<p>Photo</a> | Yale Daily News</p>
<p>Thanks fogfog,</p>
<p>This is very interesting, and hot off the press!</p>
<p>Does anyone have a perspective on the implications for H/W rowing at Yale, specific to how many spots and Likely Letters Steve Gladstone will get this recruiting cycle?</p>
<p>I can’t imagine he would have taken the job of rebuilding Yale’s program without an explicit committment from the administration that he could have recruiting spots each year. </p>
<p>Comments?</p>
<p>Yes, very interesting, and thanks for sharing fogfog. In terms of the big picture, I can’t help to wonder if Levin is onto something here. Are we witnessing a new trend here (possibly throughout the Ivys and some elite LAC D3s) emphasizing less (quantitiative) athletic recruiting and a return to college sports as it should be. I absolutely admire Levins leadership in this effort. Too often some of these traditional athletic crazy D1s are run by the AD or a celebrity coach. There is no question Levin is in control. Academics is first and foremost, and there is no second place. </p>
<p>Incidently, one of the athletes mentioned in the article is a family friend. Great kid, hard worker, fantastic student and fantastic athlete. He comes from a family of educators. I just hope he doesn’t have a career day today as they play son’s Ivy at Yale. He can save his career day for the Harvard game. ;-)</p>
<p>I found it very telling that both in the info session and during the tour, athletics were not mentioned once, either as …" a number of our students participate in varsity, but everyone can join a club or an intramural team yada yada", or - “on the right is a gym where anyone can work out … and there is a stadium…yada yada”. The absolutely only college on our tours that did not mention athletics. I guess mens sane in corpore sana doesnt apply here?</p>
<p>[UP</a> CLOSE | Students or athletes? | Yale Daily News](<a href=“http://www.yaledailynews.com/news/2011/sep/23/sacrificing-academics-for-athletics/]UP”>http://www.yaledailynews.com/news/2011/sep/23/sacrificing-academics-for-athletics/)</p>
<p>Our student is an engineerng major and I have wondered how that will be balanced with athletic demands. Athletics was a significant item in addition to the grades, scores, service etc etc on the app, not in lieu of…</p>
<p>On thing that bothers me is this “snobbery” that scholar-athletes are somehow less and I think many don’t realize the time and physical enegry commitment for sports. There is a huge difference between play practice and lifting schedule for example.</p>
<p>I noticed that last night the event at Woosley Hall, the <a href=“Facebook - log in or sign up”>Facebook - log in or sign up; was packed and today the
Yale-Cornell game at the Bowl is practically empty.</p>
<p>I am thrilled that the visual and performing arts get well supported and at the same time I think the pack of school spirit and support for the U’s athletes speaks volumes about snobbery/false intellectualism.
Lets face it, these are the same kids who attend the Trolley party at Calhoun for example…</p>
<p>I think that athletics has gotten a pejorative/bad wrap</p>
<p>appreciated this reader’s comment…</p>
<p>i know there are courses our student was interested in, yet were offerred only 1x/1 section and overlapped practice schedule.</p>
<p>
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<p>OldScarecrow: I would assume as a veteran coach he knew what he was signing up for, I would imagine he gets at least the graduating seniors’ worth of recruits, or maybe a frosh boats’ worth. Each recruit has to fill a specific need, and a good crop of walk ons!</p>
<p>FogFog, how does one choose a Science or Engineering major if required Labs are all in the afternoon during practice time? One quote from an athlete said science was “out of the question” because of the lab conflict…? I can’t imagine this would be such a deal breaker for an athlete with aspirations in the science or engineering degree world…? I do (x) sport, therefore I can’t study and major in what I came here to do…?</p>
<p>LaDiligente,</p>
<p>I can’t answer for fogfog, but I can answer that my son’s experience has been positive in this regard. Son is a sophomore engineering & material science major at an Ivy. There are specific rules in place at Ivys regarding when they can practice, travel and play their games. My son was able to get his labs done and on time during the baseball season, and off season. This was one of the major reasons we selected an Ivy. He would not have been able to play baseball and study engineering at just about any of the other D1 schools that recruited him, and the coaches told him this. This was a huge deal for us, and it has made all the difference in the world. He is actually carrying 19 credit hours this Fall semester</p>
<p>Thanks FenwaySouth!</p>
<p>In the thread, there were links to two articles from the Yale Daily News last week, second article cited specific differences between the Ivies: varying levels of accommodation for athletes’ practice schedule (e.g. Princeton having a period of school-wide classes ban in the afternoon), but it didn’t sound like (from the article) that Yale had anything in place such as that, so some majors were de-facto impossible because of practice schedules…?
