<p>I have been reading the posts here for some time and would like to pose a question of my own. Our S (current junior, Jesuit college prep high school in Chicago) participated in a baseball showcase tournament in the southeast this summer and received his first introduction to Rhodes College, among many other institutions. He was impressed with Rhodes and everything that the coaches at this event appeared to represent. In researching the school, I am impressed as well. It satisfies my own preference for S for a first tier undergrad LAC, S's father is happy that it has a business program (which he may or may not take advantage of but "it's on hand") and our S seems to think that everything, including the baseball program, has much potential (loves the ubran setting too as he has grown accustomed to this). I was wondering if anyone with experience here who has evaluated the LACs in the Midwest (Denison, Kenyon, Carleton, DePauw, etc.) could provide some insight as to why Rhodes would justify what will amount to extensive commuting and more complicated logistics in general. Based on my review of other posts and sights such as princetonreview, US news and world reports, Fiske Guide, etc. I feel like this school is an absolute gem and relatively undiscovered in the Midwest, but would greatly appreciate additional feedback. Please note also that I think our S will probably go on to law school, and it would appear that Rhodes students are successful in the law school app regard. Anyone have a sense of which well-respected law schools heavily recruit at Rhodes? Many thanks for your insights...</p>
<p>Rhodes is an interesting place and as you've noted, a hidden gem. My personal view, based on experience & time is that'll not change. Memphis is Memphis. Here are strengths I see, having worked there a number of seasons:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Biggest strength-Good financial aid for good, if not great students from middle class homes with decent incomes, not necessarily wealthy ...they must "buy" good students and they do. You'll be happy about this, and much more so than some of the other places.</p></li>
<li><p>The campus is spectacular because of the policy of maintaining the structural continuity and stone type. Absolutely beautiful. Library is superb and new. Security is an issue because of location. Greeks are benign, mostly. A VERY different campus climate than a W&L, Davidson, Vandy, Centre. </p></li>
<li><p>Academically very solid and liberal artsy. The bus program is ho-hum, but its location helps enormously for internship possibilities. Students are very engaged and active. If you're into Eudora Welty or Tennessee Williams, go for it. Students are really nice bunch. A very gay friendly type place; less so if one is gay and of color. Virtually no spiritual presence; socially very liberal, preppy, which are somewhat contradictory.</p></li>
<li><p>Lots of local support with virtually no immediate competition. That matters little for you, coming from Chicago.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>In my view here are some of the downsides ...</p>
<ol>
<li><p>It's in Memphis. And there's nothing you can do about that. A somewhat rough city and some of those neighborhoods border the campus. It's a checkerboard effect of good and not so good, caused by the racial mix and historically awful public transportation which required the very poor living in close proximity to those households that traditionally employ them. Nothing you can do of that. You'll not go far off campus, walking.</p></li>
<li><p>It's a somewhat "feminine" campus. For many years the campus leaders have been women. I think this has improved in recent years because of several presidential initiatives to transform it into a more traditional, masculine collegiate environment. Just look at the honor presidents and top student photos.</p></li>
<li><p>Athletics are very ho hum, and baseball has traditionally been one of the most ho hummers, if that's really important to your son. See item #6.</p></li>
<li><p>Your concern for logistics is quite real. Try getting in and out of Memphis on the cheap. You won't. The locals always talk about Memphis being close to nothing, "down in a hole." And it is. Nothing of any consequence. And Memphis, while we had many good friends, church, experiences, remains a very poor, underdeveloped city. Check out Beale St. which has been a major "project" for well over 30 years. It's no place special, imo. Some good music, but you'll be careful going down there at night.</p></li>
