<p>President Levin of Yale has been diminishing the importance of athletics for awhile now.
Recruitment</a> caps strain teams | Yale Daily News</p>
<p>That's his prerogative, of course, it's just kind of sad to see these kids work so hard and be embarrassed, year after year.</p>
<p>As an alumnus who didn’t play on a team, I am ashamed of Levin’s decision for what it has done for the athletes who know that they will be outgunned before they take the field (see yesterday’s 45-7–and it wasn’t even that close–dismantling by Harvard in The Game). As he has decided that Yale teams will no longer be competitive in the Ivy League he should petition to leave the League and become a NESCAC Div III school. Nothing wrong with NESCAC at all–great schools and a wonderful sense of competition-- but at least Yale will be on an even playing field…</p>
<p>The presidents of these great institutions are stewards. Each leaves an imprint during their tenure, but hopefully does so with respect for the great traditions of the college. Football was invented at Yale - it’s just a shame to see one man’s disdain for athletics destroy a great tradition.</p>
<p>Is it maybe even a bit arrogant on Levin’s part to think that his view on the place of sport at Yale is superior to all his predecessors? Change is inevitable and important but this all seems a bit abrupt in terms of the history of the school.</p>
<p>There is a reason that my D-- who would have been a 4th generation Yalie–refused to even consider the school seriously. She did not want to go to a college where she would, as a jock, feel marginalized-- and put down as somehow lacking --even though her gpa/boards are higher than Yale’s average–and she went to a so-called “feeder school” as well.</p>
<p>BTW, my S who is at Harvard tells me that the students there now just assume that Yale will be a “free win” in whatever sport they play-- ice hockey has been a singular exception, but don’t tell Levin or he will fire the coach and demand that no one who knows how to skate gets admitted. </p>
<p>The funny thing is that in all studies of success --almost regardless of how such is defined–it is athletes who come out on top of their respective college’s ratings-- (now that doesn’t include the jock powerhouses where there is a huge gap between students and athletes). Grade, aside from those who wish to be academicians have very little to do with later “success.” Also athletes have the highest “loyalty” to their university and disproportionately give back to the alumni fund. </p>
<p>Again, I wasn’t a varsity athlete–so I have no axe to grind–and my D will be happily ensconced in a college where she can be intellectually challenged as much as she ever could at Yale and in an environment where the administration isn’t her enemy. I just am sad to see my alma mater in the hands of such a prig.</p>
<p>Agree with you on all points, etondad, especially as the parent of a student-athlete who might have been a 5th generation Yalie, had she applied. 45:7, what a rout. My Harvard-educated twin is crowing again, for what, the 6th year in a row?</p>
<p>Yes. The alumni should be concerned. S is ranked top 10 nationally in his sport. His GPA is also ranked 1/478 in his high school (IB). We specifically crossed Yale out of his potential college list. Everything flows from the leadership. There is no way S is going to a place that might marginalize him.</p>
<p>I agree with etondad that if Levin wants to take Yale in a new direction, he could do that by aligning the school with other institutions who have the same philosophy and same level of funding. There’s no reason to put the student athletes in this demoralizing position. </p>
<p>My D did an official at Yale, but she couldn’t get past how poorly the team did relative to their competitors. They were not only coming in dead last, but there was a large separation between their score and that of the second to last team. However, in all fairness, there’s a new coach this year (former assistant coach at Harvard, lol) and the team is performing much better.</p>
<p>guys whoa u made it to harvard and yale. whoa… im currently bursting my ass trying to improve. tips plz.</p>
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It’s a good thing you have no axe to grind–you might have said something provocative if you did.</p>
<p>I will just note that not all Yale grads are concerned about this situation. At all.</p>
<p>^then you wouldn’t be at all concerned at all–at all–with leaving the Ivy League? This way young athletes don’t have to be humiliated as they have been for the past 5 games against Harvard–and if the underclass talent at The Game is any indication of the years to come, such domination will continue into the foreseeable future. Again, aside from hockey, such has been the case with the other major sports at Yale. Its swimming program has become a shell of its former self, its crew team can’t beat Brown, let alone Harvard, its lightweights are no better, basketball is sad, track and field is nearly nonexistent, soccer has had poor results-- one could go on and on.<br>
No one is expecting that kids who don’t represent student athletes be admitted-- but Yale has a great history of Rich Diana, Stone Phillips and others who have done well in the classroom and the sporting fields.<br>
My S did go to Eton (hence my screen name) and there they looked for boys that were keen–academically, artistically and or in sports. All had their place to round out a class. Too bad Levin doesn’t understand that.</p>
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I don’t care if they stay in the Ivy League and lose a lot.</p>
<p>Then you have never played a sport. Losing is no fun. Knowing going into a game that you are going to lose is even less fun. I played in high school and for my college at Yale. I like to play and I like to win, every athlete I have ever met has told me the same. Levin has made the playing field biased so that winning becomes very difficult and in some cases a fluke. I suppose Yale could go the way of CalTech. But in that case leave DI and stop with any and all athletic tips-- Levin refuses to do either–so he makes the athletic department have a horrific task. </p>
<p>BTW, perhaps Yale should stop looking for musicians (and they do-- my S was one such) or artists, or actors, or dancers. After all they can be admitted when their “academic index” is not the highest in the pool. In the end Yale will just have a bunch of swots.</p>
