Ross or Cornell ILR

<p>Can't decide on which school to enroll in. Really like them both. Want to get into finance and know that both schools are respected in the finance field. Any thoughts would be appreciated.</p>

<p>I thought that the school at Cornell with strong finance ties was a diff one? Not totally familiar, but maybe AEM?</p>

<p>Ross wins this one…</p>

<p>Were you preadmitted into Ross? If so, I would recommend Ross over ILR for jobs in Finance.</p>

<p>Yes…preadmit to Ross.</p>

<p>Ross is the clear choice then. Isn’t ILR not even the business school at Cornell?</p>

<p>Ross is the way to go, unless you prefer Cornell for personal reasons. Although financial institutions do recruit at ILR, most students land jobs in HR. Ross has excellent placement in financial institutions.</p>

<p>I would recommend Cornell ILR unless you intend to get a Management Consulting job in which case Ross and Michigan in general is better recruited. Bulge bracket investment banks like BAML, Morgan Stanley, JP Morgan, and UBS recruit heavily at Cornell across all the major division of the school (AEM, ILR, CAS, and Hotel Administration) while Michigan Ross is better recruited for MCs like BCG, Bain, McKinsey, Booz & Co., and Deloitte.</p>

<p>Overall, you can’t go wrong either way so focus on fit but I believe that Cornell with its Ivy League connections will provide you with the better pedigree in the long run.</p>

<p>I would recommend not giving much credence to the recommendations of the goldenboy from Ohio. He does not have first hand experience with either program or school or the business world and has been trolling the Michigan board for the past several months.</p>

<p>I don’t live in Ohio nor have I ever hailed from the state (my parents graduates from OSU). I’m currently working as a consultant before I start law school so I know more about the business world than any poster who’s responded here than Alexandre. I would advise you to go for the school you like better in this scenario though Cornell has a slight edge in finance recruitment.</p>

<p>The fact that most students in Cornell ILR want to pursue careers in HR as Alexandre aptly pointed out means that it will be easier for you to stand out in the pool since all Cornell students can drop their resumes for front office positions at banks unlike Michigan where only the Ross kids can.</p>

<p>You’re in an enviable position either way. Good luck!</p>

<p>“I know more about the business world than any poster who’s responded here than Alexandre”</p>

<p>Anyone care to respond to this one?</p>

<p>“The fact that most students in Cornell ILR want to pursue careers in HR as Alexandre aptly pointed out means that it will be easier for you to stand out in the pool”…</p>

<p>Not quite. Most ILR students do not intend on pursuing careers in HR. However, HR positions are the ones that they are best suited for. Most ILR students are pre-law, with a large chunk of them seeking careers in Consulting or Investment Banking. Unfortunately, not many of them get offers in those two fields. </p>

<p>"…since all Cornell students can drop their resumes for front office positions at banks unlike Michigan where only the Ross kids can."</p>

<p>I am not sure who told you that LSA or CoE students are not allowed to drop their resumes for front office positions at IBanks. They are most certainly allowed. Unfortunately, the odds are not that good…relative to Ross. That’s not surprising given the success at which Ross students are placed, which is nothing short of envious. At Ross, approximately 100-120 students seek out jobs in IBanking annually. Of those, close to 80-90 are placed, 50-60 of them into front office BB IBank positions. Those are pretty awesome odds considering how exclusive this industry happens to be. LSA and CoE students enjoy much lower placement rates.</p>

<p>At Cornell, Dyson has similar placement rates to Ross, but not ILR. In fact, the odds of landing a job at an IBank from ILR would not be much better than the odds from LSA or the CoE.</p>

<p>

So, most Cornell ILR grads end up unemployed in your estimation? Cornell’s ILR site proves you dead wrong my friend.</p>

<p>[Life</a> After ILR](<a href=“http://www.ilr.cornell.edu/admissions/careers/graduates.html]Life”>http://www.ilr.cornell.edu/admissions/careers/graduates.html)</p>

<p>There were 240 Cornell ILR students in 2010 and 65% of them pursued employment after graduation (156). Out of those 156, about 25 of them got front office finance jobs. The following bulge bracket investment banks recruited Cornell ILR seniors:</p>

<p>[ILR</a> Undergraduate Admissions: Employers and Graduate Programs](<a href=“http://www.ilr.cornell.edu/admissions/careers/employers.html]ILR”>http://www.ilr.cornell.edu/admissions/careers/employers.html)</p>

<p>BAML
Citi
Deutsche Bank
Goldman Sachs
JP Morgan
Morgan Stanley</p>

<p>Here is Ross’s data:</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.bus.umich.edu/pdf/EmploymentData2011.pdf[/url]”>http://www.bus.umich.edu/pdf/EmploymentData2011.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Ross enrolled 348 BBAs for the Class of 2010 with 87.3% of graduates seeking employment within 3 months of graduation (~304). Of these 304 BBAs, 24.8% of them, or about 75, received jobs in investment banking as well as sales & trading.</p>

