Safeties for not-quite-Ivy student

<p>Basic profile: I'm a rising junior. 2270 SAT (hopefully will improve a little). GPA is hard to say because I go to a boarding school uses a really weird grading system, but I've made honor roll every semester and am overall a very good student. I'll have taken 7 AP exams by application time. (So far, I've taken 2 and got a 5 on each.) I plan to major in Russian and political science, so I don't want a science/technical school.
Potential hooks: I'm a white girl from an upper-middle class family, so there's nothing there. But I'm very good at creative writing (have won awards, plan to enter more contests) and I'm a section editor of my school's arts/culture magazine and have a board position on my school's newspaper (which has won national awards.)</p>

<p>Right now, I see the Ivies, etc. as definitely a reach but the schools right below them as more feasible. Tentatively, I'm considering my reaches and matches as follows:
REACHES
Columbia
U Penn
U Chicago
Brown
Stanford
Duke
Yale</p>

<p>MATCHES
Georgetown? (maybe a reach)
Carnegie Mellon
William and Mary
Johns Hopkins
Middlebury
USC
Barnard
UC Berkeley</p>

<p>SAFETIES
American
Bard
George Washington?
Fordham
Reed?
And what else?</p>

<p>I’d say your list looks very good. Time to start visits to winnow down.</p>

<p>What State are you from?</p>

<p>Your list looks fine (although I’d probably move Georgetown to a reach and Reed to a match). I agree with the above comment, time to pare down the list a bit. Just so you know, Fordham has non binding Early Action so if you get your application in early you should hear back by the end of December.</p>

<p>* I’m a white girl from an upper-middle class family*</p>

<p>What are your parents saying about how much they’ll pay each year? If you don’t know, ask them. For a school to be a safety, you need to be sure that your costs are covered.</p>

<p>I agree w/last 2 posts. Move Reed up a notch. Do have that money talk.</p>

<p>What about your state flagship as a safety (or its honors college as a match)?
If money is really not an issue, then the University of Maryland might be another good DC-area safety … although I think I’d prefer AU (closer in to DC, nicer surroundings).</p>

<p>Hopkins is not a match for you or anyone. Their admitted profile is on par or above those of the ivies.</p>

<p>Might look at Holy Cross-smaller version of Georgetown but easier to get into.</p>

<p>Wesleyan and Pomona each might be good fit, overall. Bucknell (match), Villanova (safety)? Tufts?</p>

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<p>No way is that true based on our Naviance. Use your Naviance to assess your chances. Don’t relay on chances threads here. </p>

<p>I agree with your assessment on Hopkins and most of the others. Overall it’s a nice list. Unless you’re from California, forget about Berkeley. </p>

<p>Reed is not so predictable. I would say it’s highly likely, and if you convince them you mean it, you’d be in. It’s a great school for the intellectual. </p>

<p>Bard is a little less rigorous than the others on your list. Is that really what you want? It’s hard to reconcile with Reed. I mean it’s hard to see liking both Reed and Bard. </p>

<p>Make sure you meet the Fordham early action deadline. If you get in, it’s a safety, if not, it isn’t. </p>

<p>Overall, it’s a very nice list. Nice job.</p>

<p>^limited sample size to say the least. You have no inkling of what Hopkins looks for nor can you offer any sort of chances to the above poster. I’ve done enough interviews and have enough friends in admissions to know better.</p>

<p>If you go to a boarding school, you should have an outstanding college counselor. Have you asked him or her for advice?</p>

<p>American University is not a safety for anyone. It considers “level of applicant’s interest” to be “very important”. “Level of applicant’s interest” is often used by universities that do not want to be used as safeties by students who are unlikely to attend.</p>

<p>[American</a> University Admissions Information - CollegeData College Profile](<a href=“http://www.collegedata.com/cs/data/college/college_pg02_tmpl.jhtml?schoolId=475]American”>http://www.collegedata.com/cs/data/college/college_pg02_tmpl.jhtml?schoolId=475)</p>

<p>Perhaps most important is to check the net price calculator on each school to see if it is affordable with just need-based aid. If not, check for large enough merit scholarships. If there is no way you can afford it, do not bother applying. Remember that safeties must be certainly affordable as well as certain for admission.</p>

<p>USNWR assigns an equal “student selectivity rank” to Hopkins and Cornell (using 2011 data). A few years ago (2009), one poster attempted to describe and reverse engineer their formula. At that time, using that formula, he ranked Hopkins a bit lower than Cornell (least selective of the Ivies).
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/687793-selectivity-ranking-national-us-lacs-combined-usnews-method.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/687793-selectivity-ranking-national-us-lacs-combined-usnews-method.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>I think it’s reasonable to say that in the recent past, JHU has been about as selective as Berkeley, Middlebury, or USC (although self-selection factors may come into play that aren’t perfectly reflected in the USNWR formula.) Where you draw the line between low reach and high match is a matter of speculation. I suppose it depends not only on the applicant’s stats but also on your tolerance for risk.</p>

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<p>I agree. If the OP were only applying to JH and assuming admittance, that would be a huge mistake, but that’s not the case. It’s a match - meaning a greater likelihood than a reach, but certainly not a safety. One may, or may not, get in. Does it really matter if it’s a low reach or a high match? Only in the eyes of “don’t put ‘my’ school so low” beholders IMO. I think there’s a good chance the OP would be admitted there - but not to the level of being a safety. It’s a high match.</p>

