<p>I can’t imagine there’s much satisfaction in letting someone else (even, or especially, your parents) make major life decisions for you. Where is the potential for growth, for self-knowledge in that? And without that self-knowledge and the maturity that comes from learning from mistakes, then indeed you will not know “what your “heart” is saying”.</p>
<p>Then again, real maturity means you can listen to your parents’ opinions and suggestions. However, this requires maturity and wisdom, not to mention a lack of self interest, on the part of the parents.</p>
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<p>God, that’s depressing. Do you really want to squash all those young, idealistic minds? Everyone finds out about boredom sooner or later—boredom in relationships, in your marriage, with your children, walking your dog, and certainly at work. Sounds like you have punishment in mind (how dare anyone think they might like, even love their job?!). The advantage of those of us who like our jobs is that we have a much higher tolerance for necessary boredom, because we know that’s not all there is. And the way to get a job that we like is to put a whole lot of effort (research, study, asking for advice) into finding out who we are (which brings me back to the beginning of my post).</p>
<p>“And the way to get a job that we like is to put a whole lot of effort (research, study, asking for advice) into finding out who we are.”</p>
<p>Couldn’t disagree more. The best way to find a “good” job (however one defines that) is to accumulate marketable skills and qualifications in order to have choices. In my view, that is the primary purpose for going to college.</p>
<p>Taking time out to raise kids is always a challenge when going back into the job market, whether after a divorce or separation or for any other reason. It is important to polish job skills and maintain contacts so that when you are kept informed about openings and what skills are needed.<br>
It is great to have a good skillset to offer your job and help create your own job as needed.</p>
<p>EMM1 - I think you have a really, really negative attitude about jobs/working in general. </p>
<p>And talk about not being able to disagree more:</p>
<p>“Couldn’t disagree more. The best way to find a “good” job (however one defines that) is to accumulate marketable skills and qualifications in order to have choices. In my view, that is the primary purpose for going to college.”</p>
<p>That is NOT why either of my kids are going to college - well, it’s part of the reason, but definitely not the PRIMARY purpose. There is sooooo much more to college. You really are talking more about “vocational school.” And I’m sure that’s great for some kids.</p>
<p>I, however, hope my kids get much, much, much more from their college years. Learning independence, making decisions, discovering things about themselves and what they really want to “do” in life. I don’t think they’re necessarily ready to make a committment to a lifelong profession at 18…they need to do some investigating. I’m happy to give advice and help guide them - but “make” decisions for them that they really need to learn how to make on their own - NO WAY.</p>
<p>I never suggested that children should make a lifelong commitment to a particular vocation at 18–what I said was that college should be viewed primarily as a place where they can accumulate skills and credentials in order to create employment options.</p>
<p>Frankly, the idea that college is the best place for “learning independence [and] making decisions” strikes me as a myth perpetrated by the chattering classes. If that is the goal, then (if possible) children should be sent out into the real world for a while rather attending some fantasy land where their needs are largely met by others.</p>
<p>I think for many people, college is an investment in the future. So it is natural for parents who are paying for a student to attend college to want to know that their money is being invested wisely. The student in question does have a choice…he can find a way to pay for college himself and major in whatever he wants.</p>
<p>College is a journey of discovery…sometimes you follow the path laid out before you and sometimes you have to cut new trails.</p>
<p>EMM - you really are pretty black & white aren’t you? No real gray area…</p>
<p>My daughter, who is in college, is neither TOTALLY independent, nor is she living in a fantasy land. Rather, she is in a place where she is working towards independence and moving away from living at home with us and our supporting her. These 4 years are the perfect middle ground that she can probably never have again. Not quite the real world, not quite a total fantasy land. At least that’s how I look at it - that’s what’s right for my kids.</p>
<p>“My friend’s major in anthropology wasn’t very helpful when her husband left her with 3 small kids. She worked 3 minimum wage jobs to support her kids. That boring accounting or engineering degree certainly would have made her life easier!”</p>
<p>"Did she keep up her job skills and contacts while staying home with three young children? That is going to make a bigger impact in being able to reenter the work force after divorce or job loss of the primary wage earner, not the choice of undergraduate major.
