<p>lol Ahmed were like the same. I think my SAT score is higher but im sure you have a higher rank</p>
<p>Amen FLVADAD on post 565 and Silvermoonlock on post 571!!!!</p>
<p>Post 565 and 571 are excellent.</p>
<p>Ahmendkoyram before you repost please think about not only the questions from FLVADAD but also what you want from a college education. The Ivy League schools different quite a bit in terms of what they offer students. Furthermore I think everyone will encourage to think broadly beyond the "Ancient Eight." Many folks on this thread (myself included) are big fans of the LACs. I assume you are URM?</p>
<p>Having said that with your stats and with a cohesive set of goals for your college education you are well suited to have a successful application experience.</p>
<p>I have two Ds. One is a high school senior and honor student, the other a sophomore at a large public state university. My older D was not a diligent student in high school, very middle of the pack, because she preferred to party instead of study. No APs, no Honors classes, just straight CP. She wanted no part of "elite" schools anyway, that just wasn't her "crowd." She got into her current university on the strength of her SAT scores which were solidly at the level of most white kids admitted to her school. She was offered "affirmative action" admission to another public university considered somewhat more academically prestigious, probably because she was an out-of-stater and needed slightly higher numbers to get in. I advised her to reject it because it was an affirmative action program. She would've had to report to the school's multicultural office periodically and agree to some other things. She took my advice and instead accepted "regular admission" to her own state's flagship university and is very happy.</p>
<p>Let me complete my thought (above)...I was timed out of editing.</p>
<p>We're a middle class family. I see no reason for middle class URM kids to accept special "affirmative action" admission to any school, even if t's Harvard. I think there is a difference between gaining admission in part because you bring diversity and gaining admission through a special affirmative action program. I'm not down on AA programs, but a middle class kid shouldn't need it. Save those places for poor, rural and inner city kids who could benefit most. That was the original purpose of Affirmative Action when first implemented in the early 70s.</p>
<p>We still have time, but I plan on not closing any 'financial" doors if I will help my son get a solid education. Ultimately, it will boil down to what is affordable for our family. My son is already standing out as one of a few Black (male) faces, in his classes. Whether the public perceives that he got into a "good" school through AA or not means nothing to me at this time. I want affordable, and him to be happy. Who knows, I may change my mind as we get closer to college lists, programs, and applying. </p>
<p>I was talking with 2 other Mothers on yesterday about in-state vs. out of state choices. Our sons are around the same ages, and all good students, and yes, all Black. One single, (me), one married, and one seperated. I found the conversation not to be so focused on programs, and name brand college choices, but on economics. What is affordable. The married lady stated that she had told her son, in-state only. Our state has some great choices in-state, so why go out of state. As for me, I am thinking in-state, but not ruling out, out of state. Hopefully, it will be a family decision, but I tell you, again, I don't have a problem with AA programs, if it will help my son.</p>
<p>In response to Post #585, I consider myself to be financially lower middle class. I don't consider myself to be poor, rural, nor inner city. We live in the city limits of our mid sized southern town, in a suburban type neighborhood. My kid may need that AA program, (depending upon the program, his interests, and affordability). But then I am responding as a one parent household. I intend on closing no doors. They are all up for review.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I advised her to reject it because it was an affirmative action program.
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</p>
<p>How does one know it is an afirmative action program if offered admission?</p>
<p>That is the exact question I am wondering too, milkandsugar.</p>
<p>AA seems to be a bit confusing to me. With schools always wanting to increase diversity, it seems hard to discern between if someone is admitted through an AA "program" or simply because they were a qualified, strong, and sought after individual.</p>
<p>And to take the question a step further. What actually institues a program being "AA"? To me it seems like most programs are diversity initiatives but not neccessarily Affirmative Action.</p>
<p>Great point. How does one differentiate between the two if it's not put right out there that "THIS IS..."</p>
<p>I think some might say it will be reflected by a statistically significant difference in your childs "numbers", compared to "the middle 50 percent". Of course the "rest of the application" could explain the difference, but that can include race at some schools too...</p>
<p>I think we've rolled back to the definition of middle-class. Middle-class where I live can include 2 parents who work on the assembly line making in excess of $100k each with overtime.</p>
<p>I also think thay any assistance to work the transistion from high school to college is a bonus.</p>
<p>Back in the ice age of AA, we were all clumped into UM's program. We came from many schools in the metro area. The name brands, scary publics and everything in between. Our parents were professionals, domestics and everything in bewteen.</p>
<p>The program helped us to adjust, honed our study habits, helped us with picking classes. Sent us to a summer program to get a leg up.</p>
<p>Some got financial aid. I didn't. My dad wasn't about to let anyone see his financials, but I still participated in the program. Did it help? Of course it did. We were prepared for the campus when we arrived. We knew our advisors when we got to campus, and we knew who to go to for any kind of issues.</p>
<p>Now we have people saying this isn't good because......????</p>
<p>The question is who should be targetted for these programs now? What is the criteria? Clearly you can't rule out middle-class, because you cannot make the assumption that all middle blacks send thier chidren to private schools and inisist and support the EC's and make sure their children are exposed to a variety of experiences.</p>
<p>no matter what "door" your student walks into a college through 2 things will remain:</p>
<p>No school will accept a student that they feel will not be successful and graduate.</p>
<p>Once you get there, it is game on and you will be held to the same standards that everyone else is held to regardless of race.</p>
<p>Amen, Sybbie719, and you too Silvermoonlock. If my son's walking through the doors of the college of his choice has been aided by a "program" that society may look on as an AA program, then I could give a rats you know what. Why are some of us now looking down on AA programs, whether they are helping those stereotypical parts of the population or not. AA does not stipulate 1st generation college and no one else. Poor, urban, and no one else. Each of these programs, (including the "diversity" labeled ones), are different. What may be for you, may not be for me. That's the beauty of it all. </p>
<p>Side note: I think I love this board. :)</p>
<p>For me, the uncomfortable part of these initiatives is grappling with what the low standardized testing scores mean. (Yes, I know about most, if not all the theories, and even have a few of my own...)So uncomfortable for me, I hesitate to even post this. While my own family doesn't struggle with it, it is still there for me, in the background. As long as it is there, I worry about a society that may some day base leadership solely on scores. I imagine a society in an unhappy, violent struggle. So for right now, I'm for giving ALL versions of AA the benefit of the doubt.</p>
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But aside a side, Amherst and small schools do not have as much of the research dollars as I would like, I really want to be involved in science research during my undergrad years.