<p>theconnoisseur: Massachusetts. UMass Amherst probably will be one of my safeties as well.
happy1: Good point about Georgetown and Reed- I was unsure about those two, and you’re probably right.
mom2collegekids: Embarrassingly, we haven’t really had a talk about this yet. Right now, they’ve said that I shouldn’t take cost into consideration, but it might become an issue as we come closer to the admissions process (I’m a rising junior now.)
Regarding Holy Cross and Tufts: I’m from MA, and would really like to go to school somewhere else, since I’ve lived here all my life. They’re both great schools, I’m sure, but not the schools for me.
Regarding Hopkins: I definitely realize that it’s much closer to a reach than a safety.
Regarding Bard: I actually don’t know that much about it, but liked it so far. I’ll look into it more.
whenhen: We don’t begin college counseling until the middle of junior year at my school, but maybe I’ll try to get into contact with someone.</p>

<p>Thank you so much for your help, everyone! I really appreciate it!</p>

<p>Just so you know, UMASS Amherst is a trivial application. If you apply early anything on the common application, just submit the UMASS application at the same time. You will be admitted and December. It is most definitely a safety.</p>

<p>“I think it’s reasonable to say that in the recent past, JHU has been about as selective as Berkeley, Middlebury, or USC (although self-selection factors may come into play that aren’t perfectly reflected in the USNWR formula.)”</p>

<p>Sorry but not reasonable in the least. Take a look at the most recent USC admissions data:</p>

<p>[Freshman</a> Profile - USC Undergraduate Admission](<a href=“http://www.usc.edu/admission/undergraduate/apply/fresh_profiles.html]Freshman”>http://www.usc.edu/admission/undergraduate/apply/fresh_profiles.html)</p>

<p>Acceptance rate is 20%, Admit ACT is 30-33, Admit SAT Range is 2030 – 2250</p>

<p>Compare this to Johns Hopkins:</p>

<p>Acceptance rate: 17%, Admitted ACT Range: 32-35, Admitted SAT Range: 2110-2300</p>

<p><a href=“http://apply.jhu.edu/facts/facts.html?main[/url]”>http://apply.jhu.edu/facts/facts.html?main&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Hopkins is ostensibly more selective - nothing subjective about it. The ACT Range is telling. Hopkins’ ENROLLED freshman class (in its most recent CDS not linked above) has higher stats than USC’s AND Berkeley’s ADMITTED class.</p>

<p>The difference in admissions statistics between Hopkins and Berkeley is even more significant (especially when you include Berkeley’s spring admits - something most of its posters are hesitant to do - the same applies to 'SC as well).</p>

<p>Cornell also had lower test scores than Hopkins for the most recent cycle when compared to Hopkins enrolled class with an ACT range of 30-34 and higher SATs:</p>

<p><a href=“http://dpb.cornell.edu/documents/1000001.pdf[/url]”>http://dpb.cornell.edu/documents/1000001.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>I suggest you and other posters stick to schools and admissions policies you actually know something about instead of speculative conjecture at best.</p>

<p>If we were to argue the selectivity differences between Hopkins and Cornell, then we’d have a true argument. The differences are not as large and one sided as Hopkins compared to the other 'SC and Berkeley above.</p>

<p>^I agree with Blah about Hopkins. </p>

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<p>This is an incredibly diverse list, which is not a bad thing, but are you planning to apply to all of these schools? </p>

<p>Ideally, you only need one or two safeties, especially if you play the EA/ED round well. I suggest that you look at the sticky thread at the top of this forum. If the safety accepts you and is financially viable, you should be able to apply freely to reaches in the RD round. </p>

<p>I wouldn’t anticipate getting much aid from Fordham, although I could be wrong. Northeastern is becoming more competitive as of late, but you still should be safe. They give a bit of merit aid, although you may not like the Co-op program. </p>

<p>Unfortunately, Reed is not a safety. For political science and international relations, I would also assume American and GWU are more competitive than usual. Perhaps you could consider George Mason, which is outside of DC and strong in that area. UMCP might be good as well.</p>

<p>I second the suggestion to forget about Cal, which would be quite expensive for an OOS student. Your stats and ECs are convincing, but most of your matches are more selective than you may think. W&M is a match, as is Barnard, but the others have acceptance rates in the 15-25% rate. Perhaps you consider EA or ED at one of these. Gtown, for instance, does not reject students in the EA round (only deferrals).</p>

<p>I wish you the best of luck!</p>

<p>The figures Blah cites for JHU and USC look pretty close to me. The SAT ranges cited by USNWR (based on data from a year earlier) are even closer. </p>

<p>Make what you will of a 3-pt spread in admit rates. These numbers change from year to year, which is one reason schools go up and down a bit in the rankings. Most of the OP’s “match” group are close enough (especially with holistic admissions) that a student admitted to any one could very well be rejected from one or more of the others. A difference in essays, LORs and ECs could wind up making a bigger difference than that 3-point gap in admit rates, or last year’s 50-pt. gap in combined SAT scores. This is one reason to pare down the number of applications enough to focus on preparing them well.</p>