( plus didn’t her husband share custody pay child support? ) "</p>
<p>She was happily living in suburbia - no museums nearby. Her husband went back to his homeland (Saudi Arabia) and she didn’t get a cent for years. If she’d had a more practical degree it would have been MUCH less of an issue.</p>
<p>I think that most of the parents on CC are so wealthy that they don’t really NEED to think about the financial opportunities of their kids chosen field. That’s great I guess. If you’re going to support them for the rest of their lives let them major in basket-weaving, but if you’re NOT, don’t you owe it to them to point out the financial repercussions of their dreamworld? Maybe help them make some subtle changes (ie major in business and minor in your basketweaving so you could have a shop one day?). Seems cruel to me to let them graduate and find that their chosen path is a dead-end road. </p>
<p>My son would LOVE to sit at the anchor desk at ESPN, but I pointed out that there are millions of people who would love that job and maybe 10 guys who actually DO that job. You want to find something you enjoy and make yourself marketable in that field. I don’t think it’s ‘vocational school’, but certainly the hope is to provide for a good life later (and yes, to me that means a reasonable income).</p>
<p>Just for the record: Dad’s a civil servant, and as I’ve already said, Mom’s a secretary. Definitely NOT wealthy here…We work hard and do OK, but neither of us are “in it for the $”</p>
<p>And also for the records: I want my kids to be able to support themselves - they both know we are definitely NOT in any type of position to do it for them for the rest of their lives!! However, I don’t think you have to sacrifice your dreams/passions for the sake of pursuing a high-paying career. That’s all I’m saying. One of the things my son thinks he might want to pursue is writing - as in being an author. What are the chances that he’ll be able to actually make a living and support himself at that? Probably not too likely. However, ya gotta follow your dreams! If he can’t become a published author maybe he can find something else in the publishing field…maybe he’ll decide he wants to teach English…maybe he’ll decide law school is for him. Who knows. I’m just not going to budge from my opinion that trying to convince someone to major in something they’re not truly interested in or passionate about is a bad idea. Have I mentioned that this is MY opinion for MY family? If other things work for other people (and both parents and children are good with it) - go for it.</p>
<p>Depends on your definition of “good” job. What you describe is actually the second step in the process. First comes figuring out where your inclinations, talents, motivations, and interests lie. That’s where the first couple of years of college come in, ideally. THEN, you start finding out what the practical applications are, what kinds of jobs and fields are available (this is where CC parents come in as a resource). You also start to “accumulate marketable skills and qualifications in order to have choices.” Of course, this is not necessarily a linear process as I’ve laid out (life never is). EMM1, you act like it’s a mathematical formula where you plug in the numbers and voila, you have a high paying job. If only life were that simple.</p>
<p>My dad felt that the only careers useful for a woman were nursing, teaching, or secretarial, because you could always get a job in one of them. He was very dubious about “computer science” because after they had programmers for the 25 machines IBM could sell, where would the jobs be? Then it was worse – instead of working on those big IBM computers I started working with minicomputers running some weird thing called Unix, and the Arpanet. And nobody would ever use those except as toys, right?</p>
<p>I try to remember this as I hear of kids going into video game development, recreation management and other less-traditional majors.</p>
<p>“Anybody else know of any stories similar to this where a parent’s wishes for their child went over what the child actually wanted? (Not college choices but the choice of a career)”</p>
<p>I am one of those parents “who went over what the child actually wanted.”</p>
<p>Our guidance and philosophy for the kids at that time was “pick something(a major) you are good at” ie. ability, something that can support you in the life style you wish to have…</p>
<p>Here is what happened. D wanted to study English and be an editor in a publishing house. She had never shown much initiative or drive in anything in her life at that time, except perhaps at shopping for high priced clothing- like SFMK jeans and living the good life. </p>
<p>I had a very good friend who was a senior editor in a major publishing house. I knew the kind of hard work and life she had and I knew it was not for my d, who had no clue. We fought for a bit and she went to college for general arts and sciences. She is graduating next year, and she still have no idea what she wants to do and now, in this tough economic environment, begin to understand what I was trying to say when I said it’s harder to find a job with a general arts degree than in a professional major like all our friends kids and her friends. The ones in pharmacy, cs, business school have higher pay, specific job internships, she does not have the same opportunities.</p>
<p>“I try to remember this as I hear of kids going into video game development”</p>
<p>Video game development majors (and they’re not so esoteric anymore) run from software engineering to product development. There are good and useful skills that apply to general software engineering in that major so I don’t see that big of a risk there.</p>
<p>“Depends on your definition of “good” job. What you describe is actually the second step in the process. First comes figuring out where your inclinations, talents, motivations, and interests lie. That’s where the first couple of years of college come in, ideally. THEN, you start finding out what the practical applications are, what kinds of jobs and fields are available”</p>
