<p>to see if any issues discussed there haven't come up recently here on the Harvard Forum. The format of an Exploring College Options consortium information meeting is that representatives of all five colleges (Duke, Georgetown, Harvard, Penn, and Stanford) take turns showing slide shows about their colleges, and then the whole panel answers general questions from some of the hundreds of students and parents in attendance. Then each college representative goes to a different part of the meeting building to be surrounded by families particular interested in that college. After the general session broke up in my town, I followed the Harvard representative to her corner (hallway) while my son followed the Stanford representative. I took notes of many of the main points made by each representative. </p>
<p>I note the Harvard representative said at least twice, I think both in the general session and in the Harvard-specific session, that the Harvard admission committee looks for "roommate qualities" among its large group of applicants. I don't have a verbatim quotation of the specific subpoint in my notes, but I recall a statement along the lines that admission probability is even higher for an applicant with very strong roommate qualities than it is for an applicant with very strong academic qualities (partly because really strong roommate qualities are rarer than really strong academic qualities in Harvard's high-powered applicant pool). </p>
<p>As I mull this over two months later, I recall College Confidential threads in which high school students say that that they have NEVER had a roommate at any time in their lives. Many young people today, in an era of smaller family sizes and larger houses, have never even had to share a room with a sibling at home. </p>
<p>As you consider the issue of personal development before you apply to college, how do you develop your roommate qualities? What steps do you take to prepare for living in a residential community in which your fellow students have nonfamily roommates from places all over the world? What challenges (and opportunities) do you expect to arise from the residential college nature of Harvard College? </p>
<p>Good luck to all of the class of 2008 applicants to Harvard. Please remember another tip I picked up at at the information session: because this year Harvard has no early admission round, all interviews will be scheduled only after an applicant submits a first contact information sheet to the admission office for regular round consideration. You are very welcome, and encouraged, to submit your personal contact information earlier than the other portions of your application, so that the admission office has more time to schedule your admission interview.</p>
<p>Very interesting insight from the information meeting.</p>
<p>Your interpretation of "roommate qualities" may be a little too literal. What Harvard is looking for in "roommate qualities" are people would get along with others, would "pitch in" when asked, would be considerate, would not be too compliant or too combative, would be interesting to talk with and interested in what others have to say etc. </p>
<p>During a session on techniques for interviewing entry level candidates for a job, we were taught to "fish" for similar "roommate" qualities....only they weren't called roommate qualities. They are the qualitative characteristics that make job candidates (and admissions candidates) unique and interesting to be with. And they are the NON QUANTIFIABLE element of the application process that drives a majority of posters on CC crazy. I congratulate the Harvard admissions officer who at least tried to give some kind of concrete image to this set of abstract personal qualities. </p>
<p>As Tokenadult probably knows, for a number of years, including the class of 2012 (2008 HS), Stanford has asked for responses to the essay prompt:</p>
<p>"Write a note to your future roommate relating a personal experience that reveals something about you." </p>
<p>Which may be a very direct way that they try to evaluate "roommate qualities."</p>
<p>Yes, I appreciate you pointing out that "roommate qualities" are not manifested or developed just by being someone's roommate, but by many life experiences interacting with other people. I'm sure that was the intended meaning at the information session. </p>
<p>Thanks too for the reminder that the Stanford application has for several years asked for a note to a roommate. I haven't seen this year's Stanford supplement to the Common Application, because that is only available online to persons registered with the Common Application for an application this year.</p>
<p>I'm sure all checking out the Harvard threads will be delighted for a link to the Stanford essays for the class of 2012! </p>
<p>(The following link lists the supplemental essay topics and is up-to-date for this year because there are references to the Common App, and this is the first admissions year that Stanford is using the Common app.)</p>
<p>
[quote]
statement along the lines that admission probability is even higher for an applicant with very strong roommate qualities than it is for an applicant with very strong academic qualities (partly because really strong roommate qualities are rarer than really strong academic qualities in Harvard's high-powered applicant pool).
