<p>My D was admitted to her dream school, NYU. Because she was an URM and a NYS resident she was placed in the Opportunities program. She had to accept the conditions of the program or she wasn't admitted to the school. At first we were resentful because we felt she was being boxed into a stereotypical tracking program. We want to think that she was admitted based on her own merits as being an awesome student with high stats, high ranking,honors, excellent academic record, ec's, etc. But it makes one pause.
I understand that the program wants to ensure academic sucess for URM in the college setting. They offer free tutoring, workshops, yada yada. But when you think we have come this far and then to be placed in a collective cultural group academically is disconcerting. I know that students do benefit from this, but to just box everyone in is uncomfortable. We have come to accept this. She does get some perks out of the deal. Unfortunately it is the price you pay to get where you need to go.</p>
<p>milkandsugar, that's what this student felt also. He had the choice about the program,but had numerous calls about it. What I didn't like hearing it was that you had to follow up during the year, go to meetings, etc. I'm sure that is a welcome alternative for some, but if you were a strong student on your own, at least on par with a decent percentage of students of all races, it makes you stick out. This program seemed to make them noticable to other students and I can just hear a few comments like, "I knew he/she couldn't get here on their grades or "She/He only does well because of the tutoring". It wouldn't matter if other students not of color got tutoring, you still stick out. My friend actually called and asked if her child should go there, they must think he was lacking. They said, no, it was just extra help in adjusting etc. She went on that he was raised in a multi-ethnic middle-class neighborhood, had all A's, above average, (but not top SAT/ACTs) what was the problem? Other students got in with these grades and were white and didn't need help. It went in circles until she finally said, that money was alloted to this and she should really consider it with her son.
That said, if my child wanted to go to NYU and that was the only sticking point, I'd leave it up to him/her and begrudgingly accept it.</p>
<p>My D is bright and got into some very good schools, Johns Hopkins being one of them. They even offered her way more money, but she sucked it in and accepted what NYU offered because she wanted to go there in the worst way. It was a better fit for her. So she will go thru the motions. I think it is just for the freshman year that she has to attend meetings and workshops. She is quite annoyed at some of the meaningless things that she has to do. and yes, she is labelled as one of the Opportunities kids. She hates that.</p>
<p>M&S hats off to your D. I admire her inner core strength and am amused at the irony presented by NYU. In essesence they are saying her grades and board scores might be enough on their own but by "accident of birth" she has to accept this special status that by all appearances is not necessarily. WOW your D is a very mature young woman to recognize that NYU has the intellectual appeal where she thinks she will grow the most and her degree will not come with an Opportunities asterisk.</p>
<p>As to the changing winds of inclusionary groups on campus. I hope we are past the days of shunning. I bristle at the memories of campuses in the 1970s where there was only one "true" black voice and either you sang along or were excluded totally. However, what concerns me the most is here is a self selected group of students (no one forces anyone into a specific college). You would think that there would be some common ground to have people of each affinity group (Jews, Catholics, Asians) to say thank goodness I am in a situation where there are others who share more than one attribute with me. I remember how liberating it was to be surrounded by AA friends who also enjoyed classical music, skiing, etc (and other shall we say, non-traditional, interests). The cool part though is that we all lamented in finding a hair dresser.........</p>
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Because she was an URM and a NYS resident she was placed in the Opportunities program.
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<p>I really don't think that this is true at all because opportunity programs have specific guidelines for admissions (specifically income and SAT threshold scores that there is usually very little wiggle room for) and a student has to apply to an opportunity program (at NYU an invitation is extended to qualified applicants and does not simply get placed in to one) because of the limited number of seats available in them. This is especially true in NY, where they can fill the program a number of times over with qualified NYC students.</p>
<p>When students are told what the requirements are for the program and when you get accepted through the program (as many students may not have been accepted through the traditional route), you buy into adhering to the program guidelines.</p>
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I really don't think that this is true at all because opportunity programs have specific guidelines for admissions (specifically income and SAT threshold scores that there is usually very little wiggle room for) and a student has to apply to an opportunity program (at NYU an invitation is extended to qualified applicants and does not simply get placed in to one) because of the limited number of seats available in them. This is especially true in NY, where they can fill the program a number of times over with qualified NYC students.
