<p>Cambridge is actually the Yale of the UK. I'd take Cambridge over Berkeley any day, especially since I'm more humanities focused. I don't know about Cambridge's grade inflation/deflation, but Berkeley has some severe grade deflation in the engineering/sciences. If you want to go to grad school, go to the school where you feel you'll get the highest GPA.</p>
<p>it seems like everyone hear say cambridge just because of its name..</p>
<p>I would say Berkeley because of Bay Area : ) It's more convenient to do internship! Think Google...</p>
<p>Actually Oxford is more similar to Yale and Cambridge more similar to Harvard because Yale focuses more on the humanities while Harvard is more science-intensive.</p>
<p>Academically speaking Cambridge outranks Oxford in most subjects, but Oxford is still more internationally renowned due to aristocratic legacy and a tradition of class divide. The undergraduate population is still somewhat socially divided, with the blue blooded and "public school kids" intermingling and those of the "working class" socializing together. My father studied at Oxford, but since he was of the "working class" and not blue-blooded he said that there was still prejudice towards him. </p>
<p>Anyway this is irrelevant, but Cambridge is academically superior to every British institution and Berkeley.</p>
<p>Harvard more science intensive? Harvard humanities is world-renowned; I don't think one would venture to say Yale English is superior to Harvard English.</p>
<p>The reason Cambridge is the Yale of the UK is because former Oxford students detached themselves from their alma mater and founded Cambridge, and former Harvard students did the same and founded Yale. There is a historical reason behind this comparison.</p>
<p>Yale's famous for the humanities, not science. Just check out the rankings for humanities graduate programs on USNews. </p>
<p>Your reason for comparing Cambridge with Yale and Oxford with Harvard is taken out-of-context and irrelevant. Cambridge is stronger in the sciences than Oxford, as Harvard is stronger in the sciences than Yale.</p>
<p>The only reasonable comparison for Harvard and Oxford is that both have more name recognition than Yale and Cambridge.</p>
<p>Many of the uneducated British laymen know exactly what Oxford is, but barely blink at the mention of Cambridge.</p>
<p>(However, Cambridge is academically superior to Oxford while both are equally competitive for admissions. In fact, British students can only apply to one of the two since both require special admissions process and teachers are notified of applicants.)</p>
<p>As for name recognition, Harvard is--well--Harvard.</p>
<p>This Harvard-Yale-Oxford-Cambridge comparison argument is silly. You can't really make any such comparisons between the Oxbridge and Ivy League systems because they're totally different. It's comparing apples to oranges. </p>
<p>
[quote]
The reason Cambridge is the Yale of the UK is because former Oxford students detached themselves from their alma mater and founded Cambridge, and former Harvard students did the same and founded Yale. There is a historical reason behind this comparison.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Well, Harvard was setup by academics from Cambridge (hence the name of Cambridge, Mass) so by your logic doesn't that make Harvard more like Cambridge? ;-)</p>
<p>
[quote]
Yale's famous for the humanities, not science. Just check out the rankings for humanities graduate programs on USNews.
[/quote]
I never said Yale was famous for science.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Your reason for comparing Cambridge with Yale and Oxford with Harvard is taken out-of-context and irrelevant.