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</p>
<p>Strong room-mate qualities are not uncommon. What's rare is clear and unequivocal evidence of such qualities in the application. Interviewers might conclude that certain applicants are especially sunny (or sketchy) personalities. Written evidence in the application is unavailable or unreliable; most recommenders give favorable ratings for maturity, and statements that the student was a pleasure to work with are routine.</p>
<p>It's easy to believe that someone with demonstrably exceptional personal qualities on top of reasonably good (i.e., within admissible range) academic indicators might well get a boost in admissions chances more than any improvement in SAT scores might have produced. But there are few applicants for whom such qualities are obvious enough to enter the decision.</p>
<p>Well written recommendations contain specific behavioral examples...more than just "the student was a pleasure to work with." While not all teachers and guidance counselors produce well written recommendations (lots of threads and posts on CC lamenting this situation) -- there are plenty who do. Also, the way a students writes about themselves in their essay gives very strong, even if indirect, clues about "roommate qualities." </p>
<p>Per Tokenadult's notes about the comments made by the Harvard admissions rep, Harvard clearly believes they can draw conclusions AND MAKE DECISIONS about these qualities from the admissions materials submitted and the alumni interviews. They have to....since so many of their applicants are acacemically qualified...and they can't fill an entire class with recruited athletes, URM's, develompment admits and other defined "hooked" applicants.</p>
<p>Yes, I'm not staking a claim on any exact wording, as I have already mentioned that my notes are not verbatim on that fine point, but I did find it interesting that the admission officer, on her initiative in the general session and in response to a question in the Harvard-specific session, made clear that personal qualities other than purely academic qualities are of interest to the Harvard admission committee. That's because Harvard is not only an academic institution, but also a residential community. </p>
<p>Best wishes to the class of 2008 applicants to Harvard.</p>
<p>
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Harvard clearly believes they can draw conclusions AND MAKE DECISIONS about these qualities from the admissions materials submitted and the alumni interviews. They have to....
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<p>Sure, like every other college with mostly on-campus students. However, most applications contain a relatively weak signal about this question (unless you are equating "roommate qualities" with the very broad umbrella of "personal characteristics", in which case the whole discussion becomes repetitive of well-known material publicized by every school). For this factor to strongly influence a given admission decision it has to be VISIBLE, and that cannot be the case for more than a small slice of the applications.</p>
<p>A highly selective school without mostly on-campus students (is there one?) would also be looking for students with "roommate qualities". In my post #2, I tried to state that it is important not to take the comment about "roommate qualities" too literally.</p>
<p>Roommate qualities are different from personal qualities. Appicants who don't have any other unique hook for an elite college, realize this difference (either inherently or overtly) and can express these qualities through their application, interview and recommendations, are more likely to be successful in their elite school applications. These students represent a very large slice of the admitted, non-hooked, applicants.</p>
<p>
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Roommate qualities are different from personal qualities.
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<p>I think it would be good to define what "roommate qualities" are as distinct from the well-known "personal qualities" (e.g., volunteerism as shown in ECs).</p>
<p>I do not think that affability, for instance, is especially uncommon in the applicant pool, or would give a strong admissions boost (because so common), though of course it doesn't hurt, and outright dislikability would tank most applications. Extraordinary affability to the level of personal magnetism or charisma would be a different matter, but it would also be rare.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Appicants who don't have any other unique hook for an elite college, realize this difference (either inherently or overtly) and can express these qualities through their application, interview and recommendations, are more likely to be successful in their elite school applications. These students represent a very large slice of the admitted, non-hooked, applicants.
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<p>I think the point of the paraphrased admissions comment was not just that these "roommate qualities" have some weight (which is the same as saying they are a factor in admission, and so are judged for most applicants) but that they can carry * substantial* weight. I can't think of many such factors that are about residence-friendliness and can be credibly represented in writing to the point of carrying high admissions weight, except in rare cases.</p>
<p>For example, a peacemaker, a social butterfly and a wise counselor can all be beneficial to a residential community. But the opportunities for a recommender to learn of such traits and credibly represent them in a letter are limited, and applicants who possess such traits are not necessarily in a position to document them.</p>
<p>S had not intended to showcase his "roommate qualities" or his sociability in the two college applications he made, but in retrospect, that's what happened. In one essay, he wrote about putting together a skit for a talent show in collaboration with a tight-knit group of friends; in the process, he also explained how these friends had come to bond over 3 summers of studying together [half of the group actually had a reunion recently though they all attend different colleges]. In answer to a question, he wrote about joining an after-school activity as a way of keeping in touch with friends whom he had so little opportunity to see during the regular school hours because of taking college classes. In another essay, he wrote about not wanting to let down his team in some minor competition.
I think that ECs, recs, and essays can tell a fair amount about an applicant.</p>
<p>With due respect, the above sounds like the (intentionally or not) self-celebratory material of many an essay, not necessarily something that carries much weight compared to being X years advanced in the math curriculum with high stats etc.</p>
<p>Granted, I doubt that great "roommate qualities" would trump a great academic record, but I was responding specifically to the statement:</p>
<p>
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But the opportunities for a recommender to learn of such traits and credibly represent them in a letter are limited, and applicants who possess such traits are not necessarily in a position to document them.
