<p>I'll keep it short. My parents have been encouraging throughout the college application/selection process but yesterday told me flat-out that they though it would be irresponsible and "stupid" to go to Columbia (my first choice and the college my best friend is going to), given our financial situation. We're in the too poor and too rich boat that many of you are familiar with.</p>
<p>I guess what I'm really asking is...</p>
<p>does anybody have any suggestions for lottery numbers?</p>
<p>(The picture isn't as bleak as I make it out to be. I'm still holding out hope for large merit scholarships from Duke and NYU, and Alabama would pay me to go. It's just disappointing that I find out now after I'd gotten my hopes up.)</p>
<p>Voronwe, never underestimate the power of hope and delusion.
BofP, let me tell you a little true story - once upon a time there was a young, idealistic high school teacher teaching at rural high school, much like yours, in the southern part of the county west of you. Early in his career, about the 3rd year of teaching, he had that once in a lifetime student - 36 on the ACT one try, never made less than a 95 on a test, despite having to throw up before each exam, not a "plugger", naturally brilliant. She was a first generation college student, dad was a mechanic or worked for IP, something like that, got truly recruited by HYPand MIT, was low enough income that they were offering virtual full rides, etc. But she had never been north of I-10, had a boyfriend who was getting on at the shipyard, just could not go. She accepted a full ride at Alabama - the young teacher was devastated, convinced she was throwing her life away, her big chance, just knew she would be home to the going nowhere boyfriend within the first semester.
But you know what? By the end of the first year she shed the boyfriend, became really turned on by chemistry and chemical engineering, graduated close to the top of the class at AL, got an NSF grant and a PhD at UIUC.
She came back to see the wiser young teacher, and said thanks, you made me love chemistry first, and you cared about me enough to beg me to go to Harvard. But the now older, wiser teacher said, I was wrong, things work out as they are meant to, you were the wisest.</p>
<p>No moral to this story really, because you want to leave, but can't; but don't lose heart, Alabama is a lot better school than rankings may show and the good folks on this board realize - it is what YOU do with what you are given.
PS - the other Alabama engineering grad I know well, did grad work at Stanford, and is one of the smartest people I know.</p>
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If you are a senior waiting for results, isn't March a bit late for your parents to be telling you this?
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<p>I think they always assumed that I would come around to their view on the money issue. However, these boards are full of the type of concerned parents that will send their kid wherever regardless of the money. That's not to say that mine aren't concerned, they just look at the numbers and prospect of financial renumeration as a physicist or other scientist, and it doesn't make any sense, financially at least.</p>
<p>So yes, we could afford it. My parents could take out loans to cover the whole thing without stretching too much. That's just not the kind of people they are though. The first new car we've ever had is our current minivan, and the only expense they've ever had that was more expensive than cheap is the house we recently built, which came at a pretty bad time, at least for me and my financial aid process.</p>
<p>It's just a question of your point-of-view, and they're the American, hard-working, bootstrap types. They saved about half of the amount of a state school in funds for each of the kids, and expected us to cover the rest. They weren't anticipating private school prices.</p>
<p>I'm trying not to sound whiny, because I know I can go for free at a fine school (as I realize Alabama is).</p>
<p>Take the money your parents are offering and take out student loans. Do't give up on your dreams! you have a lifetime to [pay the loans and only one chance for your college experience. Don't settle go have an extraordinary life and college experience. If we could not afford it I would telll my child to take out the loans!! I am a parent and believe if you have worked so hard you deserve the best not just okay!!</p>
<p>Here's another viewpoint from someone in almost the exact same position as you are: I too got a very large scholarship (the Tier I. I think I remember you from the interview day actually!) from Alabama and have already gotten a likely from an Ivy (Dartmouth). Our EFC turned out to be absurdly high, and my parents have explained that they could only cover a small amount of the cost without digging into their retirement savings or taking out large loans. I understand their concerns and did my best to apply to schools where merit aid would be plentiful. </p>
<p>Now we get to your situation: Columbia vs. Alabama. First, have you visited both campuses? UA is incredibley helpful and willing to accomodate top students: I have been invited down to Tuscaloosa numerous times with all expenses paid. Also, be sure to contact professors in your area of interest and inquire more into their departments. You definitely can't judge a department by the reputation of the school as a whole. Additionally, Alabama has many programs geared towards top students; did you apply for the Blount Living-Learning program? The Computer-Based Honors program? The International Honors Program? From what I've seen, Alabama would definitely satisfy my own desire for high-level coursework and intelligent conversation. </p>
<p>There is a vast gap between the two places in terms of social life. If your heart is set on a large city such as NYC, then Tuscaloosa is definitely no comparison. </p>
<p>Of course, you may be fortunate and receive a large scholarship elsewhere, but if it comes down to Alabama and Columbia, be sure to give Alabama a fair hearing.</p>
<p>I think 1536 has a good point. If the debt is yours, are you willing to take it? Your parents might help with loans if you promise to pay them back.</p>
<p>Bof P, obviously you need to wait until you have an acceptance, financial aid info, etc from Columbia, before you can really make a decision, but I agree with your parents, if you have to go into massive debt it is not worth it. Good people on this forum will disagree, and you must factor in future plans for grad school and future earnings. Do some research and try to come up with a debt figure that you can live with and compare it to the figure Columbia says you should pay, that may sway you one way or the other.
