My S was recently denied preferred admit to Ross. He is OOS and was accepted direct admit to Kelley, also accepted into Kelley honors as a freshman. Has received sizable merit scholarships from Indiana. Fairly certain that Michigan and Virginia won’t give any merit or financial aid. Having difficult decision whether to attend LSA in fall and apply again to Ross after freshman year or attend UVA and apply to McIntire after sophomore year or attend Kelley which is a sure thing. The college process has been quite stressful and concerned that he may not get into Ross or McIntire although he had 4.0 UW GPA and a 35 on ACT in high school. Who knows what the biz schools are looking for? Would an economics degree from LSA or from UVA be more valuable than a degree at Kelley? Know they are all great schools but wondering which is best for future career in finance. Tuition/expenses is a consideration but not as important as reputation of biz school and career goals.
Does he know what kind of business he is interested in?
Finance and possibly investment banking. Wondering if attempting to apply to Ross next year of McIntire in 2 years is worth the risk and the increased amountof tuition.
That is the problem, isn’t it? With direct admit to Kelley a sure thing, it is hard to beat. You have to feel comfortable with Michigan and UVA in the event that you aren’t admitted to Ross or McIntire. Would an Econ major work instead of the business school?
Unsure whether Econ major at LSA or Virginia will be held in as high regard as BBA from Kelley. That is why my S is having such a difficult time making a decision. Of course if the admission process to Ross or McIntire wasn’t so unpredictable, wouldn’t be having this discussion.
I don’t know…personally, I’d be happier with my kid doing a math/Econ at UM rather than Kelley, and I think he would too.
I’d agree with HRSMom. And, With a student as evidently capable as your son, he is likely able to get into Ross after Freshman year.
The bigger issue to me is the cost differential. You and he will need to determine if that is impactful to your and his finances.
I would like to agree with you @wayneandgarth and while I feel my S is capable of gaining admittance to Ross after Freshman year, there are many factors that come into play in the admission process besides GPA. My S would’ve definitely have gone to Mich if pre-admitted to Ross as he feels, and I concur that, Mich is a great school. However question remains is it worth the risk of graduating LSA with an Econ degree as have read so much about Ross students having so many advantages over an Econ major that it greatly concerns me
If you want a fact to ease your mind slightly about getting into Ross, here it is: the class size is expanding to 580 with the completion of the new Jeff T Blau Hall, so the acceptance rate for freshman applying to Ross is going to be 40%+ next year. Additionally, while Ross students do get career resource advantages over Econ majors, I still feel (albeit I may be biased as a Michigan-Ross student) that even an LSA Econ degree with the leverage of the Michigan alumni network is more potent than the U of Indiana and Kelley.
First of all, I’d eliminate MicInitre right off the bat. Why wait two years when your son has a sure thing at a prestigious school like Kelley (with ‘sizeable merit scholarships’) or a decent chance at getting into an even more presitigous elite business school such as Ross after just one year (which will whiz by)? And putting aside cost for the moment, if your son would have definitely gone to Ross if pre-admit, why not let him go to Michigan and try to get in after freshman year? This way, there will be no “what if”/”what could have been” type of regrets. As Wolverine19 says, the chances of getting in after first year are greater than as a pre-admit. And if your son did so well grade-wise and ACT-wise, he is likely to have a bit of an advantage and greater than average chance, since Ross admissions will still consider his high school stats and standardized test scores (in addition to first year performance) as part of its consideration. Maybe your son can also enhance his chances by doing an extracurricular activity/joining a business organization at Michigan that will further demonstrate his interest in a business career? This could enhance his application if his first year grades are otherwise stellar. Also–did your son visit each of these schools? Which did he feel was a better fit? The happier your kid is in his environment, the greater chance of him working hard and achieving success in his classes. Worse case, if he goes to Michigan LSA and does not get in to Ross after first year, he either stays at the school (assuming he’s loving it) and majors in Economics and receives a reputable degree from an elite University, or he transfers to Kelley or even to MicIntire. He can always transfer. And if cost has to be the deciding consideration and he does not receive any aid at Michigan or Virginia, then go with the least expensive school option–Kelley—remember it is not the school but rather the student—his smarts and hustle-- that will make the difference in securing the job he wants. Each of these schools–Kelley, Ross and MicInite—are really excellent schools and will provide your son with a sound foundation to springboard from, with more or less similar excellent internship and job opportunities. It is up to him to seize the opportunities at whichever one of these schools he attends. He likely will wind up in the same field with similar salary range wherever he decides to go. Good luck!
@trackmbe3, thanks so much for your sound advice. My son has visited all 3 schools and could envision himself going to any of them. Each school has its own charm! Have to disagree about the option of transferring after freshman year, its tough enough to fit in as a freshman, even tougher as a sophomore or junior. As stated earlier, cost is a factor but not the ultimate factor which is why I decided to post the original question. I have read that Ross and McIntire offer greater opportunities for grads than Kelley which is the dilemma my son currently faces.
I’m a student at Michigan and the majority of Ross students are not admitted as an incoming freshman, it’s much more common to apply as freshman. The pre-reqs are tough, but definitely not impossible
Is it accurate that Ross considers high school grades and standardized test scores in addition to first year GPA at Michigan when making decisions on freshman applicants?