<p>Assuming those were all front office hires at Ross (huge stretch), Ross placed 3 times as many graduates in finance as ILR but ILR is roughly two thirds of the size. So, adjusting for size, Ross placed 75 as supposed to ~37-38 at ILR. However, ILR students are no where near as interested in being placed in finance as their Ross counterparts with 29% getting HR jobs and another 13% seeking paralegal jobs in advance of law school enrollment in the future.</p>

<p>After you adjust for interest level and size, I would say that Cornell ILR and Ross are equally effective at getting their graduates front office positions at IBs. You"ll have more banks recruiting at Ross but you"ll have less competition at Cornell.</p>

<p>I would advise the OP to choose based on fit (traditional business education vs. negotiation & labor theory). One thing for sure that we all know is that Alexandre’s claim that ILR is not really better than Michigan LSA for IBD recruitment is absolutely baseless and false based on the data provided to us.</p>

<p>“So, most Cornell ILR grads end up unemployed in your estimation? Cornell’s ILR site proves you dead wrong my friend.”</p>

<p>That is not what I said. I said that most ILR students intend to go into IBanking , Management Consulting or Legal professions, however, most end up in HR professions or legal careers. One of your major assumtions is that the 50% that take jobs with HR (line/corporate HR, Labor Relations or HR consulting) do so as their “plan A”. They do not. For many, if not most of them, their first choice is either IBanking or Management Consulting. Unfortunately, as I stated above, ILR students are better suited for HR careers, and the program attracts employers more interested in hiring HR professionals. The good thing is, HR pays well, so ILR students are definitely a well-off bunch.</p>

<p>Another major assumption you make is that all of the 16% that take jobs in Financial Services are front office jobs at BB IBanks. There is no way that is the case. Just look at Ross. 50% of Ross students take jobs with Financial Services firms, but when you look closely, only half of those are with IBanks. Many of those 16% of Cornell ILR students take jobs with commercial banks or backoffice positions at minor financial institutions. There is no way of telling what percentage of those students take front office jobs with actuall BB IBanks. Ross breaks it down clearly. 18% take jobs with IBanks while 30% take jobs with other types of Financial Services firms. If Cornell ILR has a similar breakdown between IBanks and Financial Services firms, I would estimate that only 7% of ILR students end up taking jobs with IBanks. that is not impressive considering that the percentage of ILR students seeking careers in IBanking is probably as high as the percentage of Ross students seeking careers in IBanking. </p>

<p>A very telling stat in the Cornell ILR link you provided above (Life After ILR), is the geographic placement of ILR graduates. Only 25% are in the Northeast, of which only 5% in NYC. Those figures would support my general conjecture that not all 16% of the ILR students who report working for financial services firms are in fact front office positions at BB IBanks.</p>

<p>Bottom line, Ross is more effective than Cornell ILR at placing students into BB IBanks. That’s not a knock on Cornell ILR. Ross is just that good.</p>

<p>Goldenboy</p>

<h2>

There’s that pretentious attitude again. You mentioned Duke 4 times, more than any other institution. OP isn’t even considering Duke.</h2>

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<p>Goldenboy

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<p>A decent percentage of applicants interested in Finance apply to ILR or Hotel Admin since their acceptance rate(24% and 27.3%) are more than double AEM’s acceptance rate (10-11%) and above Cornell’s overall 18%. The coursework involved is more related to business/econ than HumanEcology and Engineering. But of course, that’s not to say everyone who goes to ILR/Hotel Admin uses them as a backdoor to iBanking/consulting related jobs.

It’s not an academic entry, but the general perception is ILR kids were not confident and/or competitive enough in getting into AEM. But OP, I’m not knocking on you if you wish to be an ILR student. </p>

<p>Source:
<a href=“http://dpb.cornell.edu/documents/1000003.pdf[/url]”>http://dpb.cornell.edu/documents/1000003.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Alexandre obviously thinks very highly of Cornell ILR as he gave up his i-banking career to pursue a degree there. But what does he know compared to someone who just graduated from an elite university who is working as a consultant waiting for law school … and who knows lots about the business world based on his few months (weeks?) of working experience.</p>

<p>I wish we could get people on CC and elsewhere to ease up on the fixation with rankings. The US News destroyed the college experience. You might want to look into where you will be happier. Which environment do you prefer? Both schools are fancy schmancy “elite” universities. Both have great campuses but they are different. UM is bigger with more variety. Maybe it’s too big for you. Maybe Cornell is too small.</p>

<p>Just a side note, I have a friend who graduated from ILR and couldn’t get a job. He wound up volunteering for the Army. Isn’t ILR a labor relations school? I would think that for finance a business school would be preferable.</p>

<p>lol…</p>