Safety School Quandry

Parents Forum
241

<p>here is a very good post by carolyn setting out some considerations for HC's. </p>

<hr>

<p>You might want to check out the listing of schools which are members of the National Collegiate Honors College Council: <a href="http://www.nchchonors.org/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.nchchonors.org/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Keep in mind, however, that all honors colleges are not created equally. Some schools offer more substantial programs than others. So, it pays to do your research and ask a lot of questions, both of the program and of current students. Specifically, I'd look for programs which: </p>

<ul>
<li><p>Offer significant course opportunities across all four years of study that are relevant to all undergraduate majors.</p></li>
<li><p>Require an honors thesis or project.</p></li>
<li><p>Provide residential opportunities for honors program participants to live together in a community setting.</p></li>
<li><p>Require a separate application for admission to the Honors College in addition to the application for general admission to the larger university.</p></li>
<li><p>Have its own Dean, operating and staff budget, and considerable control over its policies, admissions, curriculum and faculty selection. </p></li>
</ul>

<p>Good luck with your son's college search!</p>

<hr>

<p>Additionally here is one thread that discusses the topic. There are others.</p>

<p><a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=248417&highlight=%22honor%27s+colleges%22%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=248417&highlight=&#37;22honor%27s+colleges%22&lt;/a> .</p>

242

<p>and here's an old,old one by me-saying much the same thing and another thread to peruse. </p>

<hr>

<p>I always like to start these things with "this is just the opinion of a parent who is, like you ,gathering information and not pretending to be an expert". LOL. Maybe it will keep me from getting flamed someday.I'd look for Honor's Colleges instead of Honor's Programs.The differences appear to be quite stark in some instances.Honor's Colleges at medium size to large public universities appear to have most ,if not all, of the following:</p>

<p>designated housing</p>

<p>separate building for classrooms</p>

<p>separate dean</p>

<p>specific academic requirements different from regular undergrad</p>

<p>specific service requirements to the school/community</p>

<p>surprisingly higher admissions standards (Barksdale at Ole Miss is 1300+/3.8 or so mean)</p>

<p>seminar type inter-disciplinary classes</p>

<p>special advisement</p>

<p>special perks-(registering for classes,etc)</p>

<p>special access to study areas, computer labs ( 24 hour and/or Honor's only) </p>

<p>specific scholarships,stipends,grants available for research, semester or year abroad</p>

<p>My personal opinion is that if a student has the stats required to attend a top 30-50 Uni, or a top 30-50 LAC AND they have a strong desire for the social life, regional prestige, diverse course offerings a flagship state university can offer,then these Honor's Colleges should be considered. My personal hero has one such school on her list, and asked me the other day,"Dad,what if I get to the end of this and my safety (financial safety, stat match/safety, out of state medium sized flagship uni with thriving HC) is my number one school?" They do have their appeal, don't they?</p>

<p><a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=4256&highlight=%22honor%27s+college%22%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=4256&highlight=&#37;22honor%27s+college%22&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>I am aware of Honor's Colleges at several southern flagships that appear to be particularly well run and well endowed. The University of Mississippi, the University of Arkansas, and the University of South Carolina. As far as Honor's Programs ,Plan 2 at the University of Texas is considered by many to be as fine an education as can be achieved anywhere. The conundrum may only be solved after looking at the offers from D's Honor College choice, and her LAC choices as ,without scholarships, the out-of-state state school may be more costly than some top LAC's that award merit aid. Then again ,that will probably only make it a more difficult choice. Great. Just what we needed.</p>

<hr>

<p><a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=4256&highlight=%22honor%27s+college%22%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=4256&highlight=%22honor%27s+college%22&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

243

<p>I do not know how Penn State Honors is viewed outside of Pennsylvania, but I do know that it is very highly regarded within PA. I know a large number (>10 right off the bat) of kids who have gone on to selective law schools from there, and top law firms in PA have Penn State graduates on their employee rolls. Here in NY, the kids I know who graduated from Penn State have gone on to great jobs and programs, with those kids in Honors doing particularly well (of course they were top candidates to begin with to get into Honors).<br>
Although I have heard great things in general about Pitt, those who went through the program that I personally know did not feel that they got as many "extras" as they could have being in the Honors program. They did do well after graduating, but again these are great kids going into the program. They seemed to feel that they would have done as well going into Pitt as a regular student and getting the grades they got.</p>

<p>I find that if a school offers courses at the level needed for a student, it isn't that important if there is an Honors college other than for the amenities within the program. Another school, Indiana U of Pa, which has a wonderful Honors program packed with amenities, unlike Pitt or Penn State is not a school that would have courses that someone who is PHD bound for a competitive program, or wants to do go to a research institute for an MD, or a top law school . Not to say that a top student would not be able to do these things, but you just do get a large number kids bound in that direction, and some of the courses reflect this. I guess this is the sort of college Mark123 is referring to, Curmudgeon. But I don't know how much of a impact that the Honors PRogram in such a school would make on top student looking for rigorous preparation. I would say a school like Pitt or Penn State would easily have the courses someone like your daughter would want, and getting internships and research opportunities are available for motivated students there. Indiana U of Pa? Don't know if that would be a choice for someone like her. It would make me pause. And that is without considering the Honors PRograms in any of those schools.</p>

244

<p>I have recently visited the Barksdale Honors College at Univ. of Mississippi. Currently it is underfunded and not well coordinated with the rest of the univ., especially re: international relations/ int"l business. The Yale guide is outdated.</p>