IMHO, if your son absolutely, positively MUST go a an undergraduate business school or else he will be crushed, then he should not take a chance. There was recently a thread here in which a few students were very, very bitter about the experience of not getting into Ross.
One thing I have learned is that if you want to go into finance and NOT get a BBA, you are better off going to an undergrad school that does not have an undergrad business programl. Schools like Ross, Kelly, McIntire, etc. appropriate all the business-career resources. But if you go to, say, Colgate, you can major in Art History and still get an entry-level job on Wall Street because the banks recruit liberal arts majors there and there is no business school that claims “ownership” over all things Wall Street.
brantly, there is a very important factor to consider. IBanks usually only recruit students with 3.7+ GPAs. A student with a 3.7+ GPA at Michigan has a very good chance of getting into Ross. So, if a student truly is IBanking material, getting into Ross should be fairly easy.
Furthermore, while it is true that the odds of landing a job in IBanking as a liberal arts major from a target college/university that does not have a business program are better than the odds of landing a job in IBanking as a liberal arts major from a target college/universities that does have a business program, the odds of landing a job in IBanking as a liberal arts major from a non-target college or university that does not have a business program will not be better than the odds of landing a job in IBanking as a liberal arts major from a target college/university with a business program. So, target schools like Dartmouth or Brown over Michigan LSA would make sense, but non-target schools Rice or Vanderbilt over Michigan LSA would not offer any advantage for students seeking jobs in IBanking.
Finally, I realize you are merely using it as an illustration, but Art History majors will typically not make it to the interview stage. IBanks almost always pursue students with demonstrated quantitative and analytical ability. As such, the most common majors for students interested in IBanking are Economics and Mathematics. It is possible for Art History (or other humanities) majors to land a job in IBanking, but they usually have taken a healthy dose of mathematics and economics classes.
Phew!
So, in priority order:
- Target college that has a business school; student majors in business
- Target liberal arts college; student majors in a liberal arts discipline
- Target college that has a business school; student majors in a liberal arts discipline
- Non-target college, student majors in business
- Non-target college, student majors in a liberal arts discipline
Here’s a question: What if a student is interested in going into an area of business that has nothing to do with banking? Say, marketing, human resources, business development, strategy, operations, etc. Is undergrad business school helpful?
"So, in priority order:
- Target college that has a business school; student majors in business
- Target liberal arts college; student majors in a liberal arts discipline
- Target college that has a business school; student majors in a liberal arts discipline
- Non-target college, student majors in business
- Non-target college, student majors in a liberal arts discipline"
It is not that straight forward when it comes to IBanking. For example, Harvard and Princeton would trump most target business programs. In other words, Harvard and Princeton would be greater than Ross, McDonough, McIntire, Haas, Stern and Sloan. The only target business school that would match Harvard and Princeton is Wharton. Brown, Columbia, Cornell, Dartmouth and Duke would match Ross, McDonough, McIntire, Haas, Stern and Sloan. etc…
“What if a student is interested in going into an area of business that has nothing to do with banking? Say, marketing, human resources, business development, strategy, operations, etc. Is undergrad business school helpful?”
This is a much broader question. It depends on the university and on the professional area of interest. For example, if one is interested in HR, ILR programs are very good. Cornell, MSU, UIUC, Purdue, Maryland etc…BBA programs are also excellent. And so are Psychology (especially with a focus on Organization Behavior) and Sociology majors. Those interested in Strategy should attend elite universities, which includes Michigan. They recruit mostly BBAs, Econ/Mathematics majors, and IOE majors from Michigan. I will vary from university to university. However, for most corporate jobs, a BBA is better than a liberal arts major.
A couple things I want to clear up on this post. I’m a student at NYU Stern that has received many Investment Banking offers. First you do not need to get a 3.7+ to get in to IBD - I certainly didn’t have that GPA and still received plenty of interviews and offers at prestigious investment banks. Same with several of my friends who received IBD offers with below a 3.5. The general cutoff is 3.5+ (this varies by bank and some will have lower cutoffs) but there are plenty that break in without it. Obviously the higher the GPA the higher the chance you land more interviews.
The best programs to break into finance (IBD, PE/HF, S&T, ER, AM, etc.) out of undergrad is the following Wharton, Stern, Ross, & Harvard. Wharton and Stern are almost neck in neck with Wharton coming out with a slight edge. There is a very sizable gap between Stern and Ross / Harvard. Princeton doesn’t really come close to these schools for finance recruiting - many prestigious banks / shops don’t even go to recruit there. Keep in mind I’m not saying you should pick Ross over Harvard or anything like that (wouldn’t necessarily be a bad choice however); but this is how placement on Wall Street works.
I mean, it’s actually not close at all between Wharton and Stern. No one at Wharton considered Stern when applying to colleges, and Stern does well with recruiting but the opportunities available there simply don’t compare with what you get at Wharton (or Harvard and Princeton for that matter).
In regards to the original question, I would take Ross.
I must admit, Kelley Investment Banking Workshop is also a great opportunity. I think the best choice is go for Michigan Ross or Kelley Investment Banking Workshop, whichever has the higher chance of happening.