<p>^ xeneise has it right. This bill Rangel is proposing is meant to fail, it is a symbolic gesture that no congressman will vote for it because they don't want there child serving in Iraq. The idea is that congress won't allow wars so readily when their own children are in danger of serving.</p>
<p>Now, more generally, no politician, republican or democrat, will seriously support a bill for the re-instatement of the draft because just about the whole country opposes it.</p>
<p>I live 20 minutes away from NYC. Prior to 9/11, Rudy Guiliani was not exactly loved by the city of New York. In fact, it appeared his legacy wasn't going to be a very good one. In the years leading up to 9/11, Rudy had a nasty and very public divorce with his wife, in which it was found he cheated on her.</p>
<p>"I live 20 minutes away from NYC. Prior to 9/11, Rudy Guiliani was not exactly loved by the city of New York."</p>
<p>What a difference 20 minutes makes. </p>
<p>Sure, Giuliani isn't perfect, but who is?</p>
<p>Obama? No. He used Cocaine while in college. I'm sure that there is more about him that we don't know. He is just beginning to emerge in politics, so as time progresses, I'm sure we'll know more about him.</p>
<p>Hillary? Get out of here! She and Bill wanted to push a national health care plan through that flopped. I am not sure, but I also think that she was originally in favor with the War in Iraq.</p>
<p>I live in NYC and actually, Rudy was liked. He did have scandals, but they all came out, and lets be honest: every politician has something to hide. Barack Obama was a drug-addict. Hillary stayed married to her husband because his affiliation would help her climb her way to the top. </p>
<p>And anyway, Rudy's scandals are out. That means he would have a pretty smooth presidency. And not even looking at 9/11, Rudy really helped NY. He was good. Nobody can deny it. </p>
<p>Out of all the candidates running for president, Rudy's the most capable. I don't know whether he'll win, and I honestly don't think he will, but if the voters were a little more informed, they'd probably all vote for him.</p>
<p>First off, no, i dont see what difference 20 minutes makes, considering I receive the exact same press as NYC does. Secondly, when I did insinuate that every politician was perfect?</p>
<p>I was merely responding to the previous posts of people who were confused as to why people were saying he wasn't a popular mayor. For a time, he wasn't. I consider myself a Republican, and would most likely vote for Guiliani. </p>
<p>"Out of all the candidates running for president, Rudy's the most capable." I doubt that statement, considering Al Gore has already served as Vice-President and won the popular vote in the 2000 election. Again, I am a Republican, no need to bash the Democrats, I agree with you.</p>
<p>"I was merely responding to the previous posts of people who were confused as to why people were saying he wasn't a popular mayor."</p>
<p>This response included comments about Giuliani's personal qualities. So, I "retaliated" with stuff about Obama and Hillary, showing that none of the candidates are perfect.</p>
<p>"I receive the exact same press as NYC does."</p>
<p>Which might explain why you think that he was unpopular. Rudy was a Republican mayor in an extremely Democratic/liberal city. The press, by and large, had a liberal bias, so they would be glad to try and make him look bad. However, none of the stories about his wife could ever change what he did for the city, which was change it from a crime-infested zoo to the safest big city in the US. Many of his accomplishments had to be experienced first-hand by a NYC resident to truly be appreciated. It was only after 9/11 that people outside of NYC began to appreciate what he did on a larger, national scale.</p>
<p>
[quote]
First off, no, i dont see what difference 20 minutes makes, considering I receive the exact same press as NYC does.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>It's not about the press, sportsman. People who live literally inside the city have a much easier time noticing the changes that Rudy brought. Living in Hoboken (or wherever), you can't notice that there is less street crime. You won't really notice that people are getting mugged less after dark. The changes that he brought upon the city were huge, but they were the kinds of things that people living even just outside the city would have trouble noticing. Everybody saw the effects of it in the end. But the causes? Well, that's something else, altogether.</p>
<p>NYU should be sending Giuliani thank-you letters. During his tenrue, he cleaned up the city. Now a lot more people want to go there because they don't have to worry about being mugged. I see a lot of NYU chance threads. Due to its new popularity, it has grown from a decent private school to one of the best colleges in the country with really high standards.</p>
<p>Hepstar, you never responded to my other post regarding the draft.</p>
<p>Sorry - but Guiliani was a mediocre NYC mayor (Bloomberg, thus far, beats him by a mile).</p>
<p>Guiliani didn't really clean up NYC - it was Police Commisioner Bratton, whom Guiliani fired when he thought that Bratton was getting too much credit (nevermind that it was Bratton who came up with the new policing strategies).</p>
<p>During Guiliani's tenure - race relations was at a low and he ruled over the city like an autocrat (not listening to any outside counsel and summarily dismissing all critics - hmmm, I wonder who that reminds us of?). Guiliani's power-grabbing at the end of his term - where he proposed staying on as mayor in lieu of mayor-elect Bloomberg, was troubling to say the least.</p>
