<p>I would say that this is not a way to start a law career, unless your goal is a jailhouse lawyer…</p>
<p>I went to NYU back in the early 80’s, when NYC was a lot more dangerous then it is today, and my brother graduated from Columbia in 1980, when the area around Columbia was not particularly great, and while there was crime, most of it was in things like robberies, stuff stolen out of purses, and so forth, there wasn’t a great deal of violent crime. </p>
<p>If you go to an urban school, you have to learn some street smarts, it is true, but you also benefit from the environment, of having so much at your finger tips. I seem to recall from my brief visit there that the University of Chicago was not in a great area (this is c 1980, so what it is like today I can’t say), but again the opportunities going to schools like that are immense. Yes, there are risks, there was a shooting in an NYU dorm when an Asian cultural group was having a dance, and some Chinatown gang members got into a shootout (they were not NYU students). </p>
<p>Ironically, in the case of the last shooting,the perp was a student but was not from the big bad old city, according to the report he was from Virginia. Kind of gives pause to those who said that the virginia tech shooting could have been prevented if students were armed; maybe so, but what of students shooting each other, in what might be a drunken brawl with some split lips and black eyes turns into a shootout…</p>
<p>The other thing to keep in mind is that in rural and suburban campuses while they may be in ‘safe’ areas, they aren’t immune. Some of the rural schools may be located in poorer regions, and a tempting target to locals to try and do a smash and grab, and things like rapes are not unknown on suburban and rural campuses, or kidnapping and murder.</p>
<p>I think that people hear urban and assume the worst. I know some young people where I work who went to U of P, both women and men, and they said that while the area wasn’t the greatest, if you had half an ounce of common sense, you would be okay, that much of the crime occurred when kids didn’t use their heads, like they were out late at night, alone or drunk, or went to bars and such in iffy areas around the campus and got into trouble (their words, not mine). I have also spoken to people who went to schools in some more rural areas or college towns, and had problems with locals, who often resented the college kids and had problems with being harassed, both by townspeople and cops, some assaults, and vandalism…so it all depends on where you go.</p>
<p>For the smart alec who asked what vibrant is, it means going to a campus where there are things to do other then go to frat parties and do drugs and get drunk, or attending the big football game, it means having cultural and other things right there, meeting different people, seeing plays, different kinds of music and so forth. I had to laugh one time when a fellow music parent, who was from a fairly large town in Virginia, asking me if we ever get musicians like a certain fairly well known violinist playing in NYC, and I had to laugh, because on any given night there would probably be 4 or 5 violinists playing who were at an even higher level, and so many musical performances at a high level in all forms of music it is hard to list them…that is vibrant. Yep, city areas have risks to them, but I would also point out that those risks are not necessarily that great, and the rewards are tremendous, it is all about what a person wants to do and what they need.</p>
<p>Obviously, I meant “third year”!</p>
<p>MuppetMom-Curtis has a bunch of brownstones clustered around the school itself, so they know where everyone is and all are withing close walking distance. It’s such a long shot- and it’s not referring to your D’s talent, but rather if they decide they indeed DO have an opening in her major in the particular year- that I wouldn’t even worry about it until the acceptance letter is in hand. You’ll have plenty of time after you come out of the dead faint to worry about a place for her to live!!</p>
<p>
except street smarts don’t come into play if you are attending a movie that is for all intents on the college campus and people start shooting.
That is the crux of the Penn crime problem, when serious things like this happen that can’t be chalked up to students taking unnecessary risks.