[/quote]
How is it out-of-context and irrelevant? Your reasoning behind your argument seems arbitrary as well. Cambridge did not develop into a science powerhouse until the mid 20th century. What criteria determines which college is tied to another college?</p>
<p>That ministers left Harvard to found Yale and that scholars left Oxford to found Cambridge are facts; this is a valid comparison.</p>
<p>Take a look at this article from the Yale Daily News:</p>
<p>Yale</a> Daily News - In expanding, Yale should follow Cambridge lead</p>
<p>
[quote]
Yale stands at its first key crossroads of the 21st century, yet its decision process still lacks transparency, serves undefined strategic goals and risks ignoring the vigorous educational innovation, ironically, at one of its original paragons: Cambridge.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>The article also mentions how Yale based its college system on the Oxbridge model, so therefore Yale has ties to both Oxford and Cambridge, as does Harvard. Thus, Yale/Harvard and Oxbridge all have ties to each other in some way or another and direct comparisons and ties are irrelevant as neither of us are an authority figure on this subject. </p>
<p>Also, that Harvard has superior sciences to Yale does not mean Harvard is "more science-intensive", implying that Harvard focuses more on sciences than humanities.</p>
<p>
[quote]
How is it out-of-context and irrelevant? Your reasoning behind your argument seems arbitrary as well. Cambridge did not develop into a science powerhouse until the mid 20th century. What criteria determines which college is tied to another college?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I'm using rankings. In totality, Cambridge is ranked above Oxford as Harvard is ranked above Yale. For the sciences Cambridge dominates relative to Oxford. For the sciences Harvard dominates relative to Yale. </p>
<p>
[quote]
The article also mentions how Yale based its college system on the Oxbridge model, so therefore Yale has ties to both Oxford and Cambridge, as does Harvard. Thus, Yale/Harvard and Oxbridge all have ties to each other in some way or another and direct comparisons and ties are irrelevant as neither of us are an authority figure on this subject.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>You totally changed your stance when rocketman08 pointed at the Cambridge-Harvard tie and you discovered this article. Now "all" are related to each other. Then you contrastingly say that "direct comparisons and ties are irrelevant."</p>
<p>If they are irrelevant, then stop trying to prove a point here.</p>
<p>Cambridge. Experience another country! :)</p>
<p>As someone who was an undergraduate at Cambridge and is now a graduate student at Oxford I find the majority of comments above completely bizarre and a world away from my own experience. I think we need to differentiate between the world of literature, movies and history and the reality 21st century Britain today.</p>
<p>
[QUOTE]
Many of the uneducated British laymen know exactly what Oxford is, but barely blink at the mention of Cambridge.
[/QUOTE]
No I think that's Americans. For some reason they think there is only one university in the world outside the US, and it's Oxford. British people know of Cambridge. The term 'oxbridge' is used to apply to both collectively.</p>
<p>
[QUOTE]
(However, Cambridge is academically superior to Oxford while both are equally competitive for admissions.
[/QUOTE]
I don't think one is superior to the other. Of course they are always competing against each other in league tables, but these tables aren't any more meaningful that those published in the US and elsewhere. In reality both are more similar to each other than they are to anywhere else. </p>
<p>Get over this Cambridge is superior for sciences and Oxford is superior for arts thing (British students think this too). Over 800 years of history this is true on average, if you count things like Nobel prizes won and Prime Ministers produced. But on a day to day basis you are not going to be left uneduated by studying English at Cambridge or Physics at Oxford. I did natual scienes at Cambridge and as a graduate student I do some teaching (practical classes) for the Biology course at Oxford. I can tell you from personal experience that Oxford Biology is extremely similar to the Biology options in Cambridge Natural Sciences. I don't expect other subjects to be any different.</p>
<p>
[QUOTE]
In fact, British students can only apply to one of the two since both require special admissions process and teachers are notified of applicants.)
[/QUOTE]
ALL students can only apply to either Oxford or Cambridge as undergraduates. No exceptions apart from organ scholars.</p>
<p>
[QUOTE]
Academically speaking Cambridge outranks Oxford in most subjects, but Oxford is still more internationally renowned due to aristocratic legacy and a tradition of class divide. The undergraduate population is still somewhat socially divided, with the blue blooded and "public school kids" intermingling and those of the "working class" socializing together. My father studied at Oxford, but since he was of the "working class" and not blue-blooded he said that there was still prejudice towards him.
[/QUOTE]
</p>
<p>'blue blue' meaning actual royalty, I very much doubt it. They're not that bright and there aren't very many of them. Certainly not 20,000 to fill all the places. Prince Charles got into Cambridge despite not getting the grades and this caused a public outcry at the time. Therefore it wouldn't happen again. Prince William went to St Andrews in Scotland, where he could get in with his grades. Freddie Windsor, son of the Queen's cousin, was at Cambridge when I was but I didn't know him (he was involved in some scandal involving cocaine parties I believe.....). He was the only one as far as I know (out of 20,000 like I said)</p>
<p>There are some wealthy students at Oxbridge, same as there are anywhere. I think there is sometimes a wealth divide in that I can't afford to spend so much money as some students obviously can. But I certainly don't feel discriminated against because of this. That's life. There are clubs and societies for people who went to particular public schools (these are a type of private school). But the vast vast majority of students here didn't go to such a school, and who cares if they did?</p>
<p>Both Oxford and Cambridge have an "aristocratic legacy" in that the elaborate collegs were founded by kings and Queens (witness the staues above the gates at Trinity Cambridge. Henry the 8th, holding a chair leg because his mace was stolenand lost by students). There is nothing unusual in that. Hundreds of years ago, who else would have the money to build such monuments? I think the whole of Britian and the whole of Europe has a tradition of class divide. I mean that's what create royalty in the first place. But as an average person on the street, particularly a foreign person, this is irrelevant to you.</p>
<p>
[QUOTE]
Although, just a warning, Cambridge is somewhat of a depressing campus due to its focus on the hard sciences and rurality.
