SAT 2 chemistry

Parents Forum
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<p>DS came home last week asking whether he should take the SAT 2 in chemistry this year. He is a 10th grader, and I had no idea. This prompted a mini-panic about the college admissions process looming, and I did some quick research and then started a thread here which has been extremely helpful. I now have a much better handle on the process and a line on two very appealing schools, a potential safety and a potential match, depending on how DS's SAT scores are.</p>

<p>DS is taking chemistry this year, and his teacher suggested that he take the SAT II. I emailed the teacher to find out exactly what the situation was, and he was very enthusiastic about DS and thought he would do well on the SAT 2 with some preparation. There are some content areas on the exam which are not covered in the course. This is the highest-level 10th grade science course, leading to AP physics next year and another AP science senior year. The course is not designated "honors" - no honors chemistry courses are offered - but Regents-level. There is an AP chemistry course, which DS may take, but no chance to take it until senior year. </p>

<p>I was looking in CC and on Amazon for information on study guides - if anyone has a recommendation, I'd be grateful. But I came across an old thread, from 2005, in which people posted that the chemistry exam was harder than the others and is best taken after an AP course. I am wondering whether he should take it. The GC said that he would take the SAT 2 American history exam next year, after AP-USH. If he does not take the chemistry test in June, then I imagine he could take the physics test next year, or the math test.</p>

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<p>My daughter is currently a junior and she took the SAT 2 in chemistry last year after taking honors chem. She got a score in the high 700’s without much prep- only studying for her normal tests plus the Regents. The teacher encouraged the kids to take the test and the ones who chose to do so did well. I do not see the harm in taking it because you don’t have to use it, but of course that’s just my opinion. She also took the bio SAT in 9th grade after taking honors bio and had the same results. I am not entirely convinced that AP level classes are necessary for some of the subject tests, but of course they would help. Good luck!! I want to add that in her chem class they used the Barron’s SAT subject test book as part of their class. </p>

<p>She is taking the subject test in Spanish in June because we have a CB credit and she may take physics as well ( she is currently in AP for both). </p>

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<p>Don’t take the SATII unless you have taken or are almost finished with the SATII. Yes, the SATII chem is easy and may not require AP, but you are still at a disadvantage compared to people who have taken the harder course. </p>

<p>Most schools only require two SATII exams, one of which is usually math SATII (incredibly easy with no prep required.) If you are going to be a science/engineering major, I would recommend physics and math SATIIs since you will have completed AP physics. If a humanities major, it makes sense to do SATII American History and SATII math. I don’t know much about the SATII American history, but I assume that APUSH is good preparation for it.</p>

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<p>Unless he has an aptitude for Chem and the time to prep, I wouldn’t recommend taking the Subject test. I remember D1 being told to take the Chem Subject test at the end of Honors Chem in 9th grade. She got an OK but not great score, that’s when I realized that we needed to become proactive about college stuff and not rely on what the HS told us.</p>

<p>He only needs 2 Subject tests, there’s going to be plenty of time for him to do that at the end of jr year. Many kids take the USH Subject test along with AP USH, and it looks like he’ll be in good shape to take either the Physics or another science Subject test and Math 2 if he takes pre-Calc.</p>

<p>I like the idea of taking Subject tests along with AP classes as the AP exam is more comprehensive, so no extra prep is necessary for the Subject test.</p>

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<p>My son’s HS “guards” most of the science and math APs for senior year so there are not many chances to take the SAT IIs after the AP courses. So he is taking them after the honors classes and so far he had good luck. Not 800’s but above 700. It seems that he is putting something like 10-15 hours of studying from the prep books (Princeton and Barron) the 3 weeks before the test. </p>

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<p>This totally depends on the course. At my daughter’s first high school, kids who took honors chemistry sophomore year were encouraged to take the chem SAT II because all of the material was covered in the course. Those who did take it did very well–there were a couple of kids who scored 800. At her second high school, where her younger brother took honors chemistry, students were told they’d need a little more prep to take the subject test because the material was not all covered in the class.</p>

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<p>btw- the math SAT test isn’t all that easy without prep- son said they were reviewing precalc in his AP class and never did much studying- didn’t get an 800 like he was capable of. Was supposed to retake it but ended up retaking the SAT (long story) and got a 2400. Got an Honors degree in math from a top tier school for math grad schools after that. </p>

<p>The time to take a SAT subject test is when you finish the course, not years later. Postpone the test if more chemistry is planned. Take it if other SAT subject are not likely to be easier for her.</p>

