Wow. Talk about blaming the victim. Look, I’m no big fan of Berkeley; it’s big and impersonal and can take forever to get your degree if the classes you need for a certain major aren’t offered just when you need them. But, no need to pile on when people wearing ski masks commit crimes in and around campus. Berkeley is located in one of the largest metropolitan areas in the United States. That is part of its appeal; it is not very far from San Francisco, a cultural mecca for many, many people. It is also no effort at all for people in nearby neighborhoods to converge on campus whenever they want. That is par for the course at an urban campus.
Like many other college campuses, it is not closed, and visitors can come and go (including those who want to hear the speaker and those who want to protest the speaker peacefully). Obviously, there was no intent to allow people to commit violence and vandalism. However, the police had a game plan that failed to adequately defend all of the speaker, peaceful protesters, property, and themselves against a large organized group of violent instigators. Defense (which the police have to do) is a much more difficult task than offense, since the defense must be 100% effective, while the offense needs only to find one weakness in the defense to win. Note that the same applies to terrorism and common crime as well.
Of course, 100% effective policing probably is not possible if one wants any level of freedom in society (and perhaps not even in extremely unfree authoritarian places like the DPRK).
I wouldn’t be surprised if Milo Y sent in paid people to do this.
He is known to thrive on radicalism and verbal flamethrowing, the more publicity the better.
This looks staged to me. To make sure to fulfill his base’s preconception that Berkeley is an out of control place that shuts down free speech.
There is as much evidence for one side of this argument as there is for the other.
I don’t think they would be paid protesters. But I would not eliminate the possibility of the far right bringing in a group to cause problems. The masked people should have been arrested on the spot. Then we would know the truth of the matter.
As a parent of a Berkeley freshman, I have to separate the academics from the politics in my mind so that I can continue to support the school that my daughter attends. Demonstrations are sort of expected - the wanton violence is not. Berkeley has a national and international reputation for academic excellence which will erode if parents don’t want to send their kids there because they fear for their safety. High-achieving kids have lots of academic choices. If they go elsewhere, so will the educators. Reputation is everything to a university. Between the budget issues, lack of student housing, and the high cost of living in the bay area, Cal can ill afford this bruise.
Well . . . .agree they SHOULD have been arrested on the spot, but I stand up for the police who have tough jobs that quelling rioters with teargas and putting out flames may have been all they could handle at the moment. Hard to say without being there.
The protesters if not paid, then staged, by Milo Y??
Strong suspect in my mind. He is known to want to disrupt things. He really loves that. He’s earning a living this way.
The students, OTOH had a lot to lose and nothing or virtually nothng to gain.
Tim Kaine said “fight in the streets”…Is it really wise to incite violence when there are 300 million guns in the hands of the US population?!
Berkeley should be prepared with police at protests from this point forward. They should immediately arrest anyone committing crimes during the protests. The University should also have meetings and publish/ educate their student population as to what constitutes a legal protest.
Since there is not yet any evidence (because the violent instigators escaped, and their masks make identification by photo or video difficult), people will naturally speculatively fill in the blanks with partisan “facts”.
That’s overtly political and not allowed on CC.
To balance that I urge you to look at the number of times violence has been instigated by both sides. There’s ample footage of certain people advocating takeing people out “on stretchers” from rallies.
I doubt the masked people were paid. The alt-right came looking for a fight and they got one.
There was, however, a big guy in a plaid shirt trying to instigate people. He was on several video streams shoving girls. He ended up bloodied and then gave an interview about how he just wanted to come and see Milo Y. Uh, sure.
I hope everyone stays safe and nobody gets hurt.
@Dustyfeathers said:
followed later by:
Before making more posts like the first quote, please keep in mind your second quote.
The masked violent instigators, whether or not students, wouldn’t listen.
In terms of the police actions, the police may have prioritized defense (of the speaker, peaceful protesters, property, and themselves) in their actions before going after the masked violent instigators (who apparently also attacked the peaceful protesters and used them as “human shields” when throwing stuff at the police).
A more accurate optic of the event is the video of a woman in a MAGA hat giving an interview, and then being pepper-sprayed at its conclusion.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GVq5vU3E6A
Or several men being beat in the middle of the street with sticks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMJPN8D7pPw
Please remember that Berkeley, like all public universities, is run by bureaucrats who are more concerned with keeping their pensions than actually doing something. If the administration came down on the protesters, the protesters next targets would be the UCB presidents office, and you can’t have that.
In my mind, the two threats are not the same. Why? Because I just don’t think Obama would have followed up on his threat and enforced it. Trump, on the the hand is somewhat of a hot-head and unpredictable. I think people find his threat to be more threatening because people just don’t understand where he is coming from.
Regardless, I don’t think it appropriate to withdraw funding for either unless the situation were to continue and get worse.
Here’s the reporting from a reputable local paper:
http://www.berkeleyside.com/2017/02/02/chaos-erupts-protesters-shut-yiannopolous-events-banks-downtown-vandalized/
One of the issues, apart from the masked protestors most likely not being actual Cal students, is that the UC police and the Berkeley city police (and fire) departments will often have a difficult time coordinating what was an unanticipated escalation.
From a public safety point of view, both the UC police and City of Berkeley police were well prepared for what they thought was going to be a peaceful protest, something that they’re well versed in.
When outside forces itching for a fight arrive unexpectedly, the coordination of two very different agencies with unique jurisdiction concerns can be problematic - regardless of one’s political affiliation.
Yep. I went to OSU and we had lots of far-right speakers on the lawn. People just walked by and ignored them. I guess I was a little interested because I always like to hear different points of view. Being tolerant is, I believe, a part of being intellectual.
Enough already. Jeez. You talk about politicizing something. The idea that Trump and the “alt right” is to blame for a bunch of whack jobs torching the Berkley campus is just nuts. No one believes that anymore. There has been too much violence and hate.
Burning things that don’t belong to you is bad. Breaking things you don’t own is bad. Violently stopping an invited speaker from speaking on a university campus is both bad and anathema to the classic purpose of a university. We used to be able to at least agree on stuff like that.
“The alt-right came looking for a fight and they got one.”
Just like we have brand new posters coming here and trying to fan the flames by making openly political comments. So nice of them to join a college board yet only engage in this kind of discussion. :-h I see you.