SAT/ACT for music majors

College Majors Music Major
1

I thought I’d ask for advice here vs. the standardized test area because I think the advice is likely to be more on point and you guys will understand why DS can’t spend all summer taking prep courses and why finding even an extra hour a few days per week for individual test prep is difficult. You guys also understand that the target scores are different for music admissions.

DS’s GPA is good - not superstar level but should be good enough not to rule out any of the music schools he is considering. On the other hand, based on past history and this year’s PSAT I know he tends to underperform on standardized tests relative to his GPA (he overthinks questions, is a slow reader, is very sensitive to the wording of questions, etc). I know test stats are not as critical for music students (hallelujah!) but they are not unimportant, either. We don’t need him to score high enough to meet thresholds for academic merit, but we do need him to score at least well enough to meet stated or unstated minimums for music departments.

The problem is my son (junior) has not yet taken the ACT or SAT. We had planned for him to take the ACT by now, but wouldn’t you know it, the testing dates for winter and spring have all fallen on days where he had a major music commitment and couldn’t do it (e.g. All-District, All-State). So I looked at SAT dates…the March SAT was the first new one and I’d read a million articles warning against taking the first one so we didn’t sign him up. We didn’t sign him up for the May SAT either because DS had no time at all for prep in April (spring break/college visits, spring band trip, etc.) and we weren’t sure he should even do the new SAT because I think the redesigned format will not be a good fit for him. To be fair, we don’t know if the ACT will be any better.

So…on to my questions. Is taking both the SAT and ACT in June a bad idea? I’m signing him up for the ACT for sure, but need to decide on the June SAT this week. Note that his school year ends late, and both tests will be given in the middle of studying for finals–he is already getting out of school a week early so he can go to one of the Interlochen institutes. Should he just concentrate on the ACT as many seem to be recommending for this year’s juniors? We want to make sure he has a chance to take each test twice if needed, because I think he might need it and I expect he would do better the second time around. We are trying to get him to do practice test sections a few times/week, but he also is studying for APs right now, so realistically, he would be taking either or both June tests with relatively minimal prep. There is a well regarded, one day, three hour ACT prep class in our area that meets the same morning as the June SAT (focuses mostly on ACT test taking strategies). Is it better to maybe sign him up for the June ACT and that prep class and then try the late Aug. SAT (unless we are surprised with a good enough score on the ACT)?

This summer he realistically will have only about 3.5 weeks in July to do test prep, but we don’t want to take one of those long expensive prep courses that last all day because he needs the time to write college essays and work on his audition repertoire and to fit in a few in-state and reasonably close college visits and sample lessons. What type of test prep options should we consider besides individual study with books, practice tests, and Khan Academy? This is my first (and only) kid so I don’t really know all the options. The fall test dates falling during marching band season, often on the morning after a home football game or the day of a competition, one is the same day as homecoming. That worries me. He can take the late Aug. SAT before school starts but it will come on the heels of 3 weeks of marching band camp where he’ll be too exhausted to study at the end of the day.

Oh, and now that the writing section is optional on the SAT, are there many schools left that will still require the SAT/ACT with Writing? A lot of schools don’t have next year’s info/requirements up yet.

Any and all advice appreciated!

2

I say talk both so you know which to focus on for a retest this fall. I also say you don’t have to take an expensive time consuming course. Don’t underestimate a good $25 book and practice tests. Practice tests are the best way to get quicker and also the best way to target study to weaker areas, particularly in math.

3

My son is pretty “average” when it comes to academics. He gets pretty good grades because he works hard and he cares. He’s not good at taking timed tests. We had similar concerns as you last year. Here’s how it worked out for him and my thoughts in retrospect.

He had a 3.75 GPA (his school does not do weighted grades). He took the ACT’s twice, March of his junior year and September of his senior year. He did ZERO prep for both. First score was 24, second was 26. He applied to 6 schools - Berklee, Michigan, USC Thornton, Oberlin, Juilliard and The New School, mix of BFA and BM programs. He did not get into Juilliard but got in everywhere else. He did not get any academic scholarships but received music merit scholarships from every school. I don’t believe his ACT score was an issue at all.

NOTE that Berklee, Juilliard, Eastman, NEC and MSM are all test-optional.

Of the “popular” university music schools, the only school that we came across that explicitly states academic requirements for music school applicants was University of Michigan (3.0 GPA and 24 ACT). Both Northwestern and USC Thornton admissions told us that his ACT score would not make him ineligible. Frost has a reputation for being very academic-aware but a 28 ACT will put you at the 25tth percentile for UM according to their enrolled student profile and that seems pretty attainable if Frost is on the list.

So, having done the research above, 24 ACT seemed a little uncomfortably low. I admit to being more worried than he was. The summer slipped away with various conflicts, Interlochen, etc. And the more he talked to people about applying to schools, the more he was convinced that it was just about the audition. I think he only re-took the ACT in September because he was embarrassed about his score. He never had any time to prep but he was confident that he could raise it few points just be taking it again, and he did. By then, there were a lot more important things to worry about. In retrospect, I’m glad he didn’t spend any more time or effort on it.

Unless your son is aiming for academic merits, or applying to more integrated music programs (like Columbia, for instance), I would try not to overthink it. Easy to have a panic attack just reading the SAT/ACT forum on CC – just don’t do it.

