<p>GreekLife, welcome to college. I challenge you to compare that to any other elite college in the nation and say those numbers are high.</p>
<p>Depression is a problem on every campus, including W&L. That is why depression and suicide is the topic of this years day of dialogue, which btw is sponsored by the Greek System.</p>
<p>Um, GreekLife's "statistic" was: </p>
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[quote]
by graduation, 80% of W&L kids will at one point or another receive counseling
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</p>
<p>I don't see any support for that claim whatever. None. </p>
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[quote]
Depression affects nearly 1 in 5 students on this campus.
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</p>
<p>That one at least seems reasonably credible. It also has the advantage of being supported by a claim from the Counseling Center.</p>
<p>BTW, I'm certainly not trying to belittle the concern or minimize the reality of depression among college students at W&L or elsewhere. </p>
<p>I'm just trying to introduce a modicum of rationality and accountability into a discussion which has been, at times, dominated by two particular contributors whose version of W&L life borders on hysteria.</p>
<p>W&L's statistic doesn't really make sense, is it 1/5 or 44%? Furthermore the 44% is "so depressed it was difficult to function" yet it only affects 1 in 5?</p>
<p>have some of the fraternities departed from traditional hazing and intitiation and gone the route of community service? is so, which ones are they?</p>
<p>Technically, none of the fraternities "haze."</p>
<p>However, from watching the guys going through pledgeship, I'm pretty sure all but one or two "educate" their members.</p>
<p>I don't know of any that are community service oriented. I'm sure some do participate in community service every now and then, but there is not a specific "community service frat."</p>
<p>Moreso than the sororities, the fraternities seem to be the organizing tool for the social scene, and all that comes with it.</p>
<p>Yeah, the average rates for depression on college campuses vary from 10-20%. W&L is just about average in this regard. My friend who is receiving counseling commented that the counseling center is much more booked during Winter term (due usually to girls falling through or guys going through pledgeship)... so our numbers might be lower if we managed to do something about the negative side effects of our Greek system. </p>
<p>Which leads me to musictoad's question--actually, I believe that all fraternities do community service to some extent, but to my knowledge all but my fraternity (which has a four year personal and professional development program, which does include community service) and the two historically black fraternities still do the traditional pledgeship routine (but this is not saying that they all do things that would classify as hazing). All of our fraternities are "no-hazing," but as GreekLife said this is really B.S.--right now there are five fraternities undergiong serious hazing investigations, and there is a very high possibility that one or more will be kicked off campus, which will hopefully lessen the severity of hazing next year. From what I hear though, it's nowhere near as bad as it was a few years ago. In case you didn't know, in 80s, fraternity membership was at about 25%, and not much hazing went on... it then apparently picked back up again once fraternities had their resurgence. Thus the "tradition" excuse that members use to haze pledges doesn't really hold water, as the "traditions" have been severely mutated over time. I hope this helps and that it doesn't "border on hysteria."</p>
<p>I know this thread is old, but a friend told me about it, and it made me really feel the need to sign up and reply. This might be a little redundant as I haven't read over every word of every post here, and it is completely irrelevant to the last post, but I still want to say this to the prospectives of the incoming class.</p>
<p>Although it's been said by some, I just want to reiterate -- you CAN be VERY happy at W&L.</p>
<p>W&L is everything I dreamed it would be, and believe it or not, I have the Greek system to thank for that. Unlike many other students, I did not enjoy fall term freshman year. I had a terrible roommate, I missed home, I thought no one here could compare to my friends from home, I hated living with someone with whom I was incredibly incompatible, etc. After rush week, that changed for me.</p>
<p>Although five is not a big number and many seem to think the sororities lack variety, you must understand that each sorority is not, in fact, made up of clones of one single kind of girl. There IS a place for everyone. There are different kinds of girls who appreciate different things in each house. You just have to be open-minded enough to find your niche. I didn't think I'd wind up where I did, but I couldn't be happier. I live in the sorority house now, and I can't tell you how much I miss it when I'm away. My roommate called me just two hours into her drive home for Feb break just to say, "I miss you already." Over break, we had a house email chain that got at least 10 responses a day because we all missed each other so much.</p>