<li><p>It's still pretty MidSouth. And this cuts both ways. It's not a place most business and industry has high on the radar, aside from Int Paper, FedEx, and a few others. Ag is huge. But the upside is that for people with education, ambition Memphis has opportunity. Far more so than many better known towns of similar size. Why? Huge population of poor, undereducated people ...black and white.</p></li>
<li><p>Did I mention it's in Memphis? Great if you're an Elvis fan! Really.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>Rhodes aka Southwestern @ Memphis (and once located in Clarksville, where Austin Peay is now) is a relative Johnny come lately to the LAC scene beyond the MidSouth. Traditionally its competitors were Millsaps, Hendrix, Arkansas now Lyon College, Centre, Sewanee (U.South). A gift of $20M from the Bellingrath family in Mobile AL, which arrived in the early '80s really helped to escalate the College, change the confusing name, and put it a bit more on the map. But it's not made the PR/position change they'd hoped would result in the market place since that time. And this is the source/issue/strategy that really brings great FA to decent, middle and upper class students. Gotta pay 'em big to come there. </p>
<p>For awhile they tried to play Wash U, CMU, Hofstra, U.Chicago, Trinity (TX) type places in athletics which was a pipedream. First of all, most of these places have ho hum athletics, but spectacular, nationally recognized academic reps. And of course, that was the whole idea ...guilt by association. But it it was outrageously expensive getting teams to NYC, Pgh, Chitown, San Antone, even St. Lou. And so that soon fizzled, especially when all sports are revenue losers playing to virtually empty seats in virtually every sport. </p>
<p>It's long been recognized as a fine LAC, and it genuinely is. Students get a fine, engaging experience. But it's tough changing or even minimizing the spots on this leopard ... it's in Memphis, which is better than Clarksville. It's a very good place but not great, especially in the more vocational areas. For premed prelaw, a very fine place. They've had a number of very good, notable students who've gone on to great things ... Rhodes Scholars (btw, the name is for Dr. Peyton Rhodes, a very decent physics prof-dean-eventual president who was OK but not particularly notable aside from one thing ...he had THE right name. When they were changing the name, the 2 finalists were ... Rhodes or Bellingrath College. And Mr. Bellingrath was dead with no heirs to his Coke bottling fortune. You pick. In fact it was a wired selection.</p>
<p>It'd be tough to see RC as meriting high consideration on the basis of baseball. Really. But it's a very fine place, lots of good neat things. Dedicated teaching faculty with a few minor stars. Educationally you won't go wrong if you're looking for a decent LAC. They'd really love to be Davidson. If you're looking there, check out Centre.</p>
<p>btw, we've checked out most of the other schools you've noted, picked one. PM me if you'd like a few observations on them.</p>
<p>You might want to PM Curmudgeon. His daughter had a wonderful experience there.</p>
<p>My daughter is a freshman at Rhodes--so far, so good. She chose Rhodes over Wash U, Rice, Whitman, Trinity U, and Hendrix. Some of her reasons were 1) a full-tuition scholarship, 2) availability of active Christian groups that weren't too conservative, 3) location in Memphis--many opportunities to volunteer in ways that will have a positive impact on those who need it most (and a not too cold climate), and 4) strong science programs as well as a number of world languages. So she sees a few of Whistle Pig's negatives as positives! I can't comment about the sports, although her roommate is an athlete. We live about 1000 miles away. There are a few direct (and increasingly expensive) flights, but we have family in the area and have traveled there for years--I guess we're just used to it. I believe it is easier and less expensive for her to get to than some of the LACs located in rural areas.</p>
<p>Good points.Your dd's obviously exactly what RC desires and is willing to "pay for." That's a huge benefit to students and their families, and illustrates what I consider a great strength @ Rhodes...loads of FA. I'd be very surprised if she received anything comparable at WUSL or Rice. Don't know of Whitman, but Trinity has LONG had the same strategy and Hendrix to a lesser degree, (of buying good students ...Texas A&M did it for years) as it has not been a national player to any degree. So like you say, Memphis is both a + and a - ...depending upon how you're looking. And it could well be cheaper to get to Memphis than to Conway Arkansas or Jackson, MS or Danville KY from say ...well just about anyplace 1,000 miles away. But it's way more