Revival of Middle Class Black Posters

Parents Forum
501

<p>"...feelings for the UW are luke warm at best."</p>

<p>We're from Seattle and both my husband and I are UW graduates. My husband definitely felt somewhat alienated as an undergrad there although as he progressed he developed some close relationships with his professors.</p>

<p>My D has been involved with the business school's outreach programs, Young Exec of Color and ACAP (accounting career awareness program) and they have an active black student assoc. and a diversity director whose mom teachers at her grammar school so she is well connected.</p>

<p>I think if she went to b school she would feel OK but she really wants to spread those wings and leave Seattle and be someplace warm and sunny so we'll see what happens.</p>

502

<p>IMPW and Triguena, thanks to both of you. </p>

<p>My D has an info session followed by an interview at Haverford on Saturday morning, September 27. </p>

<p>She's been to Swarthmore twice, but no mention of the Discovery Weekend. A little birdie told me invitees were usually recommended by their H.S. guidance counselor (without the kid knowing it). Perhaps it's for the best. My D is a little bit intimidated by Swarthmore's rep for a back-breaking volume of work.</p>

<p>I actually called Amherst for an app and received a bit of a run around. They asked no questions about her, so it's not like they decided she isn't worthy based on numbers. She's Top 10% and NHS, by the way, which combined with an expression of interest in Amherst should've at least garnered an app for the weekend program. I was told they'd call us back. They didn't. Interestingly, after that experience, I learned the Amherst weekend overlaps the Cornell University weekend, and she's already been accepted to that one. </p>

<p>Oh well. Right now she's favoring Oberlin (we visited, she interviewed) and Lehigh U. She applied to Oberlin's Multicultural Visit Program and she's an applicant for Lehigh's Diversity Achievers overnight program. Lehigh will be a piece of cake to get to because we live less than an hour's drive from the campus.</p>

<p>Basically, we're a relatively close drive (one day or less) to all the schools on her list:</p>

<p>Cornell: 3.5 hours
Haverford: 1.5 hours
Swarthmore: <1.5 hours
Amherst: 5 hours
Lehigh: 35 minutes
Dickinson: 2 hours
Oberlin: 7 hours</p>

503

<p>Plainsman, I'm really sorry to hear about Amherst and not getting an application for their Diversity Open House. The word has really gotten out about this weekend. They usually invite students to apply, but, in the past, you could request an application since they do go through a screening process. Sounds like this year is different. Your daughter seems highly sought after and she'll end up with great choices.</p>

504

<p>Plainsman, if your D is interested in Amherst, I would urge her to apply. I know that last year all DIVOH applications were due in August, even for the October session. All invitations for both September and October were notified by the first week of September,so I wouldn't take alot of offense. I know impw told you of the wonderfull diversity at Amherst, and although my D has just started her first year there, she say's that is one of the things she loves the most!</p>

505

<p>Hey, everyone! Certainly miss chatting with you guys and am glad to read about how everyone is doing. Like lmpw, my child is at Amherst and loving it. I have only been there 3 times, but I am truly impressed with how they do things. The "school runs smooth like butter" rep is well deserved as far as I can tell. As lmpw alluded to, the campus reminded me of what the UN must be like, very diverse. </p>

<p>As for Dbate, I like him. I'm like him, and I'm nearly 45. Not as conservative, but can relate to many of his political positions. I chuckled a bit as I read some of the parents responses to his observations on race and dating, and his political views. I especially found amusing how some discounted his perspectives and political views because he was young. Like him, I enjoy civil debate on issues and consider myself well versed and well read than most of the people I engage in debates. Not unusual to see some of those less prepared to defend their point(s) of view resort to ad hominem, straw man, red herring and similar types of arguments. Well I'm not so young and I've heard all the comeback some of you have leveled at him and much, much worse. It's unfortunate but not rare, that when someone doesn't follow established patterns of thinking they are somehow less black, or hate themselves or some ad hominem attack on their person. There are over 40 million of AA descent in this country. Are they all not black? I guess the NAACP is for the advancement of 'colored people' as long as they don't subscribe to the platform of the Republican party. Same thing with NOW, as long as you're a not a Sarah Palin type, then you're not a real woman.</p>

<p>Lastly, I think that we all want many of the same things for our people, abundant opportunity, prosperity, respect, and success in this country. I think that fundamentally we look at similar situations and our perspectives may be different as well as our solutions to our problems hence;</p>

<p>
[quote]
. Black Liberals seek ways to obliterate racism; Black Conservatives seek ways to thrive in spite of it.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>And lastly, I think that Dbate and myself I may add, may be defined by the latter part of this quote;</p>

<p>
[quote]
Blacks who are conservative don't necessarily believe that racism continues to be a big player in the affairs of Blacks; Black Conservatives think it's a permanent feature of the landscape, but that can't be an excuse for failing.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>You guys take care and I certainly look forward to hearing from you all!</p>