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<p>Dbate, I would advise that there are probably better chances for science research as an undergraduate at an LAC or similarly small school. I'm sure there are professors at Yale who do not get the reseach dollars they need or want much less a lowly undergraduate whose optimism may be needlessly misplaced (since you do want to be a number and all). Furthermore, there is much more competition for research funds because there are graduate students to contend with as well. At major research universities, the bread and butter comes from the research being conducted by professors and their graduate students as they contribute to journals or other publications of sorts including books. </p>
<p>Whereas at an LAC or an Ivy focused on undergraduate education (ie. Dartmouth, Brown, and Princeton), there is greater freedom to engage with professors and foster relationships that make research and thus the receipt of research funds possible.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Once you get there, it is game on and you will be held to the same standards that everyone else is held to regardless of race.
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</p>
<p>I'm with all the posters as to keeping all options open for college admissions. If the school is a good fit, offers what your child needs and want to give you money to boot, then I am all for it. Everything else can be put aside.</p>
<p>Milk and Sugar: To answer your question, the way I knew it was an affirmative action program is because the school said it. It was actually in their "conditional admission" letter. The university's letter stated (I'm paraphrasing) she would be admitted through the "Equal Opportunity Office" and it's multicultural program, but she would have to sign an agreement. That agreement required her to check in periodically with the Multicultural/Equal Opportunity Office, etc. ,etc. I was surprised too. Why should she have to "report in periodically?" So I told her to tear it up. She did. </p>
<p>I'm not going to embarress the school by revealing the name, but it was a well known, very large, and very respected upper midwest university, the flagship campus of that state. Average incoming GPA for freshmen was in the 3.4 - 3.6 range and pretty SAT scores. It was not a slouch school where everybody gets in. My D's GPA was in the mid-2s, a long way from the average. But somehow she managed an SAT that matched the mean for students admitted "through regular admissions." Combine that with her being a minority and she got the letter I mentioned above. She had applied through the normal process/online application. They asked for EEO data on the application and she checked two boxes, "white" and "black." That's how they knew. I can't believe a school this prominent is the only one in the country that does this. </p>
<p>Again, I am not down on AA programs. All I said was that I agree with Barack Obama. He's in favor of making them economic based instead of race based. He didn't say he would push for it if elected president (nor would I) but he did say he favored that change, which means he would not oppose such a change if Congress put it forward. I agree.</p>
<p>I understand now. However, if it was D dream school and if it was a fit, and I thought D was up to the academic challenge and they gave money, I don't know if we could turn away. What we do for an education.</p>
<p>I've found diversity programs vary by school and what they want. Some are summer prep programs with additional time in school (contracted) Some are a special orientation, some are for URM's and some seperate first generation for special info on aid etc. (includes parents) My son's friend wouldn't sign a contract either feeling like he was wearing a special letter on his shirt. He said you either give me a chance and I get help the same way every student does, a tutor, writing center, etc. or forget it. Give me a gpa cut-off, but not special meetings and groups I have to go too.
Wheaten MA actually had a diversity overnight on their web site and someone I know called about it and they were told it was "invitation only"and when her daughter wasn't invited, she inquired why. They said she didn't fit the criteria which was actually a good thing. They were more urban, students with great potential, but rough spots. She did get a scholarship for URM's though.
I wouldn't turn down money either if someone wanted my son/daughter for diversity and because they thought they would excel, but I don't know if any of them would want to stick out by being labeled in an obvious way as having more potential to fail. Maybe if it was done in a quieter way, but some colleges make it obvious and I think fuel the tension between some students even more.</p>