May just be how the article was written, or the specific athletes interviewed for the story.</p>
<p>^ From our students short experience…a freshman
there is nothing to support the athletes.
No tutors
No pre-registraion
No preference for sections for classes
etc
etc</p>
<p>As a STEM major our student is very busy with a lab that runs 3 hrs one day a week. The coach told the team what day would be “lab day”.
I am praying that works each semester…I know looking at spring term that one class our student will likely take (required) only offers one section at all and only one lab…so its not possible to choose a different day for “lab”.</p>
<p>FWIw…all of the other schools seemed to do alot more to help their athletes have the same opportunities…Yale, not so much. Some schools athletes don’t take Fri classes so they can travel. Some schools offer preferred registration and gurantee the athletes to not get locked out of classes (caps) if the course cannot be taken at another time due to scheduling etc.</p>
<p>At of this seems to be missing at Yale.
I applaud the expectation these scholar atheletes are equal to the other students and yet the physical demands and travel demands are far more intensive for athletes than the glee club for example…extracurriculars are not equal. </p>
<p>And the attitude of some professors is appalling. Such intellectual snobbery…I have heard that problem exists in many ivies…</p>
<p>I lost the long message I wrote (darn it): in summary, every student gets the athlete star treatment at Yale. Everyone student is broadly smart and broad in acheieve,ents but bring a unique skill to the school. Everyone gets the benefits mentioned above plus all the great things about Yale (residential colleges, open shopping classes, tutors for the asking, great dining experience, multiple social circles, needs based financial aid-for all 4 years). Special medical and training access are provided to the atheletes, for sure. The coaches are the best in the business (although not the ones that are on TV all the time). Really, Yale is about being a true student-athlete, not just an athlete. The article made a point and only looked at some of the facts not the entire environment. Many sports at Yale do fine and the # recruits have stayed the same or grown (hockey, squash, football, etc). Look into what Yale offers and you will realize that the items mentioned above by fogfog are already a small part of a very much larger and broader diverse experience. Talk to the student athletes there and see what they say (not just a few quoted for the article). Otherwise, it is just heresay or second hand.</p>
<p>If you are an athlete and want your college experince to be about living and hanging mainly with jocks, and getting lots of free gear from Nike, getting tutors to attend and review your classes for you, having set study hours for the teams, getting a yearly athletic scholarship up front (oops, they are only good for one year and if you perform), then go to Michican or Penn State. Nothing wrong with that. Just different. But, suggest if you are as I described above, give Yale a chnace (and no snobbery in that, in fact it is humbling).</p>
<p>Sorry for spelling errors but no time left to check</p>
<p>IvyMan123,</p>
<p>Thanks for the insight…I am a new member, too; and a bad typist! I think the posting system times you out if your reply or new post takes too long to type; and it isn’t saved, which is very frustrating. I’m not sure how long your posting “window” is, but too short for my poor typing skills. Work around:</p>
<p>Post your key points quickly (within 5 minutes??), it may look bad with typos, etc., but if you check on your post quickly, you will see an ‘edit’ button that allows you to get back in to your post very quickly and clean it up, or make your thoughts more coherent before anyone reads it! and you can do it a few times til you get it right!</p>
<p>Anyway, good points about the article (the second one; 9/23), just wondered if science and engineering were really too difficult to declare as majors there because of practice scheduling vis a vis when labs or key courses were offered…?</p>
<p>Oh my god. It happened again. Short email, got too long, then expired after 20 minutes. 1st email took over two hours.</p>
<p>Very short:</p>
<p>1) Most athletes not in engineering but there are some. Check the rosters in [Yale</a> University Official Athletic Site - Yale Bulldogs](<a href=“http://www.yalebulldogs.com/landing/index]Yale”>Yale University - Official Athletics Website). Does not hurt graduates as many employment and graduate opportunities occur through networking and workshops at the school. See your sport, your interest and see if there are some matches. Engineering and sports are challenging at every school but especially at the Ivies & Stanford.</p>
<p>2) The issue of Engineering and athletes isn’t scheduling lab sessions; it is the amount of work and linkage into research (part of engineering undergrad curriculum). The schedule is easy. See Yale College program if study: shows majors and offerings (but not all the sessions linked to them as they require student login) <a href=“http://yalecollege.yale.edu/sites/default/files/u59/YCPS%202011.pdf[/url]”>http://yalecollege.yale.edu/sites/default/files/u59/YCPS%202011.pdf</a>.</p>
<p>Good luck, but if you are not afraid of the work and get recruited by Yale, go for it.</p>
<p>Thanks for your thoughts IvyMan…</p>
<p>The article pints out what Princeton and some of the other peer schools do to support their athletes…Princeton is not Michigan/Penn State.</p>
<p>What year are you at Yale and which sport?