506

<p>Well, I was at a loss, the minute the Dbate converatsation became a political one. I was not ready for that here. My impression, up to that point, was that he was asking for our thoughts and feelings regarding the dating scene for Black woman, but was unable to just listen. I think being able to listen, without becoming defensive, is an acquired skill. I'm still working on it.</p>

507

<p>I really don't want to get into a political discussion on this thread (because there are some others elsewhere on this website). I really want us to discuss, inform and help one another with our kids and these institutions of higher education. There are all kinds of Black folks out here and I'm sure we've all had experiences with a variety of points of view. I'm immediately turned off when Black men/boys start talking about not dating/marrying Black women because there is some type of deficiency with the women or girls as opposed to admitting that they have a preference for women of another race. Different strokes for different folks. Then for Dbate to continue with this effusive praise of Palin who from everything I've read doesn't care about women or Black folks. And, please I'm not looking for a response to this message. let's just move on and talk about colleges. Good night.</p>

508

<p>Madville, I appreciate the fact you can identify with being a Black conservative, but that's not what created the negative exchange. The root cause was not Dbate's views, but the judgemental and disagreeable tenor of his posts. Being different from what others might expect doesn't justify the chip-on-the-shoulder, hair-trigger responses.</p>

509

<p>Hey, It's all good. As lmpw stated, there are other forums here for political discourse. We can get back to what I think the main theme is for this thread. Help and encouragement for other African-Americans navigating the college process and experience. Let's get back to our "regularly scheduled programming" here. (Smile)</p>

510

<p>Interestingly enough one of the serious issues I think we, as parents, must confront is the racial/political atmosphere on a college campus. It is our duty to send our kids out aware that the high school social/racial/political scene that they are accostomed to will likely be different. This includes several points on the spectrum. At one end the child who grew up in an all Euro/Asian environment who is navigating the HBCU. On the other end is the kid who is so completely assimilated that he/she shuns the AA kids on a racially mixed college campus who reach out with AA oriented clubs, etc. They must be prepared for all situations. (As an aside to the enduring strenghth of this--I still remember the time that a black guy pledged a white frat in college. This info carried through to law school where he was, again, alienated from the AA community).</p>

511

<p>I really don’t want to start a fire storm but to be honest…………..I’m ambivalent about the campus AA student organizations. It’s sad they we still need them. It’s sad that AA students who don’t actively participate in them are shunned or considered less Black. These organizations suggest AA students; their likes, dislikes, concerns, problems, etc are ALL the same, as if they are a monolithic group – not unique individuals. </p>

<p>I realize there are Jewish organizations on campuses but Jewish students who don’t join aren’t shunned by the Jewish students who belong. </p>

<p>Can we discuss this without getting “ugly”?</p>

512

<p>As a "white" onlooker to this thread, I've really appreciated the diversity of opinions and life experiences that have been mentioned here by participants who all self-identify as black. I think it's important for every American to be aware that there isn't just one black point of view (any more than there is just one white point of view :) ) or black experience, on or off campus. Thanks to all of you for providing with some more opportunity for self-education.</p>

513

<p>I'm not sure there's no more of a "need" for AA groups than there is for any affinity association. My alma mater offers affinity alum groups for bankers, lawyers, riders (the horsey set) and singers! </p>

<p>Certainly no one would be saddened by the existance of Hillel, Newman or other religious fellowship organization on campus or the existance of a women's group. So why should it be any different for AA student groups?</p>

514

<p>
[quote]
These organizations suggest AA students; their likes, dislikes, concerns, problems, etc are ALL the same, as if they are a monolithic group – not unique individuals.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Many of these organizations were spawned decades ago when, due to a number of reasons, AA experiences were much less diversified than they are today. The collective experiences of AA students from across the country had many more similarities than differences, and safety in numbers was understood as more of a survival mechanism. Cultural unity was felt to be an important issue then because that's how a lot of things got done. </p>

<p>That's not such a reality right now, but the vestiges of those days gone by still remain. Rightfully, they are often questioned, even challenged in the manner you have posed. I think that's fair. Yet, I also believe those organizations still serve a segment of students and should not be thought of or treated negatively. I do agree it is a shame that anyone would be shunned for choosing not to participate. The attitude of "your either with us or against us" is completely self-defeating.</p>

515

<p>^^^ ". . . but the vestiges of those days gone by still remain. . . . I also believe those organizations still serve a segment of students and should not be thought of or treated negatively. I do agree it is a shame that anyone would be shunned for choosing not to participate. " </p>

<p>Agreed, but - - thankfully - -I don't think there's nearly as much "shunning" as in the past. DD attends top LAC (5% AA) and, much to my chagrin, has not joined her campus AA group. Unlike many incoming students, she arrived on campus with a circle of friends (from boarding school) in attendance. That circle expanded when she joined the rugby team (one of two black members; also, one of three hetero members). She has not reported being shunned, though other AA students are somewhat surprised - - b/c they assume that they know all the AA students - - when they meet her in class or at larger social events.</p>