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<p>I'm sorry but you are misinformed, there are 2 aspects to the Opportunities program, one of them has nothing to do with income.</p>
<p>You do not apply to the program. You are offered admission to NYU thru the program. If you do not accept admission thru the program then you are not admitted to NYU. Just went through all of this so I know what I am saying.</p>
<p>I am not marginalizing your experience going through the process with your child, I am just giving my perspective as a NYC public school guidance counselor working in a chapter 1 school. In order to effectively serve my case load, I know all of the both the HEOP and the CSTEP programs in NYC (especially at NYU as I have sent many students there and attend their HEOP and CSTEP programs and attend their workshop annually). </p>
<p>While CSTEP does not have the income guidelines that HEOP has, they do have academic guidelines as I have had students who could not get into CSTEP because their grades were above the academic threshold.</p>
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<p>CSTEP Eligibility</p>
<p>To be eligible for CSTEP at NYU, a first-time college applicant must meet the following requirements:</p>
<p>Apply for admission to a degree program </p>
<p>Be a New York State resident </p>
<p>Possess a high school diploma or equivalent </p>
<p>Possess a high school GPA of 3.0 or higher </p>
<p>Have a combined math & verbal SAT score between 1000 and 1250 </p>
<p>Have a strong desire for a career in a licensed profession</p>
<p>Be of African American, Latino, Native American, Alaskan descent or low-income students as deemed by state guidelines </p>
<p>Attend a one-on-one interview </p>
<p>Opportunity</a> Program Home
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Admissions</p>
<p>There is no separate application for NYU's Opportunity Programs. To apply for undergraduate admission to NYU and for consideration for Opportunity Programs, complete the following steps:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Fill out an NYU application. Your high school counselor can help with the completion of the application.</p></li>
<li><p>If you are a high school student, have your counselor mail your application to the Office of Undergraduate Admissions with your official high school transcript. GED graduates should forward the application to the APC with an original GED test score report.</p></li>
<li><p>Register early in your senior year for the SAT or ACT and have scores sent to NYU's Office of Undergraduate Admissions. (Although standardized test scores are not the only important consideration in determining eligibility, they are required for all freshman applicants with the exception of GED students.)</p></li>
<li><p>Obtain and complete a Free Application for Federal Student Aid (FAFSA). Mail the completed form to the processing agency. Send a copy to NYU’s Office of Undergraduate Admissions. New York State residents who file the FAFSA will automatically be sent a preprinted Tuition Assistance Program (TAP) application. Make sure NYU’s School code (002785) appears on the TAP application. Mail the completed application to the TAP processing center in Albany, NY. </p></li>
<li><p>*Potentially qualified applicants who are invited for an Opportunity Programs interview will be asked at that time to submit all supplemental materials (income verification and copies of financial aid forms filed, e.g. FAFSA, TAP). *
Opportunity</a> Program Home</p></li>
</ol>
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<p>I don't sense that there is any pressure or stigma at Amherst where my daughter goes to attend or participate in any activities targeted for or by Blacks or students of color. The place is so diverse and so are the Black students that one is free to do whatever without comments from others. Also, it appears that pressure to attend Black only organizations often are from students who come from backgrounds that are more segregated. So, this is their comfort level. I find on elite campuses, the bulk of the Black students come from integrated schools and are not fazed by being around whites and other students. In the past, white colleges use to have special orientations to "prepare" Black students for the cultural shock of being around white students. Since more and more Black students are either middle-class or from these integrated schools, those programs have faded. Amherst doesn't have a special orientation for minority students (I think it stopped about a decade ago). But, some colleges still do. When I taught at Barnard, I know they had one and I asked my Black students if they found it useful or insulting. Most said they liked it becasue it gave them an opportunity to meet other students of color. I have a friend whose daughter went to Yale and she attended a special orientation for students of color. This is a kid who had never been around Black students. My friend said his daughter really liked it. So, I guess all of this depends upon whether these events are optional versus mandatory.</p>
<p>Just got off the phone with the C-STEP liason for our school, who again told me this is the process:</p>
<p>Students apply to NYU throught the regular admissions process.</p>
<p>Admissions office then refers applications of students who they feel are good fits for the HEOP/C-STEP process. They loof for underrepresented students in certain target groups. C-step has a little more lattitude than HEOP (which must adhere to the income guidelines). However, they can look at and do accept non-URM students through C-step whose incomes fall into the HEOP guidelines.</p>
<p>Once the student is referred to C-STEP/HEOP a letter and an e-mail is sent to the student asking if they would like to be consered for the C-Step/ HEOP program and are invited to come in for an interview with HEOP (if they fit the income guidelines as more $$ is given through HEOP) or C-STE (which is not income sensitive). Once referred to the the opportunity program by admissions, the student is no longer considered in the pool of applicants for admissions to NYU (which is probably why NYU told your D that if she was interested in attending, she would have to come through the C-step process). Students are accepted during both the ED and RD rounds.</p>
<p>By the same token, once a student is out side of their max SAT threshold (which they will push to about 1300), the school will not refer a student to HEOP/C-Step who they feel would be admitted through the regular admissions process. </p>