[/QUOTE]
This is the strangest comment of the lot. First of all, Cambridge has no central 'campus'. It is a selection of colleges and univeristy buildings scattered throughout the town. And they're BEAUTIFUL. Some of ther most famous architectual masterpieces in the UK, if not the world. There are defintiely some mistakes built in the 50s and 60s, but most of the city in general is lovely (and 45 mins from London by train if you really think it is unbearingly 'rural') .
Witness probably the most famous building in Cambridge, Kings College
<a href="http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/graphics/KingsSunset.jpg%5B/url%5D">http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/graphics/KingsSunset.jpg</a></p>
<p>None of this is answering the OPs question, I just felt I had to post to correct these HUGE mis-statements posted as fact by people who have no idea what they are talking about/watch too many movies.</p>
<p>To the OP, it is entirely your choice and to be honest asking people who actually go to Cambridge or Berkeley is not the best idea as everyone will say their school is the best. I know nothing about Berkeley so I can't comment. It's entirely your decision so choose what is best for you in education AND where you will be happy living.</p>
<p>@tetrisfan: if I go to Berkeley, I'll also be experiencing another country >_></p>
<p>@cupcake: well, you are right in saying that it's entirely my own decision, but asking people who actually go to these 2 colleges can actually help me with my decision. For example, right now I know i need to factor in Berkeley's really large classes ;) thanks for all the clarification anyway ^_^</p>
<p>
[quote]
I think we need to differentiate between the world of literature, movies and history and the reality 21st century Britain today.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I may not be British, but my dad is and went to Oxford. Just because I'm a Yank doesn't mean I'm ignorant of British culture nor its educational institutions. </p>
<p>
[quote]
No I think that's Americans. For some reason they think there is only one university in the world outside the US, and it's Oxford. British people know of Cambridge. The term 'oxbridge' is used to apply to both collectively.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Well since half my family lives in England, and I have blue collared friends there, they do value Oxford over Cambridge. My family is originally from Walthamstow (look it up if you can't find it). And trust me, people from Walthamstow and other blue collared people are more in "awe" over Oxford than Cambridge. And my working class friends tend to think of Oxford as by far the "posh" institution.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Get over this Cambridge is superior for sciences and Oxford is superior for arts thing (British students think this too).
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Yes, British students think this because it's true. Albeit the differences are minuscule, but still existent. </p>
<p>
[quote]
ALL students can only apply to either Oxford or Cambridge as undergraduates. No exceptions apart from organ scholars.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>If you know anything about logic, just because I said "British students can only apply to one or the other" does not mean I excluded non-British students. Learn how to read.</p>
<p>
[quote]
blue blue' meaning actual royalty, I very much doubt it.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I never said "blue blue." When I say blue, I meant posh. There's a difference. Again, you don't understand considering your family is probably not from the slums of East London and you may even be a public-bred nit. </p>
<p>
[quote]
But as an average person on the street, particularly a foreign person, this is irrelevant to you.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Irrelevant how? I was merely pointing out the class divide in Oxford and how its students tend to socialize. And like I said earlier, I may be Yank, but considering half my family lives there I'm not deriving my notions from the media or Hollywood propagated bull. </p>
<p>
[quote]
This is the strangest comment of the lot. First of all, Cambridge has no central 'campus'. It is a selection of colleges and univeristy buildings scattered throughout the town.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>A campus=collection of colleges and university buildings. You're being so nitpicky. I've been to Cambridge and it is rather depressing. Then again it might just be my own opinion. I'm not a fan of Berkeley's campus either.</p>
<p>I would choose Cambridge. I've heard that it's a very nice campus.</p>
<p>Just wanted to add that although I'm a Yank, both my parents are immigrants. My dad is almost all English--Cockney to be precise--with some Spanish thrown in for good measure. Our surname is a town located 1 hour west of London. Not all Americans are 5th generation Irish settlers who have negligible ties to the Old World. The fact that you keep referring to me as a "foreigner" albeit an ignorant foreigner is unwarrantably patronizing.</p>
<p>
[QUOTE]
I never said "blue blue." When I say blue, I meant posh. There's a difference. Again, you don't understand considering your family is probably not from the slums of East London and you may even be a public-bred nit.