What I would tell you though, if you were my son, is that the freedom a free college education will give you is a priceless opportunity, not to be bartered away lightly. You will be able to spend 4 years concentrating purely on your studies, doing unpaid internships or research if that is your choice vs working wherever because you have to. Then when you finish, you can compete for best possible grad school, without worrying about the size of the stipend or do I need to get a job to begin paying off this loan, etc. The debt will affect you for the next 20 years of your life at least. That's what your parents see, the many years of money worry that you will have vs 4 years in NYC.
It is a hard decision, because you will give up a unique school, but as my friend who did grad work at Stanford would tell you, they look at the last school you attended when you get that first job, and after the first couple of years on the job, they can't remember where you went to school! That's true in a lot of professions.</p>
<p>I don't know what I'd decide to do in this situation, but I would throw into the hopper more than the on-campus experience of four years. If you didn't have financial obligations, for example, how would you REALLY want to use your summers, to further your education, and your life in generally?If you really didn't have to work 20 hours a week on campus, how would you REALLY like to use those extra 20 hours? </p>
<p>Now, I personally (back in the dark ages) chose otherwise, worked like a dog (actually, more like a lower-income class person, which I was) during the summer, and worked at both college bookstores during the school year. Was it worth it? Yes. And had I had the luxury of figuring out what I would do otherwise, as above, well, I probably couldn't have made good decisions, as I never would have framed the question that way (it was beyond my level of maturity, and more so of my experience.) I got to take my "holiday" AFTER college. But looking back at it, I would have loved to have traveled more, learned another language, built houses in the Third World, met different people than I did at college, in short, given myself opportunities for other kinds of insight that were closed to me at the time.</p>
<p>As Cangel says, the freedom of free college education is not to be sneered at, if you can handle such a priceless opportunity responsibly. </p>
<p>Sigh. My d. is "lucky" that we are "poor", and don't feel or act like we are. And thus far she is making great choices.</p>
<p>That's a very good point, mini, but I don't really know what I'd do either. Generally, I'd like to do research if I can, and certainly travel, but otherwise... Thanks in general for all of the (helpful and sympathetic) responses, which is a bit of a rarity for a post that doesn't ask any real questions.</p>
<p>I don't believe I'm stereotyping unfairly when I say that the parents on here are very atypical when it comes to financing their children's educations. I appreciate the advice, 1536, but the maximum I can expect to pay back comfortably after grad school deferals is about $40000, and I can't just send my parents a bill for over a hundred grand, so it just doesn't look like it's going to happen.</p>
<p>I really do appreciate the thoughts and advice, particularly cangel, vig, and mini.</p>
<p>All great advice here. I would like to add that before you give up that you look for outside scholarships. I've noticed that a lot of people on this board tend to forget that there are a TON of outside scholarships available for just about anything imaginable. Granted, it takes work to find them, but if it is important then I'm sure you'd be willing to put in the work.</p>
<p>It's easy to blame the parents. Yes, they should have thought of all of this earlier. But having seen this occur,year and year out with the nicest families, it really is pretty typical. Not right, but typical. My son has a close friend who is at NYU. And the parents cannot pay the tuition. They encouraged him to apply everywhere, anywere without regard to cost. They did not get any financial aid. They still supported the NYU decision, refusing to believe that something would not work out. Grandpa sent a check for $10K and that with some savings, summer money and loans did get him through the first term, and before you knew it, the second semester tuition payment was due. In the mean time, grandpa is getting recalcitrant about contributing any more--he figured the $10k was generous and cannot conceive of college costing $50k a year. And though he had mentioned he would help out with college and is proud of grandson, he is thinking more along the lines of a few hundere a year, not tens of thousands. The boy is communting this term, working, and they have taken out large loans. He may take off next year to earn some money and get through bit by bit.</p>
<p>BirdofPrey,
I think you are wrong to blame your parents. My husband and I will help our son get to the college of his dreams, but we also expect him to take out a reasonable amount of loans (up to $20,000 total) to help pay for his dream school. It is, after all, his life.</p>
<p>We probably are similar to your parents: middle class, but not wealthy. I took out loans and worked a job to help pay for my own education. I also went through grad school with fellowships (including one that required me to join the military), jobs, and help from my husband. My parents paid nothing for grad school for me.</p>
<p>I think that you are idealizing the parents here and also are shirking responsibility for your own life. From what you have posted, your parents are willing to offer you some financial help for college, which is gracious on their part. They don't have to go into debt to pay for Columbia any more than they should go into debt to get you your dream car. If Columbia is your dream, however, and you get an acceptance, you should find a way to go there.</p>
<p>Where I think that your parents let you down was not being up front with you about exactly how much they were willing to contribute to your college. They should have set those boundaries early, and let you make your decisions based on that. </p>
<p>Also -- have you a Columbia acceptance in hand yet? If not, I suggest that you get your acceptance and financial aid package first before worrying about a problem that may not really exist. If you get an acceptance, but your parents aren't willing to pay what would be required, see if you can earn money by working jobs or by taking out loans or by asking your parents to take out loans that you promise to repay.</p>