Which major?</p>
<p>A couple of random observations:</p>
<p>Quote: e.g. “Princeton having a period of school-wide classes ban in the afternoon.”
Simply not true. Go to [Course</a> Offerings « Office of the Registrar](<a href=“http://registrar.princeton.edu/course-offerings/]Course”>Course Offerings | Office of the Registrar) . There are currently 130 courses that are taking place between around 3 and 4:20 or later.</p>
<p>Review sessions for some of the intro science classes were all scheduled during practice times.</p>
<p>Lastly, I know at least three athletes who did not make it through the pre-read at a D1 school mentioned in the article who were admitted and are now attending Yale.</p>
<p>Nevertheless, the article points out what potential recruits may want to consider when choosing a college: How are athletes regarded at the school, i.e. are they appreciated for their contributions or are they regarded as ‘dumb jocks’ who only gained admission because of their athletic ability. (I suppose in that respect it’s good that there are no concessions made for athletes, such as some adjustment for course offerings, competition schedules, tutoring? On the other hand, you have to wonder why many student-athletes feel compelled to keep it a secret that they are varsity athletes.)</p>
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<p>What is crazy is the athletes we know at Yale–all have the same high stats are the general population…and ivy recruiting requires ot to be such…</p>
<p>so either there is misunderstanding by the faculty about athletic recruitment or misunderstanding by some in the student body…</p>
<p>misunderstanding or ignorance…</p>
<p>Sports are Football, Hockey, Lacrosse, Squash. Had/have kids at Yale one at Princeton (not all boys). Majors: PolySci, Econ, History. Own kids have had no problems scheduling and coordinating classes. There may be some late in the day but most are mornings and early afternoons. Also, most of the practices for these sports vary from late afternoons to 7:00 and 8:00 in the evening. Exceptions occur for everything. One time-to-infrequent events are usually not a problem to get excuse from practice. None of the athletes are regarded as dumb jocks because Yale does not generally give them much leeway (see Ivy Index and highest requirement for HYPs) and overall respect of all the students (a 99% truth). Am not aware of anyone that keeps their varsity participation a secret as it would be virtually impossible. This is a bad truth (99% not true-maybe-1% true). I see more athletes not make it through at D1 schools than at Ivies (Yale) due to pre-screening, requirements, support. Many D1 schools look at athletes as one year players. They perform on the field they stay on team and get renewed (often chnaged) scholarship. Otherwise they are out of team and scholarship but still in the school. Yale & HYPs are D1 that give no athletic scholarships. HYPs continue to support the player through needs-based financially and because of the different social circles allow the ex-athlete to maintain groups of friends.</p>
<p>Most professors don’t care if the student is an athlete. Some attend the games and get caught up with the teams, especially football and, lately, hockey (by the way, almost every hockey game is sold out and a campus event). Most are accomodating to the student. Some (who?) probably give athletes a harder time. I would think they have more important things to do, like research, than to set up their schedules to coincide with practices. Many practice in the evening anyway so not very likely to be true. </p>
<p>If a situation gets bad for a student with a teacher, that’s where the academic dean and/or varsity coach can help.</p>
<p>IvyMan–none of your kids are STEM majors balancing labs etc.? </p>
<p>Part of the point of the original article was about how easy it is to be a pol sci or history major for example and how hard it is for the students to be STEM majors…because of the extensive time in labs…Some courses in the STEM have only one section and one lab section…so there is no option</p>
<p>So your own students’ experiences underscores the author’s point that so many gravitate towards pol sci / historyas the “easier” road … to juggle a sport and academic demands</p>
<p>While visiting Harvard, D was told that there is prejudice against athletes among some professors, and with them you should hide your identity as a varsity athlete if you want to do well in the class. Since D had the same academic profile as any other Ivy student, this was irritating. She didn’t hear that when visiting Yale, but she did note an institutional neglect for athletics and figured that would not bode well for the team’s future. Indeed, their results at conference meets are often well below par (dead last and not even in the same ballpark).</p>