Running start -- dual enrollment

Parents Forum
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<p>I believe you will need to send the college transcript as well as the high school transcript. In S's case, some of the college classes he took showed up on his high school transcript as "independent study."</p>

<p>I believe that EPGY has financial aid. I don't know if Harvard Extension or other distance learning programs have financial aid for students learning online. It's something to inquire about, though. I know that for area students, Harvard Extension is practically free, thanks to a system of scholarships.</p>

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<p>A quick caveat about epgy. The positive experience others on the board had with epgy led me to suggest it to D. She was very disappointed in Calc II. Tests were graded haphazardly and with such delay they were useless as feedback. At times she was having to instruct the instructor. :( </p>

<p>She ended up studying for calc III by herself and felt that both her experience and her tutor were better. ;)) To be fair, when informed about the total failure the class had been , epgy did step up and offer D a free class to continue her math but she declined, saying (I'm paraphrasing) "If I didn't like their food the first time , why would I want a coupon for a free meal?"</p>

<p>YMMV</p>

23

<p>
[quote]
I only checked MIT and it says that I'll still be a freshman applicant even with dual-enrollment

[/quote]
This is INCORRECT. If you actually <em>enroll</em> at the Community College as a student who could at some point be granted a degree there as a result of your enrollment, you can only apply to MIT as a transfer applicant. You <em>can</em> take courses at the CC in conjunction with your HS courses, and many MIT freshman applicants have done so! But if you enroll at the CC formally, you may not apply for freshman admission to MIT.</p>

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<p>Mr. Chipset:</p>

<p>Be careful about what is meant by "enrollment." An individual can take classes at a college without being enrolled there. Being enrolled usually means being a full-time student. If you take some college classes in addition to your high school classes, you are not considered enrolled in the college.</p>

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<p>If I'm understanding this right, full enrollment is only determined by the amount of courses taken?</p>

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<p>I assume that ccs have admission procedures that one would need to follow. I was, however, cautioned by the Harvard adcom that if my S took a full load of cc courses, he would be considered a college student and thus would have to apply as a transfer if he were to apply to Harvard. Your best bet is to call or email the cc and ask what the procedures are for enrolling and calling the admission office of one or two colleges you may be interested in applying to to ask what they understand by being enrolled in a cc.</p>

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<p>It does depend on the CC. I just checked the website for the CC you mentioned on p.1 -- it talks about their</a> "Running Start" program which presumably is what you had in mind when you started this thread? (Note: the URL you provided on p.1 to link to the CC you're interested in, is wrong.) It does seem to be what you're looking for:
[quote]
Running Start is a unique opportunity for high school juniors and seniors to earn high school and college credit at the same time. Best of all, Running Start students don’t pay any tuition for college level courses!</p>

<p>You can choose to take all your classes at Green River, or you can choose to split your day and take classes at both Green River and your high school. Most classes that will take you a year at your high school, you can complete in just one quarter at Green River!

[/quote]
They then list the requirements you'd need to meet in order to qualify and apply. You might verify with staff at the CC that Running Start is considered just HS enrichment and does not constitute being an enrolled student at the CC before you sign up for it, though. It sounds as if it is, and hence should not conflict with applying for freshman admissions at colleges. Just double-check with the CC and colleges you're interested in, as marite suggests, to be sure.</p>

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<p>Mootmom: Running Start is a co-enrollment program sponsored by WA state that results in the simultaneous awarding of an AA degree from the community college and the HS diploma.</p>

<p>Mr. Chipset: if you're serious about MIT, consider taking as heavy a load as you can stand junior year and going to college at the end of that junior year, rather than hanging around for a boring senior year. MIT and CalTech both allow for apps from juniors and it's better than being bored. (That's what my son did, and he remains quite happy with that choice three years later.)</p>

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<p>Ah, OK, then I take back what I said above -- it's quite possible that being part of Running Start may make you ineligible for freshman admissions at some colleges. Call them all and ask before you get involved in it. (Applying after your junior year is a good idea, too!)</p>

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<p>I have asked UChicago and they replied that if the courses I'll take with Running Start show up on my HS transcript then I should apply as a transfer applicant. :(
I can't really understand logic of how 'showing up on my HS transcript' makes me a transfer applicant though :&lt;/p>

<p>
[quote]
Mootmom: Running Start is a co-enrollment program sponsored by WA state that results in the simultaneous awarding of an AA degree from the community college and the HS diploma.

