<p>Wondering whether a kid should either retake, or try to do better on different subject tests for most selective admissions. The kid is scoring in 650-690 range (50th-75th percentile) so far, which seems too low (is it?) for Ivies, but considering how self-selecting the SAT 2 test-takers are, maybe these are actually okay scores? His SAT 1 tests are higher (>90 percentile without any prep). What score or, if colleges pay attention to percentiles, what percentiles will put this kid in the right range?</p>
<p>The right range for what? For Ivy admission? Subject tests should be above 700 (but keep in mind that many will submit a trio of 800s). But then, the SATs for ivies should be well above the 90% as well. But for most colleges, 650 is fine for subject tests.</p>
<p>Percentile matters more.</p>
<p>^I’d agree percentile is important, but take don’t forget that some subject tests have a self-selecting group of kids taking them. The one I’m most familiar with is Math2, where a 750 isn’t even in the 90th percentile, but is still presumably a better score than a perfect score on Math1. Some of the language tests really are only taken by native speakers.</p>
<p>Younger son wanted to get over 700 on three subject tests - his reaches are schools like Vassar, Georgetown, Johns Hopkins, Tufts. Not Ivy, but still fairly selective.</p>
<p>For ivies, an average of the 2 or 3 in the mid 700s would be the norm, with many, as Deirdre says submitting several 800s.</p>
<p>^Agree with hmom5…for the Ivys, aim for above 700 on each, mid 700s or higher if you can get it.</p>
<p>Reason for asking is that a 700 (or a 750) can represent vastly different percentiles, depending on the subject (12th percentile in some languages vs. 80th in BioE or Literature). A 750 in Bio M, which is 82%tile, is okay for an Ivy, but a 700 in Literature, or BioE, which are >=80%tile, are not quite high enough for an Ivy, based on replies here. These schools don’t consider the subject area’s vastly different percentiles? </p>
<p>Scores so far are for sophomore year so may improve with more work in subject areas. Again, wondering how many of these to try to take for the 750+'s.</p>
<p>S’s GC strongly suggested that if he wanted to apply to top schools (not Ivies) he needed to clear the 700 threshold because it’s a psychological one. As she observed, there is no real difference between a 690 and a 710, but psychologically, it makes a world of difference.
I don’t know if adcoms look at percentiles, but I think they evaluate scores in different subjects a bit differently. It’s somewhat harder to get a great score on the verbal part, easier to get a perfect one on the math.</p>
<p>It’s the number, not the percentile, that matters. </p>
<p>The college board has set the scoring so that, theoretically at least, the same degree of achievement in different subject matters will result in the same score. Thus, in theory, a 750 in US history is as impressive as a 750 on the math2c, although the percentile scores will be wildly different. </p>
<p>Since most colleges don’t specify which SATII scores you must submit, colleges compile stats based on the scores, not the percentiles. </p>
<p>In most cases, a college’s median SAT II scores aren’t a heck of a lot different than its median SAT V and math scores.</p>
<p>It’s the scaled score that count. Ivies would mostly be in the high 700’s for unhooked candidates. And many take the Subject Test after they’ve completed the AP course. </p>
<p>And concur with marite: for the Ivies, 700 is the first psych threshold, and 750+ is the second. Heck, even our local public Unis (Cal and UCLA) are chock-full of high test scorers. And, ~800 on Math 2 is extremely common for the Engineering schools.</p>
<p>Agree with jonri. It’s the numbers they look at. When my son was visiting some highly selective colleges he was generally told admissions office wants to see above 700 as a general rule. That doesn’t guarantee anything, but puts an applicant in the ball park.</p>
<p>I agree that it is score that matters. From what I’ve heard, many colleges just add SAT+ 2 X SAT IIs, and use either the sum or the average as “SAT score”.</p>
<p>Some schools might be paying a little more attention than others to the subjects in which the tests are taken. These schools often require a specific test to be taken (like Math II)</p>
<p>Hmmm, then non-native speakers should probably skip those world language subject tests…</p>
<p>This report from the College Board</p>
<p>[College-Bound</a> Seniors 2009 - SAT Total Group and State Reports](<a href=“http://professionals.collegeboard.com/data-reports-research/sat/cb-seniors-2009]College-Bound”>SAT Suite of Assessments – Reports | College Board)</p>
<p>tells you how many students took the various SAT tests and what the score distributions were. It is worth noting that the mean scores vary significantly AND are much higher than on the SAT 1 tests.</p>
<p>MomPhd, these are the mean scores as reported by the College Board for the foreign language subject tests:</p>
<p>Chinese with Listening: 763
French: 618
French with Listening: 637
German: 616
German with Listening: 609
Modern Hebrew: 650
Italian: 667
Japanese with Listening: 689
Korean with Listening: 763
Latin: 618
Spanish: 646
Spanish with Listening: 652</p>
<p>You can see that Chinese and Korean have really HIGH scores. This isn’t because Chinese and Korean are taught on a high level to non-native speakers in American schools. These two, of all the language tests, have a relatively high population of academically well-prepared students who are recent immigrants, or else international students.</p>
<p>Spanish is another language that potentially would have many recent immigrants who could do well on such a test, but that group does not present (at least by College Board measures) as well-prepared academically as the group of students excelling on the Chinese and Korean tests.</p>
<p>For students studying Spanish, French, German, Japanese, Latin, Italian or Hebrew taking the tests wouldn’t necessarily be something they should avoid if they feel well-enough prepared to expect decent scores. It doesn’t seem like they’d be at any disadvantage to do so. My daughter took the Latin test with only 3 semesters of self-study and she scored well above the mean. If she’d self-studied Korean for 3 semesters (or even twice that!) I would have recommended against taking the test. ;)</p>
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<p>I’ve read that SAT-Spanish can be brutal for non-native speakers.</p>
<p><a href=“http://professionals.collegeboard.com/profdownload/SAT-Subject-Test-Percentile-Ranks-2009.pdf[/url]”>Higher Education Professionals | College Board;
yes, especially Korean and Chinese…</p>
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<p>My son (non-native) took the AP Spanish, Spanish SATII (without listening) and the IB-SL Spanish tests. He said that the AP was the most difficult. His scores were AP = 3, SATII = 700, and IB-SL = 6 (out of 7). The SATII equated to about the 65th percentile as I recall. He did get two other 800s, so it all worked out.</p>