<p>Guiliani also left the city in financial shambles since he threw $$ at every interest group (his proposal for the city to finance new ballparks for BOTH the Yankees and the Mets was simply ridiculous).</p>
<p>And let's not forget Guiliani's numerous "indiscretions" and how he promoted loyal cronies - even if they had little qualifications and dubious ethics (can we say Bernard Kerik?).</p>
<p>Sorry - but this lovefest with "America's Mayor" is for people who really haven't seen/experienced Guiliani close-up (and this is coming from a moderate Republican).</p>
<p>"Hepstar, you never responded to my other post regarding the draft."</p>
<p>What you said about Rangel was somewhat true. He is pushing the bill to scare people. However, I think he has a hidden agenda that he isn't telling the public. I think that his attitude is that many of the soldiers being killed are poor and from the ghettos and that a draft would involve evryone's kids, not just them. Keep in mind, Rangel is part black himself so he obvious has an inheret sensitivity toward the ghetto URMs. The district of NY he represents has a very high URM population.</p>
<p>"Sorry - but Guiliani was a mediocre NYC mayor (Bloomberg, thus far, beats him by a mile)."</p>
<p>Sorry, but Bloomberg isn't even close. Property taxes have gone way up while he has been mayor. I have also noticed that on the 4th of July, many of the idiots who set off fireworks on the 4th of July before the Giuliani administration are starting to pop up again. In the 80s, people set off illegal fireworks like crazy, at least in my part of the city. My grandfather's car was even set on fire by one of them. While Giuliani was mayor, these type of people were a lot more scarce. There were some, but not as many. This was because he was very tough on crime, which may be why you compare him to an autocrat. He was a no-nonsense type of guy and he even made sure a crime as petty as setting off illegal fireworks was suppressed. This might have made him come across as a bit harsh, but hey, it's what the city needed.</p>
<p>Why do anti-Giuliani people alwyas bring up Bernard Kerik? As I have said before, no one's perfect. Even Barack Obama, who is just getting inot politics, has already admitted to using Cocaine in college. And this is what he's admitting. The reality could be even worse. I'm sure he probably did other drugs.</p>
<p>Don't even get me started on Hillary. Se used her husband to get herself famous. She talked about him and how great he was and how she was like him. He would up getting Impeached, something not to many Presidents have done. Her main source of fame, her husband, has a tarnished legacy now because he couldn't keep it in his pants. Her husband's gaffe will always be associated with her as well. If you don't believe me that a spouse can affect a politician's career, look up Jeanine Pirro and how her husband has hurt her legacy.</p>
<p>Hillary also pushed for a national helath care bill that failed miserably. If I'm not mistaken, she even voted in favor of going to Iraq; now she speaks out against the war.</p>
<h2>Hepstar - "Sorry, but Bloomberg isn't even close. Property taxes have gone way up while he has been mayor."</h2>
<p>Uhhh - that's b/c Guiliani was **fiscally irresponsible<a href="he%20left%20the%20city%20in%20shaky%20financial%20straits%20-%20even%20before%209/11">/b</a> - so Bloomberg is only cleaning up Guiliani's mess.</p>
<hr>
<h2>"While Giuliani was mayor, these type of people were a lot more scarce. There were some, but not as many. This was because he was very tough on crime, which may be why you compare him to an autocrat. He was a no-nonsense type of guy and he even made sure a crime as petty as setting off illegal fireworks was suppressed. This might have made him come across as a bit harsh, but hey, it's what the city needed."</h2>
<p>As I had stated before, it WASN'T Guiliani who was instrumental in cleaning up crime and implementing new crime prevention strategies - that was Police Commish Bratton (whom Guiliani fired when he got jealous of Bratton's growing celebrity) - Guiliani just likes to take the credit for it.</p>
<p>Plus, under Guilinai's watch, there was a lot of racial tension due to high incidences of police brutality.</p>
<hr>
<h2>"Why do anti-Giuliani people alwyas bring up Bernard Kerik? As I have said before, no one's perfect. Even Barack Obama, who is just getting inot politics, has already admitted to using Cocaine in college. And this is what he's admitting. The reality could be even worse. I'm sure he probably did other drugs."</h2>
<p>Who really cares whether someone experimented with drugs as a young person (just as long as they don't consider mid-30s as a "youthful indiscretion)?</p>
<p>Otoh, it is important whether an elected official picks the most qualified candidates for govt. posts (and one who isn't under a cloud of questionable ethics) merely for the sake of friendship and loyalty.</p>
<p>Due to Guiliani's recommendation, Kerik almost became the Homeland Security Czar - a position that he was vastly unqualified for. The fact that Guiliani is willing to put his "buddies" up for important govt positions (even if they aren't qualified and have had a history of questionable ethics) is an IMPORTANT factor regarding in looking at Guiliani as a viable candidate - don't you think?</p>