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<p>If he is going to take AP Chem in Junior, he should wait till then. Otherwise, he may try to take the SAT2 Chem this year. If he is not going to take AP Chem next year, he is not likely to learn more in Chemistry before the end of Junior year and that is the latest time to take SAT2 for college application (although you may retake afterward). If he is going to take AP chem in senior, it is too late to take SAT2 at that time for college application. If the score is not good, he can also retake or take other SAT2. Schools will only look for the best scores anyway and you can pick the subject score to submit in most cases (even for Stanford that wants all scores otherwise).</p>

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<p>I’d say it depends on how much content area there is on the SAT II that was not covered in the course, how much time your son has to cover that material, how much your son tends to retain of what he studies, what the chemistry teacher’s idea of “doing well” is, and what your son’s college aspirations are. It also depends on whether your son enjoys, tolerates, or hates standardized tests. It also depends to a certain extent on your son’s endurance and attention level for standardized testing. It also depends on how heavy the workload at the high school is. </p>

<p>If the teacher knows about past student’s performance on the SAT II Chemistry exam, and is assessing your son’s preparation relative to them, then the teacher may be correct that taking the SAT II in Chemistry now is a good idea.</p>

<p>Sometimes on CC you will see the advice that a student should not take the SAT II Chemistry exam until after AP Chemistry. This is entirely dependent on the school’s curriculum. There are schools where the normal chemistry course provides fine preparation for the SAT II. Other schools have used the existence of AP Chemistry to water down the normal course.</p>

<p>My high school chemistry course provided all the background that was needed for the SAT II Chemistry. I still recall the textbook author’s name after all these years: Ernest R. Toon.* I don’t recall the exact title of the book, but Foundations of Chemistry by Ernest R. Toon (and perhaps some co-authors) is available, used, on Amazon starting at $0.57 right now. It is quite readable and covers 100% of what’s needed for the SAT II.</p>

<p>Generally, I think that students should be able to take 3 SAT II’s on a single day. I often think “wimps” when I hear people advising to spread them out. However, some high schools are more tiring than others. If the students are generally sleep-deprived, there might be an advantage to taking one now, and avoiding too much pile-up later.</p>

<p>*In case you are wondering why I still know the name of the text book author quite a few years later: I am not related to Ernest R. Toon. However, about November of the year I was taking chemistry, a test included an extra credit question, “Who is Ernest R. Toon?” The chemistry teacher had a toddler, and had mentioned Sesame Street, so I guessed that he was a Sesame Street character. (Ernie’s full name is surely Ernest R. Toon, right?) We were a relatively unsophisticated lot, and until then, I had never paid any attention to the names of the authors of the books we used. But after that, I did. And it has paid off in the long run.</p>

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<p>Math II is not easy for everyone. My older son got an 800 no studying, my younger son a 600 despite going over the practice tests. He found Literature, US History (after the AP) and Biology (also after the AP) much easier. He was just not fast enough to get through all the problems in time. There are also a couple of things on the Math SAT that aren’t always covered in pre-algebra courses like matrices. As for the OP, I suggest they get a blue practice book of real sample tests and see how he does. But it sounds like the teacher has experiences from other students and probably has a good handle on it. (Of course people’s ideas of “good scores” on CC may be somewhat skewed. I know my kids were aiming for over 700s on three tests - I don’t think any colleges require more than two now.)</p>

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<p>A number of kids in my S’s Honors Chem class sophomore year took the SAT II that spring. (S was supposed to, but he was invited to be in a state track meet instead, so he postponed it until the following fall. He did fine, but I’m sure he would have done better if he had taken it in the spring, when the material was fresh.) The teacher held a few short after-school sessions to go over material covered on the test but not in the course. (They couldn’t have been very long, since most of the kids had to get to sports practices.) S and the one friend of whom I know the score got 760-770. I assume that the others did well, also. I don’t think S did any prep. If he did, it was probably running through one practice test.</p>

<p>I certainly don’t think a good student needs to wait for the AP course. And it is helpful to have one good score in the bank going in to junior year.</p>

<p>The crucial thing is probably what your S’s teacher–or your S-- is willing to do in terms of covering the extra material.</p>

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<p>Thanks for all the information and advice. Waiting until after AP chem is not an option, as he will not have a chance to take it until senior year. The teacher said that DS would have to learn the content that is not covered in class. He is doing very well (98% average) without really trying. He does his work but finds it easy. He likes the idea of getting a test out of the way, and he is very disciplined. </p>

<p>The GC seemed to take it for granted that his other SAT 2 test would be American history at the end of next year, when he will take AP-USH. She said that the content in the course exactly matches the test. He will also be taking AP physics next year, so that is a possibility. And he’s good in math. </p>

<p>I’ve ordered the Barrons book and the blue practice book. We’ll see how he does; if necessary he can take 2 next year.</p>

