and I am obviously black. I had not seen her for about three years, because she went to a private high school, needless to say there was hugging and we talked a while. Throughout the whole time we were talking black women would pass by and give us an offensive look (probably partially because we were blocking the aisle :)). I was very offended by that fact as that is racism, and I don't think that people should react that way regardless of what race they are.</p>

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<p>You find the fact that I do not take the subject lightly to be "racist?" Maybe I better look up the meaning of the word. There are many things that are race related that I have strong feelings about, many of which my children don't share. I understand they do not "feel it" the way I do. I like to think I raised them with that in mind. But I don't think my sensitivity about a subject makes me racist. You asked about our experiences. You wondered about angry feelings. Did you hear anything useful?</p>

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<p>
[quote]
"Did you hear anything useful?"

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</p>

<p>Not really. People obviously misunderstood the nature of what I was posting and responded thinking that somehow I was bashing black women.</p>

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<p>OK, where to start? SMIA I echo your "rant". As to your original post Dbate--yes,this is an internet chat thread BUT that does not excuse illogical leaps, conclusory statements and misused words. After all you are the one who stated that you are "very smart." So are we. </p>

<p>Darlin' date who you want. Don't look to us for validation. It is a whole new world out there. Now I don't agree with my son that we live in a "post racial society" (witness the racist attacks on Barack Obama). However I think that my fellow posters will agree that our kids slide between cultures more fluidly than we did in our day.</p>

<p>One need look no further than the number of interracial kids who now populate college campuses to show that race is less rigid. To be sure our children still have to contend with the same taunts hurled at us about our speech patterns, etc. But they are finding acceptance in multiracial friendship circles that give me hope that perhaps after all these years Tom Sowell was right about the "Declilning Significance of Race."</p>

<p>Good luck finding a young women who will accept you for what you are and is not concerned with the color of your skin.</p>

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<p>Dbate, you said...</p>

<p>"At my school there is interracial interaction, but black girls seem not to date other races as much. I don't understand why someone would limit themselves? "</p>

<p>Do you think it's the girls who are limiting themselves? Could it be the guys?</p>

<p>"The understandable part was followed by a , because it was a joke"</p>

<p>I do get that it was a joke but I wondered if there was anything behind it!</p>

<p>As I said above, my son "dates" who be likes: no comments from me. My daughter is older, but "dates" very little. I wonder why? Did you read post #31?</p>

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<p><em>laughing</em> Okay Dbate, I had d2 take a peek in here 'cause I was sure I was gonna get skewered, and I was too scared to look. I gotta tell ya -- although she's in 10th grade and spends ALL her spare time "texting" -- she too, took exception to your original post. So it seems it's your fat I'll need to rescue from the fire.</p>

<p>You've been posting 'round these parts for a bit, so you know that generally speaking -- I got your back. ;-) I sure don't want to discourage a motivated (and VERY brave) young brother like yourself from posting in here. We old biddies, mated as we are, still like to coo, ahhhh and fuss over the youngsters and offer what support we may in our feebleminded, "anachronistic", ways. (<em>sigh</em> note to L.L.Cool J: Dude, you are SO last century! My d2 didn't know what a "round-the-way-girl" was either - who'da thunk it?)</p>

<p>So with that in mind, I second Triguena's very level-headed response. Date who ya want. Don't ask us. What do we know? Obama's clinching the democratic nod brought me literally to tears. Never thought I'd see it in my day. The VP nomination of a female, workaholic mom, under an ethics cloud, with a pregnant teen daughter, special-needs infant, rap-sheet spouse, and questionable educational pedigree, to the Republican ticket was another GIANT step in American history (and THIS all following Condoleeza and Colin!). If the political climate is indicative of real underlying social change, you are one lucky kid, indeed.</p>

<p>In the meantime, I'll refrain from filing away my copy of the black national anthem until folks QUIT referring to the interracial offspring of white and black parents as "black" (unless that offspring chooses to so identify), and young brothers quit asking "why don't black girls date outside their race more often?" -- instead of wondering "why don't guys of other races ask black girls out on dates more often?" </p>

<p>I got nuthin' but LUV 4ya, baby! (holds out peace offering of fresh-baked brownies to dbate). Be sure to keep us posted on your college app odyssey!</p>

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<p>
[quote]
there are only a few intelligent black males

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</p>

<p>
[quote]
I mean there are few intelligent black men...

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</p>

<p>Hmmm... my experience does not support these statements. I'm curious about your definition of intelligence. </p>

<p>As the father of three daughters, I would also add that if Black females do not find you attractive, as you say, I doubt they view themselves as getting the short end of the stick by virtue of you dating outside your race. </p>

<p>That's not meant to be as biting as it might sound, and certainly no offense is intended. I simply disagree with any "intelligent" Black male walking around with the unnecessary burden of a savior complex. I'm not saying you are one of them, but you do seem concerned that by dating others you will somehow leave Black females in a nasty little predicament, having otherwise no intelligent Black males to date. </p>

<p>That type of thinking practically dooms any chance of a meaningful relationship from the very beginning. As unintentional as it may be, it smacks of arrogance and an over inflated sense of self importance. I know my daughters would not accept anyone who reflected that type of thinking. And as their father, neither would I. I'm sure I'm wrong, but I can't help but wonder if that's one of the reasons Black females have shown you so little interest.</p>

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<p>That Obama makes me mad. I am a very conservative Republican so there is no way in heck I am voting for him (It is my first time getting to vote :) I am so excited). I wish he were Republican then maybe i could cry as well. I cried during Michelle's speech, I like her alot more than Obama. But I also cried when I heard John McCain talk about being tortured. </p>

<p>
[quote]
""why don't black girls date outside their race more often?" -- instead of wondering "why don't guys of other races ask black girls out on dates more often?"