<p>After students are referred to C-STEP/HEOP they go through the interview process and they submit the supplemental paperwork that is required by the programs. An admissions decision is made and the student receives the decison during the ED/RD process.</p>
<p>Even through STEP/C-STEP, it is still a competitive process because of the limted number of seats in the program and the large number of students referred to the program by NYU admissions. However once a person is admitted in to NYU it no longer matters how a student came in to the school becasue HEOP/C-step students are treated like any other students.</p>
<p>lmpw, my daughter had the same experience at her school that your daughter does. I think that there may have been more of a culture shock coming from the other way because she had met white students who had never gone to school or had one on one relationships with black students. Being a person from NYC and had family who lived in Brooklyn, she used be asked if she was ever in a gang, if she knew people who had been shot, did she know Biggie when he was alive</p>
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Being a person from NYC and had family who lived in Brooklyn, she used be asked if she was ever in a gang, if she knew people who had been shot, did she know Biggie when he was alive
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<p>Now that's both sad and funny. Shows the great impact of the media. That coupled with being in homogenous environments, help perpetuate negative stereotypes. It's why I'm a huge supporter of AA and diversity initiatives all over. I know many of you would agree that having interaction has a great potential of being mutually beneficial and profoundly impacting in a positive way the mindsets of differing ethnic groups.</p>
<p>Most colleges these days have a more holistic approach to diverstiy. They've moved away from just getting students of color "prepared" to function around whites. Now, as sybbie719 states, they find that really they need to get whites students prepared to function in a more diverse society. Many campuses have "diversty" requirements or activities for the entire student body. A white colleague of mine mentioned to me yesterday that she's teaching a diversity/social justice class to undergraduates and her frustration is that the class is always very silent - she said that none of the students (primarily white) will say anything or express any views that they feel may not be acceptable or PC. She asked if I would come for a guest lecture. It may be her style or the materials she's using. I have no clue. In my past experiences, students tend to have a LOT to say on issues of diversity and social justice. Actually, the movement is now towards social justice rather than making issues race specific.</p>
<p>I am surprised to hear that college ever had MANDATORY orientation prograams for students of color (as opposed to a special orientation for students admitted through a special program like c-step). Even in the 1970's, when I enrolled at a top LAC, the student of color orientation was voluntary and many of us attended so that we'd get to know other black/Latina entering first-years.</p>
<p>I also think, perhaps understandably, a reluctancee on the part of black students and their parents to acknowledge that the students were admitted with scores/grades below a particualr college's average. Certainly, black students are not the only students to benefit from a hook - - athletes, legacys, offspring of large donors, applicants from under-represented states and these days boys receive a similar bump. Indeed, elite schools RARELY admit only the students w/ the best numbers; in almost every case the admitted student brings something other than numbers to the table - - so the entring class is full of "lesser" students whom the college chose over objectively "more qualified" candidates (ie: those with the strongest numbers). The admitted students were just lucky enough to have something (or a combination of things) the college wanted. </p>
<p>It's really time for all parties to grow up - - admitted students (and parents) have to lose the we-deserve-to-be-here attitude and thoses whose applications were denied have to get the chip off their collective shoulder.</p>
<p>I'm sorry if I implied students HAD to attend these orientations. They were only mandatory for students in special programs. I hate singling out students who are "program" kids. It's really horrible. My brother who attended college back in the 70s was NOT a program student but he said all of his white professors assumed any Black student on campus was in some type of "special" program. I had friends at the U of ILlinois back in the 70s where I went to graduate school who were undergraduates there and they deeply resented always being assumed to be an EOP student. It was such a stigma. I think these institutions have evolved over time given the mistakes they've made in the recruitment and admissions of students of color. There is a very vibrant middle-class and students really are very different today. I can remember when few Black students I met (of course this was 20+ years ago "liked" going to certain colleges but they did for the degree). Now, I'm always amazed when students tell me they "love" these same institutions. So, either the institutions have dramatically changed or the types of students they're admitting or both. Students have a lot more opportunity to visit colleges, talk to current students and make more informed choices these days. Colleges want students who will succeed and not drop out and/or transfer. So, they really put a lot of effort into ensuring the right fit.</p>
<p>sybbie719, I am aware of the process of the Opportunities Program, I was referring to your information that was not correct which was Income does not matter for CStep and how a student is admitted thru the program. My response for the whole thing was responding to the discussion of stereotypes and AA communities on campus. I was talking about her expereince being put into a category because she is AA. Other people with her stats were admitted in the regular way but she was admitted because of her URM status.</p>
<p>The college programs that target minorities to "help" them really offend me. Like today I recieved something from Texas A&M that was about a black fraternity and stated something of the effect that I should stay in school and go to college and that if I needed help or felt like I could not handle it that I could have help or something like that.