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<p>A list of ECs that focused on things like community service, tutoring, or being part of a team would give adcoms a sense of what the applicant might bring to a college community (my S's list was necessarily extremely short--hence the explanation he gave for joining a team). Teachers and GCs could also talk about tutoring or the help that a student gave to others in their classes. When adcoms talk about leadership skills, they are not always talking in the future tense.</p>
<p>..."X years advanced in the math curriculum with high stats etc" describes the majority of applicants to Harvard and elite schools. Many of the national "academic" honors (Siemen's-Westinghouse top 5, Intel/STS Finalist...even top 10) are no longer hooks. </p>
<p>Schools like Harvard need qualitative evaluation tools for applicants. I doubt that Marite's son's essays were the standard self-celebratory essay. They probably very clearly illustrated that Marite's son would be an interesting person to be with, and would be interested in learning about, from and with other people. It grabbed the attention of an admissions officer -- it wasn't "standard" fare.</p>
<p>Well, to be honest, I don't know if the essays grabbed anyone's attention. But I know his list of ECs was quite short and unimpressive and I had no access to the recs. They may have said something about his personal qualities; I do not know. With other applicants, it might be easier to discern personal qualities from other parts of their application. Being on a sports team, being in the Boy or Girl Scouts, and other team activities would give an inkling that the applicant is not a loner.</p>
<p>Because of their size LACs in particular want students who can get along and be an integral part of the community. After all, classes take up only about 12-15 hours in a week.</p>
<p>
[quote]
A list of ECs that focused on things like community service, tutoring, or being part of a team would give adcoms a sense of what the applicant might bring to a college community ... Teachers and GCs could also talk about tutoring or the help that a student gave to others
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<p>Yes, but that is all under the standard rubric of "personal qualities" and "potential for contribution to the community". The discussion in this thread appeared to be about roommate qualities, whatever those are, as distinct from personal qualities, leadership, volunteerism as seen in ECs, skills of use to the college community (music, student government, journalism), etc.</p>
<p>I understood Tokenadult's "roommate qualities" to mean person skills, as opposed to talents such as being a top violinist or competitive swimmer. Certain types of ECs do highlight the ability of students to get along socially. Of course, they say nothing about a person's tidiness, personal hygiene, drinking and sleeping habits, and the like...which may be of greater relevance to that person's roommate. But I doubt that adcoms would go around telling potential applicants that they only admit students who are willing to do their laundry on a regular basis.</p>
<p>Once again, everyone's being a little too literal here. Tidiness, personal hyginene etc are not the roommate qualities adcoms are looking for when they evaluate candidates.</p>
<p>In addition, a listing of EC's provides very little insight into roommate qualities. The things an applicant says about themselves and their activities (in essays and in an interview) and the DETAILS provided in a good recommendation, are the key inputs an admissions reviewer uses for "roommate qualities." </p>
<p>Clearly, the Harvard admissions rep's "image" of the unquantifiable admissions criteria does not concretize these criteria for everyone! I thought it was a very good metaphor.</p>
<p>There are ECs and there are ECs. What one does in the Boy Scouts is going to be very different from what one does being a top tennis player, for instance, or a world class violinist like Stefan Jackiw who's just graduated. Much can be inferred from a list, even if the recs or the essay do not bring out these personal qualities.
Some recs will highlight personal qualities; others may emphasize academic achievements. Some essays will show an applicant to be a highly sociable person, or perhaps someone who loves exploring nature on solitary walks. It depends on the prompt or what an applicant wishes to highlight about himself/herself.</p>
<p>What makes a great roommate for one person would make a lousy one for others. Selecting compatible roommates is the job of the Housing Dean, once students have accepted offers of admission. I was told that she handpicked roommates and suitemates, and from my experience, she did a fabulous job. The job of adcoms, besides selecting for academic excellence, is to select students who will contribute to the college community as a whole.
This is why the concept of "roommate qualities" as it applies to admission decisions needs to be interpreted very broadly indeed.</p>
<p>
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Clearly, the Harvard admissions rep's "image" of the unquantifiable admissions criteria does not concretize these criteria for everyone! I thought it was a very good metaphor.
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</p>
<p>Yes, I appreciated how you expanded on the meaning of "roommate qualities," and I think that concrete example was helpful for the listeners at the meeting I attended in aiding them to understand that it isn't just test scores that get an applicant into Harvard.</p>