[/quote]
</p>

<p>What do you mean by this? That males of other races do not want to date black girls? From personal experience I know of Asians and whites who do not, but I think a fair amount would be open to it.</p>

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<p>Well my conception of intelligence is different. I mean I published an original paper studying the probability of photons to undergo quantum tunneling. So my standard of intelligence may be different than others. But quantitative data, shows that blacks score lower than others on tests, that coupled with me being the sole black at science fairs, and math club, and other "academic" things, all at a school where 40% are black kinda skews my perception.</p>

<p>
[quote]
"As the father of three daughters, I would also add that if Black females do not find you attractive, as you say, I doubt they view themselves as getting the short end of the stick by virtue of you dating outside your race. "

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Trust me they are missing out on alot ;), but I have been told I am not very black anyway. Many ppl have already told me I am going to marry a white girl, to the point where it is just expected. </p>

<p>
[quote]
"And as their father, neither would I. I'm sure I'm wrong, but I can't help but wonder if that's one of the reasons Black females have shown you so little interest."

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</p>

<p>They don't show me much interest bc I am not a typical black person, dont act "black", nor talk "black". In fact I have been called an Oreo so often I am used to it. I most certainly don't assume to be a savior in the least bit. I don't care about other ppl, but I don't know...I guess that whole black family crud stuck in my mind, as if I had an obligation to community or something. But that in and of itself is a relic. Oh well, at least I know I wont be purposefully offending ppl.</p>

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<p>I'd suggest that there's more than one type and form of intelligence. Your ability to study and write about photons is but one. Be careful about judging others just because they do not not apply theirs the same as you. </p>

<p>
[quote]
They don't show me much interest bc I am not a typical black person, dont act "black", nor talk "black". In fact I have been called an Oreo so often I am used to it.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Unfortunately, this is a common experience among Black students who are academically motivated. I think a number of us on this forum have experienced such comments directed at our sons and daughters alike. But the girls who are saying things like that to you aren't the intelligent ones, now are they? So they don't count. What about the intelligent ones? How do they treat you?</p>

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<p>Well I only know a few really intelligent black girls. They both do not say those things, bc well they are like me. People probably would not consider them black either.
Consequently, one of the intelligent black girls I mention is the one who only dates white guys.</p>

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<p>Dbate, I have to go a little further than FLVADad and say that many of us here have PERSONALLY experienced what you're going through. Our sons and daughters are simply carrying the torch a little further.</p>

<p>As a kid, despite the jeers and outright hostility from other blacks, I couldn't help being secretly pleased that people always commented on how "different" I was. "Oreo" perversely became a badge of honor. Who the heck wanted to be black -- if "black" meant being like all those thugs who tried to kick my a** every day after school? In college, I began to feel guilty. Experiencing FLVADad's "savior" complex, I felt it my obligation to date only black men -- in order to perpetuate the species and spread "the intelligence gene."</p>

<p>I don't remember when it was, exactly, that I first began to lose my arrogance and realize that not only was I distinctly NOT the only smart black person alive (beside my mother), there were entire COMMUNITIES and COUNTRIES filled with even SMARTER black folk. The next step was a realization that - yes, being called an "Oreo" IS an insult. It assumes that people like me don't exist. That some OTHER people are the measure by which I should be judged. It's a dangerous appellation, because it's so insinuous. It puts a lever between me and others who look like me, and makes it less likely that I'll try to get to know them. I'm special; I'm really NOT like them, better avoid the inevitable rejection. After all -- how can it be such a bad thing to be called "one smart cookie?"</p>

<p>I choose to see your posting here as an instinctive attempt to find others "like you" and reassure yourself that you're not really alone. Despite my earlier diatribe, I admit that several of my relatives have chosen to date and/or marry across racial lines. Some have stayed to together for decades, others have been more transitory. We've all faced your struggle - where to find true love? Answer? Anywhere you can.</p>

<p>The fact that you don't see our sons and daughters posting here - may just mean that our childhood experiences have equipped them to cope a little better with their "uniqueness" -- or that some of us live in communities where intelligent blacks are the norm, rather than the exception. It doesn't mean that they're not facing the same dating challenges/options as you.</p>

<p>Whatever you ultimately decide, please, PLEASE don't choose your social circle based on some self-fulfilling prophecy about who you are. And don't let your (quite understandable - congrats on your publication and impressive SAT stats) youthful arrogance blind you to the wealth of choices available "close to home." </p>

<p>Now, the CONSERVATIVE thing -- we'll have to work on another time . . . ;-)</p>

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<p>SMIA, loved your post. You said it perfectly what a lot of us are not able to articulate.
The real answer does lies in:

[quote]
where to find true love? Answer? Anywhere you can

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</p>