<p>This is harder if you want to go into a major that’s packed fairly tight in terms of the courses and the schedule.</p>
<p>“I can’t imagine there’s much satisfaction in letting someone else (even, or especially, your parents) make major life decisions for you. Where is the potential for growth, for self-knowledge in that? And without that self-knowledge and the maturity that comes from learning from mistakes, then indeed you will not know “what your “heart” is saying”.”</p>
<p>Most people are comfortable letting others make major decisions for them. Do you trade your own 401K or use a mutual fund manager? Do you draw up a budget for your city and bring it to the mayor or just look at what he produces?</p>
<p>There is the learning from mistakes. But mistakes can be costly or fatal.</p>
<p>“Then again, real maturity means you can listen to your parents’ opinions and suggestions. However, this requires maturity and wisdom, not to mention a lack of self interest, on the part of the parents.”</p>
<p>Auto insurance companies have their highest rates for males under 25 years old. Probably because their losses are greatest in that age category. Here’s a question for you: would you entrust your entire family wealth to your 18-year-old? Do they have the maturity to manage it? Why or why not?</p>
<p>BC - I feel as though you don’t really stay on topic here…who said they wanted to let their 18 year old child manage all of the family wealth? That makes no sense at all. I do, however, feel that an 18 year old should be able to manage their own college career. Apples and oranges…</p>
<p>And you’re very dramatic - yes, mistakes can be “fatal” but I don’t go through life worrying that every decision my son makes is going to turn out poorly!!! Why the negativity? If I believed every thing you said, I’d be terrified my son was going to go away to college, major in beer pong, knock-up his girlfriend, crash his brand new 2009 Porsche (which I guess we’ll be getting for him since we must be obnoxiously wealthy to have our attitudes), manage our 401K from his hospital bed after the accident, and then spend the rest of his life mooching off of us because he’s destined to be a starving artist due to his poor life choices. (Unless of course he loses his life early due to one of his fatal mistakes.)</p>
<p>“BC - I feel as though you don’t really stay on topic here…who said they wanted to let their 18 year old child manage all of the family wealth? That makes no sense at all. I do, however, feel that an 18 year old should be able to manage their own college career. Apples and oranges”</p>
<p>I actually asked our son to do that a few years ago. He declined as he knew how hard it is to manage money as he’s seen me do it over the years. It’s not really all that different - managing resources. One is wealth, the other is time and income.</p>
<p>“Boy are we gonna be sorry!!!”</p>
<p>My point is that judgement at 18 is frequently iffy. Sometimes it isn’t. Alexander certainly had talents far above his age. But there clear areas where judgement at the college years, particularly the earlier ones, isn’t the best in some areas. Particularly those in relation to the long-term.</p>
<p>The whole point of being 18 and going to college is that you are not responsible for the welfare of an entire family, yours or anyone else’s. (I know, there are some young people with unfair burdens but putting that aside for now…) You are learning how to be able to take on that kind of responsibility. How do you learn that if your parents make your decisions for you? Mistakes in choosing a major are generally not fatal. I agree with China, why so much negativity? And why so much planning for disaster? I choose to have faith that most things will go all right for my kids. I can’t insure (ensure?) their future safety anymore than I can insure mine. </p>
<p>And your analogies of money/city management don’t work— hiring experts in their field is something I do as a choice, as an adult recognizing the limitations of my own interests. I’m not asking them how I should spend the next 10 years of my life, just what to do with my chunk of change. Just because I don’t do everything myself doesn’t mean that I can’t think for myself.</p>
<p>We have some philosophical disagreements here. I’m not saying I never advise my kid, I often do. But I am never going to tell either of my kids not to pursue their passion. Even though one is pursuing art and the other writing. Yeah, I know it’s going to be a tough road. But the one who’s graduated from college with an art degree? He surprised us all with how successful he has been. If I’d been all negative about his choices in college, not only would my lack of faith in him been a real killjoy, I would never get to experience the delightfully unexpected turns in his life.</p>
<p>Mousegray - I agree whole-heartedly with everything you said above…and thanks for saying it so well!! I know both of my kids are well aware that not all parents are quite as open-minded regarding college and career plans (my son - like your child - is entering college with the burning desire to somehow propel his absolute love of writing into a fulfilling career). I know someone with a daughter who has always dreamed of going into the field of fashion, but she’s been told (by her parents) that she MUST be an education major - so she can teach. I know that’s not the end of the world (in any way, shape or form), but why not foster her true passion? The way I look at it, even when someone first graduates from college, hopefully they’re not going to be in a position to have to support a family…they still have some years to build a career. Again, I’d just never want to “strong-arm” my kids into something they might regret (or resent) later. You’re right - there are just some basic philosophical differences here - which is certainly true of everything in life, right?</p>
<p>My kids definitely appreciate the fact that we encourage their dreams. I’m sure yours do too!! Good luck to all.</p>