516

<p>This is a wonderful discussion and I'd loved to jump in. I'm at work and just don't have the time to say much at this point. I could write pages on this topic since I've spent my entire academic career on elite white college campuses. There is really nothing wrong with students participating in affinity groups. The only problem would be if this is the ONLY group they participated in. You need to know people like yourself as well as others. One of my Asian female students recently said to me that she didn't want to join the Asian Business women association because she didn't want to be viewed as just "Asian". Itold her I thought it was important to belong to the Asian women's network as well the larger Women MBA organization (I'm sure some women wouldn't even want to join the women's MBA group and just be active in the men's group). All of these networks are important. More later.</p>

517

<p>Impw, it's interesting to me that, like your Asian friend, some people will not join such groups primarily because they are self-conscious of how they might be sterotyped or defined by others as a result. For example, she did not want to join because she didn't want to be viewed as "just Asian." </p>

<p>I see a lot of irony in that because people predisposed to think that way will still do so on the basis of her physical features alone. There's not much one can do to change ignorant thinking of that sort. Thus, she likely proves and accomplishes nothing by avoiding that organization, just as she probably does not hurt her individuality as a result of joining it. </p>

<p>Yet, I understand that it is her own perception that matters most.</p>

518

<p>Just me speculating, but don't some of these types of situations perpetuate the very self segregation that on campus diversity initiatives hope to reduce and eliminate?</p>

519

<p>Madville, not really. There's a lot of literature on this and I also just from my own experience, I find that it really depends. I'm a product of the 60s and I love my people. Of course, I live and work in an intergrated setting and have friends and neighbors across racial lines. My daughter has always lived in integrated settings and attended predominately white schools. However, we attend Black churches and she use to attend the Harlem School of the Arts on the weekends when we lived in New York (she also went to the French Conservatory as well - primarily because her piano teacher taught there and we followed her). I'm friends with the mothers of the few Black girls who were in her high school class while my daughter really isn't friends with probably one of the black girls. They're friendly with one another but not best friends. They grew up not being concerned about race ( and we mothers always talk about this actually with some concern). We attended the cookout that the Black students hosted when she went to Amherst last year for orientation. I'm sure a lot of Black parents didn't. I'm always interested in meeting other Black parents while I'm sure some Black parents couldn't care less. I recalled when my daughter was accepted to Amherst, the class established a Facebook network. One of the first posts I recalled was a boy asking if there were any other Jews in the class. Then, someone else asked if there were any other Koreans, and the list expanded. People also inquired about people from the same city, state, etc. It seemed perfectly normal and not in anyway exclusive. My daughter was always annoyed when my ex-husband and I would ask her when she went somewhere how many other Black people were there. She always wanted to know why did it matter. We wanted to gage if she was always still one of the only Black students attending or being asked to be a part of something. I worry more about Black kids who seemed to go out of their way to avoid Black people - they refused to give you eye contact or make sure that they do nothing that even suggest that they acknowledge their background. As for my Asian student, she is undeniably Asian. It seems to me that its nothing but positive for her to have strong contacts with other Asian women MBA students as well as these other groups. I go to conferences that are mainstream as well as those specifically for women and people of color. Afterall, I'm a Black woman so I'm interested in connecting with all of these networks. I don't do any of these to the exclusion of the other. I noticed that there are so many Africans and students from the Caribbean that they have not estabished an African and Caribbean Club at Amherst this year. I actually think its positive. There are no end to the clubs on college campuses that connect people. Again, it's only problematic when students are made to feel as if they HAVE to belong to any of these groups. For some black kids, being around other Black students is new to them. For others, it's not. Our kids are very diverse and come with vast experiences. The college experience will expose them to all kinds of people - often including others like themselves. My daughter was really happy to find other middle-class Black kids who were like herself. She didn't have to feel like she had to explain or apologize for various experiences that she's been fortunate to have. They all speak correct grammar without fear of being putdown for "talking white", etc. So, for my daughter, meeting so many high achieving Black kids like herself was welcomed. She's not a novelty.</p>

520

<p>Last year I talked to an AA/Latino male who grew up with my son in a middle-class neighborhood and Catholic school, most of his years. He was pressured at his college to join the theme house for AA and other clubs. He felt bad saying No but didn't like segragating himself and didn't feel (in his personal instance) that he "fit" there. The music, likes/dislikes were more urban and he was more into a broader range of interests. He did go to some meetings, made some friends but skin color doesn't make someone a friend and he never segragated himself (although some white students were rude) He also turned down the summer programs for AA because again, it seemed like it was to bond "like with like" and help them prep for classes. He was lucky to go to a good school, and didn't need it, but the pressure again was to come. </p>

<p>The same student had a brother that took advantage on INROADS to help him get an internship but he wasn't expected to like or dislike certain things and wasn't put down for dressing or speaking a certain way. I think that's the biggest complaint of minorities that don't fit a stereotype that some have is that they are "wrong" for not conforming. No one should be made to feel like they are in a box.
Sometimes being funny helps. An Asian friend of my daughter wore a tee shirt one day to high school, with something like "No, I'm not brilliant", on it,because so many parents assumed she was ready to tutor their kids. You have to smile!</p>