I am very surprised that Penn did not go into alert mode, as are Penn students. I mean when there are helicopters circling 40th and Walnut, what else does it take?</p>
<p>My d goes to Penn as well and lives in the same building as MoWC’s son. I was alarmed to read about the shooting via the Daily Pennsylvanian update - and a little relieved when they reported that the two victims were male and were being treated for their wounds - that it wasnt fatal. What I missed was that the shooter was not apprehended. I just read that part of the story this morning and can’t understand why Penn didn’t send out an emergency alert. There has been so much publicity about their alert system - even a test scheduled recently. The DP states that the university didnt feel the shooter was a threat since it was a robbery - WHAT? Someone who just fired a gun into a theater lobby is not a threat?</p>
<p>Someone who has already shot two people in a crowded theater is not considered a danger to others? The mind boggles.</p>
<p>Muppet Mom, if you would like to PM me, I would be happy to share a wonderful apt building near Curtis, where my daughter subletted this summer. My daughter graduated in May and started a job in Center City in June. (a happy mom here, but so worried about living in Philly).
It was a wonderful experience. Curtis is within block of Rittenhouse Sq, pricey, but lovely area.
D has many classmates in grad school, or working in Philly, and they all love it.</p>
<p>Couple of points:</p>
<ol>
<li> As MOWC says, the movie theater here is basically part of the Penn campus. On the other hand, it’s been around for at least 10 years, and until now the worst crime I’ve ever associated with it is the prices that the organic supermarket in the same complex charges. This wasn’t an every day, every month, every year, or even every decade occurrence.</li>
</ol>
<p>It’s a really nice movie theater. I’ve been there lots of times, with kids or with friends. It IS scary that there was a shootout in the lobby.</p>
<ol>
<li> Why was there a shootout in the lobby? Reading between the lines, it looks like an off-duty cop from Harrisburg was there, had his gun with him, and decided to have a shoot-out in the lobby. Of course, it wouldn’t have been much of a shoot-out if the criminal didn’t have a gun, too, but there’s no indication that the criminal intended to fire indiscriminately into a crowd of moviegoers. He wasn’t a mugger; he was robbing the box office.</li>
</ol>
<p>Gun advocates and the ARA say there will be fewer crimes if criminals think that the citizens around them may be armed. Perhaps that’s true. But it’s also clearly true that a LOT more people get shot when the citizens pull out their guns.</p>
<ol>
<li> Here’s a big surprise: Local news was reporting last night that the OTHER shooting – Temple law student vs. ex-Villanova lacrosse captain – was the continuation of a dispute about a particular young woman’s affections. Why was Temple law student carrying a gun while clubbing in Center City? I don’t know, ask the ARA. Probably trying to deter crime, right?</li>
</ol>
<p>Agree, JHS, but there have been a lot of incidents (brawls- no guns, but I think knives) at that McDonald’s that is right there, too. I think those were the local youth gangs.</p>
<p>I think musicprnt makes a good point about tensions between college students & locals. Here in Connecticut (just in past year) I can quickly think of three tragic killlings that fit this bill: Wesleyan student shot in campus book store (May); Annie Le @Yale; Fall stabbing of UConn football player.</p>
<p>^^^^Um, the Wesleyan student, tragically, was shot by a resident of Massachusetts whom she had met years before, as a summer school student at NYU – not Wesleyan.</p>
<p>However, as to your larger point, yes, tensions exist between some locals (mainly older residents who dislike paying property taxes while high schools, middle schools, nursing homes and public housing occupy prime, tax-exempt locations) and, Wesleyan.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I feel compelled to say a word in Columbia’s defense. New York City actually has a lower crime rate than the national average for ALL communities (measuring major crimes, i.e., murder, rape, robbery, aggravated assault, burglary, and motor vehicle theft), and the second-lowest among major cities after Honolulu. NYC is on the whole safer than Madison, WI; Lawrence, KS; Tempe, AZ; Austin, TX; Lexington, KY; Raleigh, NC; San Diego, CA; Eugene, OR; Seattle, WA; Los Angeles; Tuscaloosa, AL; Gainesville, FL; Providence, RI; Boston, MA; Berkeley, CA; Durham, NC; San Francisco; Winston-Salem, NC; Syracuse, NY; South Bend, IN; Pittsburgh, PA; Rochester, NY; Knoxville, TN; Columbus, OH; or Minneapolis, MN, among many other college/university towns, not to mention the true high crime capitals like Philadelphia, Atlanta, DC, Baltimore, Cleveland, New Orleans, Detroit, Oakland, and St. Louis. </p>