<p>I know that sounds corny, but it's true. I have found real friendship here, and I hate to be all Suzy Srat about it, but it's the only honest reason I can give you. I never thought I could create bonds here like the ones I have with my friends at home, but on so many occasions here, I've finally realized that I can, and I HAVE. I'm almost saddened by the thought of summer because it means I won't be living with these girls anymore.</p>
<p>I just want incoming students to keep an open mind and not be scared off by some of the comments / statistics posted on this board. It is true that W&L really is not for everyone; the Greek system plays a huge part in that. You need to know who you are before you make your decisions come rush week, and that can be a difficult thing for college freshmen. But the more you know yourself, the happier you will be; you have to disregard social-climbing and outside influences. The people who are not your friends after rush week were never your friends in the first place. They don't matter and you shouldn't let them make you any less happy.</p>
<p>I go to W&L, I am in what I consider to be a good sorority, and I am not depressed, anorexic, or addicted to any kind of drugs. I have a group of guy friends with whom my girl friends and I interact in non-drinking settings; we went sledding in the winter together, we go out to eat together sometimes, we sit together in the co-op. I know W&L is in no way conducive to those kinds of relationships, but we're friends, we get along, so we do what we want and it works.</p>
<p>The best part of all this is that I know I'm not the only happy one. The reason you don't hear about us is because we are all doing fine and have no reason to complain or "warn" anyone about coming to W&L -- "no news is good news." Morgan mentioned in an earlier post that the students posting on here aren't the prototypical W&L students you hear about on the Princeton Reivew, or something to effect. I, however, think I am, and I'm not ashamed of it. You can stereotype me and say I fit that W&L mold, but I know who I am as an individual and I know I am a unique person, regardless of how I dress, what I look like, or my Greek affiliation. </p>
<p>Being a happy sorority girl at W&L does not automatically make you a clone with an inerest for nothing other than pearls and an MRS degree... so I don't want prospectives to be scared away by that idea that it does. The problems stated with the Greek system can largely be attributed to personal insecurities and a poor sense of self-assurance. It's hard to know exactly who you are at this point in your life; in fact, it may be the toughest time to do so. It's hard to reject outside influences from your friends and upperclassmen and hard to avoid climbing the social ladder. But you should be able to sense where you feel comfortable and where you do not. Generally, as long as you avoid doing insanely stupid things, no one will ball you and you'll have a chance to meet everyone and decide which house is best for you; that goes for guys and girls.</p>
<p>Prospective students, take it from me: although so many of the negative things said in this forum are, sadly enough, completley accurate, there is hope. And lots of it. So many of we LOVE being W&L students. I can't imagine being this happy anywhere else.</p>
<p>(Sorry if that was long overdue / completely unecessary, but I wanted to throw out that "stereotypical" W&L student opinion.)</p>
<p>I was hoping this thread would never see the light of day again (so as to not scare off prospective students), but I just wanted to say thank you to 09general for that excellent post. That's really exactly how I feel at this point. "...the more you know yourself, the happier you will be; you have to disregard social-climbing and outside influences," perfectly sums up the attitude one should have at W&L. I think we can all agree that many students don't disregard these things, which is what breeds many of the problems mentioned in this thread, but like 09general said, if you're just happy with and confident in yourself, there's no need to let that stuff bother you.</p>
<p>So, with that said, just listen to bmulez: "Why couldn't this thread have just ended with Morgan's last post and Dima's response? Both sides admitted to hyberole and everything appeared to be resolved. Let's not debate statistics that aren't relevant or useful to anyone reading this." I have repeatedly stated the positives of W&L to balance whatever negative insights I have given and would appreciate an end to Marsden's ad-hominem attacks.</p>
<p>Anyway, I just want to reiterate how excellent my academic experience has been here; I chose W&L because it seemed it was rather unaffected by the plague of political correctness and liberal bias that has hit academia, and while PCness most definitely exists, I am quite confident that I am receiving the most well-balanced education I could ask for (I'm a politics & sociology/anthropology major, BTW).</p>
<p>Thank you 09General for a great post.</p>