245

<p>Penn State U. may have changed in the past few years as a result of additional funding and other factors. During the 1990s and 2000 the honors program literature from PSU specifically sought engineering and math majors, which is great for patent law but not for the usual pre-law background.</p>

246

<p>Again the main benefit of an honors program/college is to avoid large lecture classes in the first two years of study; while being taught by profs, rather than TAs. Of course as these programs develop into colleges, there are substantially increased benefits. But the main concern is financial and administration support.</p>

247

<p>There has been substantial development in the past several years of honors programs and colleges. Additionally there has been a change in the types of students most eagerly sought by most of the ivies,resulting in a slight reversal of roles between the two.</p>

248

<p>After several hours with the Dean, I have a very different view of Barksdale at Ole Miss, and its funding. . After the death of Sally the magnificent funding provided by Jim Barksdale will bring the SMBHC to even greater heights.</p>

249

<p>Be careful of generalized advice approving of any honors program/college , such as that given by crudmugen; he is wrong to do so without specific needs. I am well acquainted with those colleges.</p>

250

<p>And you can trust him on that , just like on Shreyer's. ;) LOL. My data is current. I don't care what the 80's and 90's were like. Neither does your kid.</p>

251

<p>The additional Barksdale funding must have come quite recently; it is in direct contrast to university wide cuts which even ended the int"l business program.</p>

252

<p>and it's curmudgeon, not "crudmugen". </p>

<p>You still haven't shared have you? Sally passed away about two years ago, and then the school was renamed after her.</p>

253

<p>To read some of these posts, one would think that there is only one way to get into a good grad school! I would disagree with that assumption. Grads of my small, private, narrowly-focused, limited academic opportunities, extremely challenging alma mater are incredibly successful in gaining admission to top graduate schools. And when my daughter, who wants to be an orthodontist, researched the undergrad colleges of dental school students at top programs, she found that they graduated from just about any type of school you could think of. </p>

<p>HCs are great for some. LACs are great for some. Ivies are great for some. The local party U is great for some. There have been Rhodes Scholars from a university in my state that is far from elite. If a student makes the most of the opportunities that are available at just about any school, he/she will be "successful." </p>

<p>I would have never become the person I am today had I attended the HC at our flagship U (it is very well respected). I needed what my school gave me. My daughter would run screaming FROM my alma mater! Her friends would never look outside the state & she would never look in the state. To each her own --- the hard part is figuring out what "her own" actually is. </p>

<p>And while I would not want to make a decision purely based on finances, sometimes it is necessary to do so. If it isn't a financial hardship to fork out the money, then I think passing up the scholarship makes sense --- assuming the student REALLY prefers the more expensive option. If finances are an issue & the student likes the scholarship-offering school --- or if the student really doesn't have a preference for that more expensive school over the scholarship-offering school --- I would opt for saving the bucks. Grad schools are expensive! </p>

<p>Take all of our advice & use it to figure out what makes sense for you and yours. Just remember that no one of us has the answer for you ... only YOU have that!</p>

254

<p>The point is that one has to keep in constant contact with universities. Who would have expected the budget cuts at UGa., one of the best. I strongly recommend visiting Ole Miss before biting on crudmudgeon"s advice,as things were not good in august 2006. Even if there was substantial funding given in the last few months, which i doubt, it could not bring Ole Miss up to the level of most honors colleges.</p>

255

<p>kelsmom: Amen!</p>

256

<p>Much of my focus re: honors does not limit a student solely to his or her in-state honors option. Thus the suggestion re: Penn State, which is an outstanding school for the right person.</p>

257

<p>"crudmudgeon"s" (what's up with this ?Are we in third grade? LOL) advice</p>

<p>But I didn't give any advice, did I? I also never claimed to be an expert, unlike what you appear to be doing. I just said I liked it. More importantly that my D liked it. I am just a parent trying to get by. </p>

<p>I still think it is worth a look . You will posts by me on this forum decrying its lack of scholarships. Funding could certainly help there. ;)</p>

<p>Dean Sullivan Gonzalez is one heckuva guy. If you had met him , you would have been impressed . His big complaint was in keeping the best prof's away from the hot shot Ivy's and others. I guess you could say funding could help there also. ;)</p>

<p>It wasn't at the top of my HC list but it was at the top of my D's. I liked Arkansas (now we are talking $) , Alabama, Clemson especially National Scholars, and McNair at South Carolina. All schools way too big for her. And I love plan II and the HTC. My D applied the HC at Texas Tech spoken of on this forum by Lonestardad . She was interested in a specific program.</p>

<p>So, as I said before, I'm a fan of HC's. I still haven't heard any defense of the positions taken by Mark as to LAC's.</p>

258

<p>There are additional special concerns re: Ole Miss"s Int"l Honors program which was so highly tauted by a Yale student"s guide. Visit the school before considering it.</p>

259

<p>Arkansas is very well funded and actively seeks non-residents. Beautiful campus, very religious and an interesting culture. South Carolina lacks many basic honors benefits, but does have good merit aid-even for non-residents.But look very carefully because many benefits are not there or are promised in the future.</p>

260

<p>
[quote]
Arkansas is very well funded and actively seeks non-residents.

[/quote]
On that we can agree. Wal-Mart money has been very sweet. A good friend's son is there now and they are begging him to do funded study abroad.</p>