<p>Within NYC, Columbia’s neighborhood of Morningside Heights has one of the lowest crime rates of any community, as this map indicates:</p>
<p>[Morningside</a> Heights: Manhattan Crime Rate Map](<a href=“http://www.morningside-heights.net/crime.htm]Morningside”>Morningside Heights: Manhattan Crime Rate Map)</p>
<p>This was not always the case, of course. In the 1970s, NYC was crime-ridden, and the area around Columbia was very bad. Columbia is still dogged by those negative perceptions. But the contemporary reality is much different.</p>
<p>JHS, 'Of course, it wouldn’t have been much of a shoot-out if the criminal didn’t have a gun, too, but there’s no indication that the criminal intended to fire indiscriminately into a crowd of moviegoers. He wasn’t a mugger; he was robbing the box office."</p>
<p>No indication that the criminal intended to fire indiscriminately??? M,m,m,m, he was there in crowded lobby at the 7pm show, and exactly how does a bystander know what the “criminal’s” intention would be? Wonder what you would have assumed?</p>
<p>" He wasn’t a mugger"… he was “just” robbing the box office…huh?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I take from this that (1) the robber did not do anything in the lobby, on the way in or the way out, and (2) there’s about a 90% likelihood that the intervening police officer started the gun battle, because if the robber had done it you had better believe that the police would not characterize the situation as “unclear”. Also, I note that the police went to some lengths to make certain the press knew that the other victim was shot by the robber, which means that someone other than the robber was doing a meaningful share of the shooting.</p>
<p>I’m not trying to defend robbing a movie theater box office at gunpoint at 7 pm on a Friday evening. Nevertheless: </p>
<p>– There are some pretty important differences between criminals who are trying to get some money quickly and efficiently, and criminals whose main purpose is to terrorize others and aggrandize themselves. The former rarely hurt other people; for the latter, that’s the point.</p>
<p>– I question whether a well-trained police officer would have started a gun battle in a place that was crowded with bystanders, especially if the criminal hadn’t hurt anyone yet. If the off-duty cop hadn’t pulled his gun and tried to stop the robbery, the situation would be almost exactly the same as it is now – the police would be looking for a robber who got away. The difference would be that there would be two fewer people in the hospital, and dozens fewer legitimately frightened people.</p>
<p>I’m glad I get Twitter feed from Daily Penn. It let me know about this immediately and I could check on my son (once he put down his Happy Hour drink and responded to my text message…
)</p>
<p>^ yes, but isn’t that what Penn said they would do with their “alert” system?
Have they made a statement why this incident did not meet the bar to trigger the system?</p>
<p>Thanks, SouthJerseyChessMom, I will PM you if we somehow manage to be honored with an acceptance. In the mean time…I am prevented from doing anything that might jinx the audition process in anyway. My D won’t even buy a sweatshirt from the schools she is interested in for fear for jinxing herself. We recently came across an adorable owl teapot that she loved and bought on the spot. After she used it a few days I refered to it as the “good luck” owl (mascot of another favorite but long shot school). The poor owl is now sitting in the cupboard. She even didn’t know it was the mascot. </p>
<p>I am wondering why Penn didn’t use the warning system also. And, if Curtis has one or if they can tap into Penn’s.</p>
<p>^^^completely understand. I didn’t know if she had been admitted. Hope it’s all good news.</p>
<p>A close look at crime on campus finds most crime committed by attending students. A quick survey of S1 and his friends from a broad range of schools found most thefts occurred in dorms and at parties. Most assault was student against student. There is more to campus safety than the neighborhood.</p>