<p>Add my baseball-playing S to the list of those who refuse to consider Yale, despite the excellent education. Yale’s athletic policy has guaranteed that teams will be sorely lacking in depth, and in a sport like baseball, lack of depth can and will lead to injuries as effective pitchers will be overused to try to stay competitive. Not worth risking injury when there are many other wonderful schools without such poorly thought-out policies in place. And yes, my kiddo would stand a fairly decent shot of getting in without sports, so no sour grapes here.</p>
<p>From the outside looking in…(son attends an Ivy not Y or H)</p>
<p>My two cents…I think many of you are overreacting about a football game. Let’s face it Harvard had a very good team this year. Last year it is was Penn that ran the tables. Ivy football is competitive within the conference, and Yale finished right smack in the middle at 4-3 with three other schools with the same record. You are making a mountain out of a mole hill. As for Levin’s policies…I truthfully think he is ahead of his time. Others will follow. There is going to be a big backlash between the NCAA and Congress coming up, and I believe others will be copying the Ivy model and Levin’s policies. Levin has positioned Yale to be the future model. This country actually needs to de-emphasize athletics over academics. We’ve gone over the top on athletics in our daily lives. Look around you at what big athletic’s does to schools…it takes over! Penn State is the most recent example…the Penn State football coach and Athletic Director had the President of the University over a barrel. That should never happen. It is everywhere, mostly in football and basketball. JMO.</p>
<p>momochan,</p>
<p>if your son is qualified (academically and athleitically) but is not considering Yale baseball, he is being shortsighted. Coach Stupor runs a great program. You are jumping to conclusions about overused pitchers. Your son needs to do more research on the topic. Typical D1 college baseball team will play 56 games in 13 weeks + playoffs + CWS. Typcial Ivy season is 40 games, 20 games out of conference and 20 games in conference over 9 weeks + 1 playoff series + CWS . Bottom line… Ivys play significantly less games, less innings than typical D1 programs.</p>
<p>Typical Ivy roster is 15-18 pitchers, 15-18 position players. Typically 4 starting pitchers on the weekend with possibly 4-8 more pitchers used in mid-relief, setup and closing over the course of the weekend (depending on the situation) which is 32 innings (7+9+7+9). The biggest problem I see is giving pitchers enough reps, and a chance to move up into the teams rotation. I’ve been following Ivy baseball (in depth) for the last two years. I have not seen pitching overuse by any stretch of the imaginiation. Again, I suggest your son revisit the topic because he may be missing out on a golden opportunity to play for a very good coach and get one of the finest educations available in the world. JMO.</p>
<p>^ apples and oranges. Ivy athletics haven’t been like Penn State and the rest of D1 sports in its inception-- to compare the two is disingenuous in the extreme. Athletics and athletes have had a positive effect upon colleges in the Ivy League (check Dean Harry Lewis work on this ). Why should an athlete join an also ran-- by the way Yale has lost 5 in a row in Football and Lord knows how many in a row in crew, basketball, swimming and almost any other sports.</p>
<p>if you think that being on a team that is purposely set to lose has a negative effect upon athletes then you haven’t played any sports. Imagine an excellent violinist choosing where to attend and knowing that if she were to go to Yale she would be with other violinist who can hardly read music let alone advance her as an artist. If you think there is a difference between music and athletics then you are just biased against any quality athletics.</p>
<p>But regardless, to look at the D1 craziness and to see a correlation with Ivy sport is at best odd. BTW, even Chicago which stopped football in the 1930s has reinsitituted the sport and all of the university’s coaches have the ability to interact with the Admissions office. Chicago!!</p>
<p>Wow, this is all a little disturbing, so I’m posting even though the thread has been dormant for a few months. I have one child each at H and Y, both athletes on winning teams, and both very satisfied with their choices…but stumbled upon this discussion as I have been surprised to find the Yale administration rather antagonistic and difficult in general. The default behavior of many personnel seems to be squaring off over issues that are not really…well, issues! It is less than gracious, shall we say?</p>
<p>Your comments lead me to wonder if this is a top-down phenomenon, with fall-out at a number of levels. Is Levin imposing his own prejudices and values in a unilateral way? Is he particularly heavy-handed about it, thus creating an example and an atmosphere of self-service?</p>
<p>Of course, here we are speaking specifically of the athletic programs:</p>
<p>The Yale child has certainly taken note of overt prejudice other students bear towards recruited athletes–the “dumb jock” assumption is somehow acceptable among the student body. I find it hard to imagine this level of crude bias would be tolerated for a moment if directed at other campus groups, but in this instance it apparently has support at the highest levels. </p>
<p>I must say I don’t see that happening at all at Harvard, where the Harvard child has been afforded courtesy and respect as a scholar-athlete as a matter of course. </p>
<p>I also noticed the Yale child’s coach traveling around the country, meeting with alumni/donor groups, in the off season. Nothing like that with the Harvard coach. At some level, the time and energy spent doing so comes from the team.</p>
<p>I would hope accomplished scholar-athletes would be considered a feather in Yale’s cap, but apparently not. I am disappointed.</p>
<p>One last point…we have a family friend is is older now and has done well in life. He was a swimmer when Yale was a powerhouse and wanted to do something to remedy the inadequate pool situation (if you are a swimmer and have visited Yale you will know immediately what I mean). He was willing to make an EIGHT figure donation toward the building of a new aquatic center (I know this because not only did he tell me, but someone associated with Yale swimming confirmed it…). Yale said-- nope, not interested. They didnt even do any further investigation of what remaining costs there would be, and the potential to get additional donors for the facility once this leadership gift was made. He was so angry that he is not giving money to Yale.</p>
<p>^ Unbelievable!! Who says no to that much money?</p>