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<p>Perhaps he could try some practice questions at <a href=“The SAT – SAT Suite | College Board”>The SAT – SAT Suite | College Board; . If there are any released SAT subject chemistry tests, he can try those. Remember that SAT subject tests are for high school level material, not AP level material, although high schools with low quality courses may not prepare students that well for SAT subject tests (the same goes for high schools where A students in AP courses usually score 1 on AP tests).</p>

<p>A caution on the common (not necessarily correct) belief that one should take the AP course before taking the SAT subject test is that the opposite may apply to physics, now that they have split AP physics B into two year-long courses as AP physics 1 and 2. While they presumably cover the various topics in more depth than a normal high school physics course, each only covers some of the topics in a normal high school physics course which are tested in the SAT subject test for physics. So, unless the student taking AP physics 1 and 2 completes both courses before taking the SAT subject test in physics, s/he may do worse than one who just finished regular high school physics. AP physics C also has the same problem with respect to the SAT subject test in physics.</p>

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<p>I agree physics could be a problem. But if the kid is good at math and will be taking AP US history those are the obvious SAT subject tests to take. If he has a good chem result, he won’t even need both good scores. Both my kids did very, very well on the US history SAT just from being in APUSH.</p>

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<p>A very few engineering schools require taking the SAT 2 in physics or chem.</p>

<p>Princeton: <a href=“http://www.princeton.edu/engineering/undergraduate/faq/#faq15”>http://www.princeton.edu/engineering/undergraduate/faq/#faq15&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Some schools want an SAT 2 in science: physics, chem or bio (MIT, CMU depending on what school you will apply to)</p>

<p>So it is important to look ahead to possible schools and possible majors and to lay out a 4 year course and test strategy.</p>

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<p>NYMomof2,
When my oldest son was deciding whether he was going to take a particular SAT II exam, we went to Barnes & Noble and he pulled out the CollegeBoard’s “real” SAT II exam book. He would go through one of those tests and see if he was comfortable, and then decide whether to take the test. :slight_smile: I’m not sure there is much harm in taking it, because he can take others next year and choose what to send to colleges. I’m not sure if anyone has linked this for you yet, but you can get an idea of which colleges even require the subject tests here:
<a href=“SAT Subject Test Requirements and Recommendations - Compass Education Group”>SAT Subject Test Requirements and Recommendations - Compass Education Group;

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<p>better hurry the decision…you only have 12 days to register for the June test. </p>

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<p>+1 to everything QuantMech wrote.</p>

<p>There are so many factors that determine a student’s readiness for the Subject tests. On one end of the spectrum are good students who study diligently for weeks and achieve rather lackluster scores…even after taking the corresponding AP course. On the other end of the spectrum are students who ace the Subject tests with minimal prep despite taking the corresponding course two years prior. The key is to figure out where the student is on the spectrum and then make plans accordingly.</p>

<p>In recent years, I’ve also witnessed the trend of high school kids spreading out the Subject tests, i.e., taking them one at a time. For some students, that’s an overly cautious approach. In my experience, strong students who have modest organizational skills will find a way to post great scores no matter how suboptimal the test-taking circumstances. I took 3 Subject tests on the same weekend of a basketball tournament which took place 150 miles away from my hometown. My roommate for the weekend was our center who snored so loud that no one else wanted to room with him. (Lucky me.) On Saturday morning, my coach dropped me off at a new-to-me testing site and picked me up when I was done. Things worked out fine score-wise, but we didn’t win the tournament. One guy on the team got sick after eating 14 hamburgers at McDonald’s on a dare. Kids. <em>shrug</em></p>

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<p>Thanks for the information on physics, ucbalumnus. DS’ first physics course will be AP physics next year (I believe “B” - or maybe “A”?). So taking the physics subject test next year won’t be a good idea. He says that he wants to try the chem test this year. Math is always a good possibility if he doesn’t do well in chem or needs a second math/science exam. </p>

<p>Thanks, momof3sons - the guidance dept provided that link to parents. They do not encourage taking SAT subject tests because so few colleges require them. So I was blindsided by the need to make a quick decision about the chem test this year. For most of the colleges on that list, I am sure he won’t be applying. But there are a couple that may end up being on his list as reaches, and one in particular that is a likely match, and his likely beloved safety will consider them. </p>

<p>It’s so hard to make these decisions before we have the list.</p>

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<p>Bartleby, I think he’ll be in the group who does well without much prep, because he has a 98 average in chem without breaking a sweat (and without being particularly interested in the subject). He has “bought in” to taking it, so it’s very likely that he will do what he has to do to learn the content that will not be covered in his course.</p>