[/quote]

I suppose that you can just not go for AA degree if you don't want to.

[quote]
They then list the requirements you'd need to meet in order to qualify and apply.

[/quote]

That's basically status of Junior upon taking classes and a certain score on COMPASS test (placement test). This is not like a usual applicant since your tuition is paid by district/school. There's also a specific list of courses that will match school courses of requirements for graduation.

[quote]
Mr. Chipset: if you're serious about MIT, consider taking as heavy a load as you can stand junior year and going to college at the end of that junior year, rather than hanging around for a boring senior year. MIT and CalTech both allow for apps from juniors and it's better than being bored. (That's what my son did, and he remains quite happy with that choice three years later.)

[/quote]

But you have to have diploma from HS then, right?</p>

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<p>I couldn't fit my 12th grade Honors English into my schedule so I am doing the running start program...high school and college credit. </p>

<p>I want to major in English so I don't really care about the college credit but I was wondering if this looked bad for my highschool credits.</p>

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<p>Just make sure it has profound title, like "Study of Shakespeare's works", I believe that CC (well, top ones) classes are better than honors.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
If you enroll full time in a community college, you may have to apply to a four-year college as a transfer student rather than as a freshman, and it is harder to be admitted as a transfer.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>That's definitely not the way dual enrollment programs work. They are HIGH SCHOOL, and as such the students they don't as previous college enrollment for purposes of applying to four-year college programs. Minnesota's PSEO program, which was the national pioneer of such programs, is just like WA state's Running Start program in this respect. Here in MN, such a dual enrollment program is one of the BEST ways to get into a highly competitive undergraduate college.</p>

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<p>To Mr. Chipset: </p>

<p>Of the choices you describe, Running Start is the best local choice for you and for your goals. </p>

<p>You do NOT need a high school diploma to get into a good college. Specifically, MIT has never required a high school diploma. </p>

<p>Any college admission officer who would make you ineligible for freshman admission because you've been a Running Start student is an idiot--the better colleges are very familiar with programs like your state's Running Start or my state's PSEO, and they will be glad to have you if you do well in your Running Start program.</p>

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<p>I think several of the replies are confusing matriculating at the community college with attending the community college and taking its classes as part of WA state's well known dual-enrollment program. Taking part in a dual-enrolment program is being a high school student. The student who completes such a program still applies to MIT, to Harvard, to Yale, or wherever as a freshman applicant. </p>

<p>I have asked about this on Matt McGann's MIT admission blog: </p>

<p><a href="http://matt.mitblogs.com/archives/2006/04/april_questions_2.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://matt.mitblogs.com/archives/2006/04/april_questions_2.html&lt;/a> </p>

<p>"We have plenty of applicants, some homeschooled and some just more advanced than their school, who take lots of courses in college. As long as they are not enrolled in a degree program, this isn't an issue. The most famous recent example was Reid Barton '05, who came in with years and years of college credit."</p>

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<p>Tokenadult, this is very optimistic, thank you a lot! :)
Perhaps, I'll try consulting my councelor yet tommorow about RS and keep schedule for Running Start route.</p>

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<p>"Running Start is a co-enrollment program sponsored by WA state that results in the simultaneous awarding of an AA degree from the community college and the HS diploma. "</p>

<p>Not necessarily. S has been taking Running Start classes(at WSU) his junior and senior year with no intention of getting an AA degree. He simply wanted to try some things not available at his small HS. He applied to colleges as a freshman with some college credits( 32 ) , had no problems.</p>

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<p>Okay, this is probably going to be a long post... Just a warning ;)</p>

<p>I'm a senior in Washington state's dual enrollment program (Running Start). I've had a wonderful experience and am extremely thankful for the opportunity to take these challenging classes.</p>

<p>From what I've found, its very important to spend a lot of time investigating which community college you're planning to attend. It may not make any difference to colleges, but it will definitely affect your experience there greatly. Case in point, I attended a great community college junior year. It was tiny, new, high-tech, and had excellent teachers. The individualized attention there was unbelievable. Most classes had 10-15 people and the professors were extremely engaging during lecture and supportive not only during class, but also outside of it. Emails were almost always responded to in an hour, office hours were plentiful, and professors were truly focused on teaching. I loved my time there. Now, I have "outgrown" the tiny community college and take classes at a different one. Classes are a little bigger, teachers are a bit busier, students don't work together as much. Its still a lot better than my previous experience in high school, but I've now realized how lucky I was to attend the tiny one first. </p>