[/QUOTE]
</p>
<p>All I can say is I don't recommend anyone respect the views of an agressive individual who spends their days insulting people they don't know on message boards. I am a foreign student who has been studying in England for 7 years and spent two years doing A-levels at a 'state' (i.e. free and provided by the government) school in the north of England prior to that (when my parents worked here). I am just describing my experiences which are totally different from that of the above poster and their "blue collared friends" (who they are such friends with that they classify and probably insult with such terms. Plus accuse them of living in a slum).</p>
<p>Also, why would anyone base any college choices on the opinions of the population of the randomly chosen Walthamstow?</p>
<p>
[QUOTE]
The fact that you keep referring to me as a "foreigner" albeit an ignorant foreigner is unwarrantably patronizing.
[/QUOTE]
I referred only to myself and foreign students. I mean the subject does not apply to the OP and other foreign students. see below.
[QUOTE]
But as an average person on the street, particularly a foreign person, this is irrelevant to you.
[/QUOTE]
</p>
<p>Think before you post. Perhaps try to be friendly and polite rather than rude and accusing. I defintely wouldn't want to go to Berkeley with people like this.</p>
<p>Is it me, or has the OP made numerous racist remarks throughout this thread? - as well as suggesting choosing a college to avoid homeless people. </p>
<p>Maybe I'm just misreading these posts. If not, I would expect more enlightenment from someone admitted to such great schools.</p>
<p>This thread has sadly degenerated into a cat fight. BerkeleySenior - your comments could be quite a bit more polite. How do you expect complete strangers to know or care about your Cockney/Spanish father, family in England, or surname from Walthamstow? </p>
<p>Apparently, you're completely overreacting to any contradiction of your opinions on the relative academics of Berkeley/Cambridge/Oxford/Harvard/Yale AND reading way too much into any suggestions about foreigners.</p>
<p>It sounds almost like you're desperate to parade your English heritage. Has it ever occurred to you that the sentence "But as an average person on the street, particularly a foreign person, this is irrelevant to you." might be directed to the OP?</p>
<p>
[quote]
All I can say is I don't recommend anyone respect the views of an agressive individual who spends their days insulting people they don't know on message boards.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Take a quick look at your own post. You basically implied that Americans are ignorant of the UK and derive everything they know through the media and fantasy literature. </p>
<p>
[quote]
I am a foreign student who has been studying in England for 7 years and spent two years doing A-levels at a 'state' (i.e. free and provided by the government) school in the north of England prior to that (when my parents worked here). I am just describing my experiences which are totally different from that of the above poster and their "blue collared friends" (who they are such friends with that they classify and probably insult with such terms. Plus accuse them of living in a slum).
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I said my dad's family lived in the slums. Anyway, it's not insulting being blue-collared. It's a class divide, that's it. Like I said earlier, my dad's family is mainly blue-collared and we know that. Like a lot of blue collared people, most of the family were in the AF. My dad is the exception: He got to Oxford through sheer brilliance and intelligence. While you may find being blue-collared insulting, it's not to the blue-collared. My dad's side is mainly working class and plenty of my mates are blue-collared as I get on better with them. They aren't pompous and they aren't sensitive enough to care about people calling them blue-collared as that's the fact. My blood is commoner than dirt, and I have blue-collared heritage, and what? </p>
<p>
[quote]
Also, why would anyone base any college choices on the opinions of the population of the randomly chosen Walthamstow?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>We were just having a discourse over how the British laymen perceive Oxford vs. Cambridge. I don't expect anyone to base their university decisions off this dialogue.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Think before you post. Perhaps try to be friendly and polite rather than rude and accusing. I defintely wouldn't want to go to Berkeley with people like this.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I only accused you of potentially being a public-school nit. That's not really that insulting...</p>
<p>I was in London, wearing my Berkeley tee and people stopped me on the street and commented that they'd heard a lot about Berkeley and Stanford being the best universities in the world.<br>
Outside of the US, Berkeley is a big deal.<br>
In Asia, I dont think it's any less prestigious than Oxford or Cambridge.</p>
<p>You're right; in Asia Berkeley is as prestigious as MIT and Stanford and even more prestigious than Oxbridge.</p>