expensive than flying to St. Lou, Chicago, New Orleans, Dallas, or other major metro areas. Memphis is just not a popular destination and thus it is very costly to get in and out. Indeed there are MANY very meaningful service programs in Memphis due to its ample poverty and historical racial discord. We found the Christian influence extremely weak but our view is that there is no such thing as conservative or liberal Christianity. But to shyparentalunit's view, which I'd concur with, RC's historical and current ties to the Presbyterian USA Church reflect precisely what's going on in that mainline denomination. The denomination's losing tens of thousands of parishoners and hundreds of congregations annually because it is liberal leaning and increasingly meaningless to its members who are wandering away in droves. That said, there are a number of very vibrant Christian churches of various denominations in Memphis. The bottom line for Rhodes students is that God is everywhere, even there, waiting to be found. But the College does virtually nothing to nurture that component anymore, like many of its peer institutions.</p>
<p>And btw, let me add ...again...I think RC offers a wondeful, even exceptionally engaging undergrad LAC experience. I've long contended that if was in St. L, Raleigh, Orlando, Atlanta, Louisville, Detroit, etc. etc. etc. ... it would be among the top 20 LACs in the nation. But alas, as the realtors know, the 3 single most important things to consider ... can be ... location, location, .... And consider this ...we were willing to move to Memphis to be part of that for a time. And had a very wonderful experience. So too can many students ...and will. But RC has some unusual strengths and challenges.</p>
<p>I'm glad to see a discussion picking up here. My son is considering Rhodes, too, although for us it would be among the easier-to-get-to schools he is applying to. </p>
<p>Shyparentalunit, you might know (or anyone else) about how Rhodes awards merit aid. I don't think my son's stats would make him competitive for the full-ride awards, but how "good" are the students Rhodes is buying with merit aid?</p>
<p>I've seen some very thoughtful comments, and I agree that it's good to see the attention that Rhodes is now getting.</p>
<p>My son started there this fall. He looked at Vandy, Duke, UNC-Chapel Hill, Rice, WashU, along with some LACs like Trinity U, Hendrix, Tulsa.</p>
<p>We were merit aid driven, and quickly determined that chances for significant merit aid at most of those schools was slim, although he probably could have gotten in to one or two of the big names.</p>
<p>But he visited Rhodes and fell in love with it. He loved the campus, and seemed to really click with the "type" of student than inhabits Rhodes. (Still not sure what that "type" is, myself. I guess essentially preppy, smart, and generally upper income fwiw. Socially liberal and economically conservative I gather, although generalizations are always risky.)</p>
<p>I travel for my job just about every week, and spend about 1/5 of my professional life in airports it seems. I do not find the "logistics" of Rhodes any worse than any other city, in terms of convenience. In fact much better than most because it's a Northwest hub. But yes, it is more expense since Northwest has a virtual monopoly there. My response has been to switch my allegiance to Northwest (from American) and rack up the points there. But that's me...</p>
<p>I do want to differ with Whistle Pig's comments about Beale St: It <em>is</em> special, if you like music. If you are not into jazz or blues, I agree that it's essentially irrelevant and you can disregard.... But if you <em>are</em> into the roots of one of America's most culturally significant innovations, ie. jazz and blues, then Memphis in general and Beale St in particular are key destinations. Even Congress recognizes this, and declared Beale St "the Home of the Blues" in 1977. </p>
<p>Also, Beale St and the entire downtown area has become much safer since strenous law enforcement efforts began, several years ago. I have now been there several times and have never been any more concerned about my own safety, or my wife or son's safety, than in any other well-maintained downtown area. </p>
<p>I'll add one other observation about service at Rhodes: someone else in a different thread (maybe Curmudgeon?) observed that "service is a religion" at Rhodes, and I believe it's true. Yes, there are massive service opportunities in and around Memphis. And Rhodes capitalizes on that and delivers, I believe, both meaningful change to the wider community as well as fantastic opportunities to its students.</p>