<p>Second, choose your courses wisely! I can not stress this enough. The truth is you're not going to find too many slackers in Calculus or Calc-Based Physics ;) On the other hand, Art 101 or College Success may have some less-motivated students. Also take time to choose your professors if you can. Go somewhere like ratemyprofessors.com and scrutinize the ratings. Usually, I try to find professors with a very low easiness rating and very high helpfulness rating. A good professor can make even your least favorite subject come alive!</p>

<p>Also, be aware that you may "outgrow" the community college. This quarter, I'll be finishing up the Calculus, Chemistry, and Physics sequences at my community college. I think I probably would have also ran out of math/science AP courses at my high school anyway though, so I'm not entirely sure it was a result of the dual-enrollment. For next semester (winter and spring quarter), I plan to take some classes at the university as a non-matriculated student. However, I do not think the school district will pay for these classes like they paid for the Running Start ones. Its probably going to cost me 3,000-4,000 dollars for the semester, but I believe its worth it. You may want to check with your high school counselor to see if you can work out some sort of agreement. </p>

<p>As for what colleges think
I really have no idea. I've heard so many different opinions on this board ranging all the way from "You have a crazy rigourous courseload" to "Community college classes are horrible." Right now, the only thing I know for sure is that this was the right choice for me. These courses I've taken have been so much more rigourous and engaging than any AP class I ever took at my high school. I did not enjoy my AP courses one bit. I hated the teaching to the test, the constant "Oh, that's not important because its not on the AP test." We spent a whole year taking practice exams and watching movies! No lectures, no tests, no real learning for the sake of learning. I suppose those AP classes might have left a sour taste in my mouth, but I still am extremely satisfied with my decision. </p>

<p>For applying to colleges, I believe you will be okay as long as you do not drop out of high school. Most colleges are aware that students exhaust their curriculum and may choose to take courses at nearby colleges. I am unsure as to whether earning an associate's degree would change the "status" of an applicant. Personally, I've chosen not to earn the associate's degree. I will be approximately 2 classes short of the degree, but would rather spend my time in higher math and science classes.</p>

<p>Lastly, I believe one of the main benefits of Running Start is the speed at which the material is covered. The college I attend is on a quarter system and those 11-12 weeks sure go by fast! As a result of the fast-pace, I'll be able to sink my teeth into college junior and senior level math and physics classes at the university next semester (thermodynamics, modern physics, multivariable calc, ordinary and partial diff eq, fourier analysis, linear algebra, etc...). To a math and science girl like me, this is extremely exciting. My high school simply didn't offer these classes and Running Start helped me to get to these classes while I'm in high school. </p>

<p>I feel Running Start's really been a win-win situation for me. I've challenged myself with rigourous classes, hard teachers, and overloaded on the credit limit. I plan to apply to competitive colleges and hopefully explain a little as to why I made the choices I did (without hijacking the thread, I was wondering if you parents thought this was okay?). If I do get into my top choice (<em>crosses fingers while repeating MIT over and over</em>;)) , then I'll celebrate a lot and later enter without expecting my credits to transfer. Those credits I earned were mostly free anyways ;) Hopefully I'll be able to talk to professors and place out of some intro. courses. If I end up not getting into my top choices, then so be it. I'm applying to UWashington as well as a safety where all of my credits will transfer. I feel the opportunity to take challenging classes is well worth the "risk."</p>

<p>Good luck with your decision!</p>

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<p>Parabella,</p>

<p>I was just wondering if your son's courses at WSU were funded by Running Start? I'm trying to work something out for winter and spring quarter, but was under the impression I'd need to pay for it myself. I estimated tuition as 3,000-4,000 dollars, but if I don't need to use my savings that would be amazing news. </p>

<p>Also, thanks to everybody who offered advice and anecdotes on this thread. I've found it all very helpful :)</p>

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<p>zpmqxonw</p>

<p>Yes, all the classes at WSU were funded by Running Start. It worked very well for us too. Helped S to find something he is passionate about ( alas, not sciences, his dad was heartbroken...... for a very short while) .</p>