<p>Anyway - this is really a moot point since the conservatives would NEVER go along with someone like Guiliani based on his stances on "hot-button" issues.</p>
<p>I don't know whether it's a moot point or not and I certainly don't have polls or statistics to back me up, but I believe there are many conservatives like myself who would like someone "conservative" in key issues like immigration, crime, and taxes--while more liberal in the issues like abortion, gun control and gay marriage. (I'm not even sure where Guiliani stands on all these, just saying it would be MY ideal candidate).</p>
<p>"Who really cares whether someone experimented with drugs as a young person"</p>
<p>How do we know that Obama isn't still using drugs? As I said, if he is admitting to "trying" cocaine in college, which could mean he is hiding a lot more.</p>
<p>"Due to Guiliani's recommendation, Kerik almost became the Homeland Security Czar - a position that he was vastly unqualified for."</p>
<p>Giuliani also endorsed Bloomberg, the same guy you said "beats Giuilaini by a mile." Without this endorsement, he probably wouldn't have beaten Mark Green, his Democratic opponent. </p>
<p>"As I had stated before, it WASN'T Guiliani who was instrumental in cleaning up crime and implementing new crime prevention strategies - that was Police Commish Bratton (whom Guiliani fired when he got jealous of Bratton's growing celebrity) - Guiliani just likes to take the credit for it."</p>
<p>Yes it was Giuliani. His relationship w/Bratton was overhyped in the media, which as I said before is Democrat/liberally biased (Giuliani = Republican). Howard Safir, Bratton's replacement as NYC Police Commish, did just as much (if not more) than Bratton. During his tenure, the NYC overall crime rate went down 38% and the homicide rate went down 44%. Also, NYC saw the lowest number of murders since the 1960s. This crime drop has to be attributed to Giuliani because it occured under both Bratton and Safir.</p>
<p>Mkm56, Giuliani is pro-immigration, but tough on crime, which would mean conservative. He also supports gun control, gay marriage, and abortion.</p>
<h2>Hepstar - "How do we know that Obama isn't still using drugs? As I said, if he is admitting to "trying" cocaine in college, which could mean he is hiding a lot more."</h2>
<h2>All right - you are getting a bit wacky here. How 'bout this - we know about Giuliani's sexual indiscretions that have been publicized - so this could mean that he is "hiding a lot more."</h2>
<h2>"Giuliani also endorsed Bloomberg, the same guy you said "beats Giuilaini by a mile." Without this endorsement, he probably wouldn't have beaten Mark Green, his Democratic opponent. "</h2>
<h2>Sigh - so did a lot of people. Otoh, how many people endorsed Kerik? (Your logic is analgous to forgiving a thief just b/c he goes to church on Sundays.)</h2>
<h2>"Yes it was Giuliani. His relationship w/Bratton was overhyped in the media, which as I said before is Democrat/liberally biased (Giuliani = Republican). Howard Safir, Bratton's replacement as NYC Police Commish, did just as much (if not more) than Bratton. During his tenure, the NYC overall crime rate went down 38% and the homicide rate went down 44%. Also, NYC saw the lowest number of murders since the 1960s. This crime drop has to be attributed to Giuliani because it occured under both Bratton and Safir."</h2>
<p>Sorry - it's not the media, many insiders in the NYPD also say the same.</p>
<p>And crime continues to go down under Bloomberg (not to mention police brutality).</p>
<p>"And crime continues to go down under Bloomberg"</p>
<p>This is because Giuliani got things going. Before him, crime kept rising and rising and hit its peak in the Dinkins administration. The new attitude towards crime took roots under Giuliani's term in office and is continuing to thrive even after he is gone. If anyone is taking credit, it is Bloomberg, who probably wouldn't be in office without Giuliani.</p>
<p>"Sigh - so did a lot of people."</p>
<p>Prior to being endorsed by Giuliani, Bloomberg trailed Green by double-digits in the polls. After the Giuliani endorsement, he takes the lead. I'd say Giuliani's endorsement > any others for Bloomberg.</p>
<p>"Sorry - it's not the media, many insiders in the NYPD also say the same."</p>
<p>I guess they said the same about Howard Safir, who wasn't fired by Giuliani. Crime droped even move after Bratton was out of office, while Safir was Commish.</p>
<p>"Due to Guiliani's recommendation, Kerik almost became the Homeland Security Czar"</p>
<p>It was actually G.W. Bush who nominated him for the position. </p>
<p>As for the "dirt" you have on Giuliani, this is what I have heard so far:</p>
<p>1.) He supposedly fired Commish Bratton out of jealousy.</p>
<p>2.) He had an affair. So did Bill Clinton, JFK, and many other political figures. </p>
<p>3.) Bernard Kerik. </p>
<p>Considering that he was in office for 8 years, it could be much worse. None of these things outweigh the good that he did for NYC, which you are perhaps unaware of since you live in Jersey.</p>
<p>Obama has been in office for less than a year, yet we already know he liked "the white stuff". Some people are also wondering if he is lying about his religious affiliation. He claims to be Christian, despite having a Muslim name, a Muslim father, a Muslim step-father, etc.. Perhaps he doen't want to reveal his real religion out of fear that it could be held against him. Because of 9/11, some people might not want a Muslim in the White House (as discriminating as it sounds).</p>
<p>Giuliani is running!!!</p>
<p>missed that announcement--Yeah!</p>