<p>So our conclusion has been that Rhodes is very much "worth it"; yes, it is out of the way in Memphis. But the quality of the campus and undergraduate life, the academics, the internship and service opportunities, proximity to a large city with all that entails, not to mention the merit aid, won us over. For us, it was a great fit.</p>
<p>Already, the big merit winners have routinely turned down significant other offers from full-rides to HYP admission. Some parents have assumed incorrectly (and I'm talking about the past, nobody here) that a 32 ACT would slot them in for big money at little, easy to get into RC. It may happen, but some go away not that happy. Almost insulted. According to my D "the top 20% or so of the Rhodes kids are as accomplished as the top 20% anywhere". And she's been to a lot of colleges and conferences and competitions.</p>
<p>By way of explanation (pardon if it sounds like bragging. I'm not. It was a long time ago now.;)) a kid I know well was the Val, had a 35 with a 36 Math, toughest schedule in the history of her school showing substantial individual iniatitive sourcing outside courses with still having the highest GPA in school memory , big rec's, big ec's including state champ BB co-captain and 4 yr starter , yadda, yadda, yadda more good stuff.</p>
<p>Yep, she won the big one at Rhodes but - and here's the reason for the post - **she did not get huge or even very large scholarships at Hendrix (they later called with a new "offer"), Millsaps, or Centre <a href="with%20only%20Centre%20being%20a%20directly%20competitive%20peer">/b</a>. She was left feeling the way lots of very accomplished kids are left feeling about their Rhodes merit award. "Wait a second? What the Hell happened here?" Well, dear like I said a while back, the big awards at great schools are lots more competitive than Harvard and rare as hen's teeth. She did get top awards at other schools (some would say more impressive schools). An interesting side note - an impressive grade school chum from their teeny Montessori school won the top award at Centre but not Rhodes. Go figure. </p>
<p>If you are looking for over 1/2 tuition and have HYP stats , apply widely and to a range of schools. You never know. </p>
<p>In my D's year, 9 of the @ 20 kids who were invited to the Bellingrath Weekend chose RC while only 3 secured the award. </p>
<p>Hope this helps. IMO, Rhodes is very generous with their merit awards, just don't think it's easy as some on CC seem to think.</p>
<p>Bragging for a purpose continues :</p>
<p>This college stuff is all a bit hard to grasp (even after the hundreds of hours I've invested). Example - she won the Top (generally available) Awards at 7 schools, got into Yale RD when it was a 7.4% shot, Amherst, was an AMS scholar at Colgate, and .....(wait for it) ....was waitlisted at Duke after what she thought was a great interview where they mentioned her competitiveness for one of their awards.</p>
<p>Apply widely if merit is a need in your family as it was in mine. And certainly apply to Rhodes. It's a great school and doing wonderful things for my D. She is still over the moon in love with the place. (Just was invited to present a poster in S.F. over Xmas at an ASCB Cell Biology annual meeting- all expenses paid. Unbelievable. My school would have paid me to leave but it's not quite the same thing. ;)) </p>
<p>OT: My D applied to 14 schools. Need aid varied by $14k/yr (apply widely here , too if you have a 30 page return ;)) at the 100% of need schools. (Yale and Amherst were the worst). She sent her "No" to the Duke waitlist about 11 seconds after she got it. LOL.</p>
<p>I would second Cur's comments about the competition for the big scholarships at Rhodes. My D had a 35 ACT, good ecs, 14 APs, several college classes, etc. (We also don't live in the South, and I think that gives a slight edge since they need geographic diversity.) I really don't know about the stats of kids who receive merit aid in lesser amounts. Her early impression is that there are plenty of really smart kids there.</p>
<p>I'll add to what Curmudgeon says - my daughter applied the same year - top 5%, 2250 SAT, 10 or 11 APs, great ECs, etc. She was not selected to interview for the Bellingrath. She did get a nice scholarship offer, but it was not one of top levels of scholarships. The competition is quite fierce for the merit money at Rhodes!</p>
<p>ffscout, as you know it's tough at Hendrix, Millsaps, Birmingham-Southern, Trinity, well...it's tough all over in big merit world at good schools. Kids who get into great Top Ten schools (like a kid close to you ;)) are NOT shoo-ins for the big money. Thanks for posting.</p>
<p>
[quote]
The competition is quite fierce for the merit money at Rhodes!