It mad me so mad. The schools admission requirements are to be in the top 25% and get a 1300/1600 on the SAT, but somehow they felt I who am in the top 2.7% and got a 1440/1600 on the SAT needed help? I was mad as heck. Everytime I get something in the mail that talks about race as if I am handicapped because I am black I become infuriated. It is ridiculous and I find these programs extremely offensive.</p>
<p>Dbate, actually I'm going to agree with you. Often, institutions treat all Black students as if they're one monolithic group - they all need "help" and can't cope in the white world. But, I do think that most LAC colleges aren't like that now. I'm struck by the large number of middle and upper class black students who are now on these campuses. I think that social class differences amongst Black students have really increased. The admissions requirements for some of the top schools are so high that you really do have to come from very strong high schools and have had interesting ECs to get in. The days are over when colleges are simply looking for Black bodies (at least the top schools). They want to be able to show that these students are competitive and successful. If there is a high turnover rate, this reflects negatively on the college. That said, some Black students probably DO need help. My daughter had a similiar experience. She and a couple of her friends (one was accepted to Harvard, the other to Columbia and she to Amherst - all extremely middle-class kids with professional parents). THey all applied for this scholarship through a Black Greek letter organization (which none of them received). She said all of the students who applied (them and others) were called to a "special" meeting and told how to dress and speak in the upcoming interview and for them to be "sure" to be on time. My daughter and her friends were profoundly insulted. But, I guess the meeting was generic for all Black applicants and so perhaps there were some people who needed to be told how to dress and that they should show up on time.</p>
<p>I don't think it's right that you were targeted since it's clear that you don't need help. But, in a sense this is the reality of race in this country. Regardless of how often you point out that you're not the stereotype, because of your Black male status, you will be stereotyped in many ways.<br>
You should probably should go the private LAC route anyway. You sound very competitive and would get more individualized attention. But, of course, you may want a big school setting.</p>
<p>My son who is multi-racial got an invite from Holy Cross to attend a summer session and join a group (forgot the name) because he wasn't a white male. His grades were excellent, his scores were within their range, and he went to a good Catholic school. He didn't want to go. They called and wrote twice and he asked why and like other posters said, he was told it was to "get him ready and have him meet other minorities". He told them he was a middle-class student with friends from many various backgrounds, religions and races. They still were pushy and although he never loved the school, that really turned him off.</p>
<p>He read a book in junior high about a young black student Cedric Jennings that went to Brown with a 980 SAT and graduated with a high B average and then went on to attend 2 Ivy league colleges. They didn't coddle him and he had some bumps the first year....but it was "real". He respected that and showed potential always didn't match scores.
My son wondered why with Holy Cross, some great athletes he knew that were B students that got in, weren't offered a similar program. That can seem insulting no matter how you try to explain it.</p>
<p>Sigh... well my snowboarding, soccer playing, private school going , "how many stars for this hotel, mom?" son will take any help he can get, so send the extra's this way, please! Hope it's still around (if and) when he graduates! (class '11)</p>
<p>shrinkrap, exactly. Some people will welcomed these programs, others will not. My daughter did attend Amherst's Diversity Open House WEekend when she was a high school senior. However, it wasn't a weekend exclusively for kids of color. There were kids there from all kinds of backgrounds. The College defines diversity widely. This was a free trip to visit the campus while it was in session and it resulted in her applying and getting accepted early decision. So, it really just depends on what the activity and program is.</p>