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Experience, observation and even many the "lists" (See 22 August 2008 issue of U.S. News and World Report ...lists RC among the top LACs for merit aid.) suggest otherwise. My own suggests RC is among the most generous, as noted above. </p>
<p>Of course those top awards are extremely competitive, and on a sliding scale. The more "selective" the institution, the more competitive getting one of those. It's a statistical truth and harsh reality to lots of folks persuaded "MY STUDENT" hung that moon! REALLY!! </p>
<p>And indeed, there are many bright, capable students at RC, who will go on to great things. His dd is the very tip of the iceberg though; and what an impressive "tip." Congrats. But there are not many like her there ...or many places beyond Palo Alto, Princeton, and Cambridge. She's the **** of the walk in Memphis, for sure.</p>
<p>So what's my point? This is a relative game, but there are some "truths" to indeed a very fuzzy issue. I'm no proponent of the lists as attempting to measure quality ... "My school's bettern yours." That is pure bunk, PR, and ego-posturing. Nothing more and is virtually useless in helping families to predict "success" and value-addedness that any institution might contribute to any one particular student, specifically MY particular student.</p>
<p>BUT ...on the $$ lists, those can lend genuine insight that's not based on what President Snooty or Professor Stuffy "thinks." I've talked to way too many of both to attribute any collective wisdom to them re: anyone's child or personal situation.</p>
<p>So check out the lists carefully. They really can help on this specific issue.</p>
<p>But one piece of counsel that did have merit and value that I once received from one of my teachers ... "Pay attention when you begin to hear similar stories from multiple, diverse sources. It could be you're getting closer to the truth." I've always found that to be pretty good advice.</p>
<p>And the other piece of absolutely superb advice that came from my grandfather, who was neither a college prexy, nor pompous prof ...</p>
<p>"Ain't no free lunch." :eek: </p>
<p>How right on he was. There is ALWAYS a trade, but not always a trade-off. Look for the place that fits your student, recognizes and rewards your student, and contributes to their lifelong self-esteem and character foundation as they recognize via these awards ... "Hey, MY school wanted ME, and above and beyond that, I was able to pay for, significantly contribute to the incredible cost of this purchase made solely for me." And for a whole bunch of kids, it should not be forgotten, ignored or allowed to go unrecognized/unacknowledged that ... just like WE love our children, THEY love us (at least some of the time :confused:). And there is nothing wrong at all at using this once in a lifetime experience, piece of life's journey, to both build self-esteem and create a monumental opportunity for students to say, "Love you Dad, Mom. Pretty cool I got a pretty cool scholarship to ... Screw Yale, Wash U., and U.Chicago! We'll kill 'em in tiddly winks. ;) "</p>
<p>And in the end...one thing we all know, aside from that occasional crochet tournament @ the Club, or sitting with Mrs. Snotnose at the bridge club and trying to sound smart about our offsprung's matriculation ...none of which makes one bit of difference to our students...the ONLY thing that will really matter is what kind of experience did they have? Did they learn, grow, become the butterflies we hope? Did it serve to get them on to the next step, lend them memories and relationships that will last a lifetime, nurture values that will determine how they will live and see their world.</p>
<p>WhistlePig, let me amend my earlier statement - the competition is fierce for the top scholarships at Rhodes (Bellingrath, Morse, Cambridge). But you are correct that Rhodes does have a very generous merit aid program. What I was trying to show (between Curmudgeon's daughter and mine) is an example of what statistics make the cut for the top scholarships and what don't.</p>
<p>My daughter really liked Rhodes and had a very tough decision. And I wish I had known about Rhodes when I was looking at colleges.</p>
<p>fly ... don't know your age, but Rhodes has only existed as such, since, 1985.</p>
<p>ifn you're a strong, bright female student, interested in genuine LA type place, you'd love it. Again, I've long been impressed with the educational experience students predisposed to fitting into that particular, even "unique" campus culture. But it's not for all. Most definitely an under-known gem with one of the prettiest little urban campuses anywhere. And ...generous FA.</p>
<p>But again, there are reasons for this. It's no free lunch.</p>
<p>I'm not always sure of whistlepig's motivations (and I'm not asking here) but many points wp makes are unassailable. I'll address one of those and then draw a distinction.</p>
<p>At Rhodes (or insert quality merit aid school of your choice) those receiving the top awards are expected to "perform" in ways to bring acclaim to the campus. Rhodes goes as far as making some awards a Fellowship, expressing in writing that they expect something for their investment in you. For my D that includes attendance at what I'll call "donor functions". D not only doesn't mind the opportunity to be invited to these functions, she has made contacts which may prove very "valuable" to her in later life. </p>
<p>You are representing your school, wearing their colors. You become the face of Rhodes. A student needs to be aware of those responsibilities. My D wrote the Trust that funded her award and told them that she would take full advantage of what they had so graciously provided her, and that she wouldn't let them down. </p>
<p>Now, I'll pick a nit with wp. While unarguably my D is a fine student , she is certainly not a lonely specimen on campus. She is not even the lone impressive female junior science major. She has some VERY serious competition and a search for last year's other two Goldwater winners will attest mightily to that. And there are many others. She really feels the top 20% are the equal of students anywhere and if that critical mass wasn't there she wouldn't be there either. It would have been a deal killer, even with the award.</p>