If you really feel the need to play it safe, I would take a survey of all the schools’ student profiles and try to go for the 25th percentile. The tippy-top schools aside, you’re probably looking at 28 or 29 putting you in great shape everywhere – as a music school applicant, of course.

4

You asked for any and all advice so I’m going to be blunt. There is such a thing as analysis paralysis. It’s never good. IMHO he needs to take a test soon. My D never “studied” for hers. We bought a book with test strategies and practice tests. I made her read the test strategies - like answer all questions in the last minute for the ACT. I talked them through with her. That could be done in an hour or two. I made sure she understood sections, time etc. then I had her do a few practice tests. They weren’t great. So I stopped telling her the scores. Like most music kids she had no time. But she had a very basic understanding of how it worked. With maybe 4 hours of work she took the ACT and did fine. If he does fine in June you’re done. If not he can decide what he wants to do about it in the summer. It could be a motivator for him to find time. I would not try to find a perfect situation bc it ain’t gonna happen. But he needs a baseline. Sign him up. Help him out basically. He’ll do fine.

We only did the ACT. All her schools accepted it. It seemed the easiest. With time tight she focused on that one only.

5

I say don’t get all worked up about the grades or the tests. A 3.25 and 1110 were good enough for Frost, Syracuse, and San Diego State(which is surprisingly hard to get into,) so it turned out the audition is much more important. She barely even mentioned the auditions until she said I had to drive her there, so she wasn’t to anxious about them.

In retrospect she probably should have applied to Thornton, but I didn’t understand the flexibility of music admissions so I never pressured her. I think that Music Business at Thornton is a non-audition track so the grades/tests are probably more important and she probably had a slim chance anyway.

She is now committed to Berklee, and I think it was probably the interview as much as the audition that helped her there.

6

My point of view is pretty radical but it comes from raising three kids who have very unique learning profiles. First keep in mind that the SAT is just a game. Learning to master a test like the SAT or the ACT is really no different than learning to master anything (including music). Some kids have an innate ability to excel on these tests. Others do not. For my kids standardized tests were riddled with land mines given how their brains work.

When people have a child who does not excel at these types of tests the temptation is to spend a lot of money and time on test prep courses. And for some kids those test prep courses will indeed improve your child’s score significantly. But the child will not necessarily learn anything by devoting the time and energy to this task except how to take a standardized test. And honestly how often in life once you are an adult is taking a standardized test important.

For other kids their struggles with standardized tests is part of a larger learning profile. And if you as a parent can find somebody who can work with your child on those particular weak areas you will be giving your child a skill they can use for life. For these kids the parents are better off spending the time and money to have the child work with a skilled cognitive therapeutic tutor who can help the child with things like organization, reading comprehension, time management and anxiety around test taking. Working on these skills will have the added bonus of improving your child’s ability to excel in the music world. Because although one might not think of academics as being important for a musician, all musicians will need to learn to deal with budgeting, grant writing and public speaking.

Finally think about your child’s future brain (NOT WHAT COLLEGE THEY WILL GET INTO). When my youngest was in HS I took the approach that spending time practicing was probably better for his brain development than spending the same amount of time in a test prep class. We skipped the test prep. My son did however work with a tutor who worked on the skills I listed above.

BTW, for all those who insist that test prep is important and part of learning. I have another child who is getting a math PhD in a tier one program, who struggles with standardized tests. His math SAT scores ad his GRE scores were off the charts BAD. He will never be good at taking standardized tests. That is just not who he is or how his brain works.

7

My S is similar. He got a 26 on an unprepped ACT. He wants at least a 28 to apply to U-Miami. A 32, for example is auto-tuition to Temple, but a 32 might be a stretch, and the reward is not essential to have. He needs a 27 to apply to honors college at UNT. A subsequent practice test showed 29. So S will put in some study this summer and retake Sept and/or Oct.
The first thing that popped into my mind, OP, was to skip the district or all-state, honestly.

8

I agree with those that say he should take a test soon. If possible, I’d recommend a practice test on one exam or the other if he hasn’t taken any - from a book, on-line, etc. Else sign up for one of the upcoming dates and let him take it with no expectations/pressure. This will familiarize him with the test in a low-key way and give him an idea of score. You may find no further prep is necessary. Or if he does really poorly, you will have an idea how to best spend his limited prep time (maybe he just needs to review the strategies for vocabulary or a few areas of math).

One prep form that I rarely see mentioned is the SAT Daily Question app. My two did not take any prep classes, but did the question-of-the-day starting in 10th or 11th grade. It was helpful in that it was only one question so takes a few minutes a day - could be done in car en route to music lesson, etc. The questions vary over the different subjects of the SAT so slowly expose the kids to all areas, and include hints and answer explanation. Our girls enjoyed trying to stump their parents by asking us some of the tougher ones.

9

Thanks to all. I am going to sign him up for the June ACT today, I am still waffling about the SAT.

@ScreenName48105 - our sons sound very similar and I am expecting the first ACT test with no significant prep to come in around that 24-26 range, so found your comments especially helpful.

@StacJip great advice all around which I will take to heart.

@MomOf2TeenGirls I will look for that app.

@GoForth too late now to skip All-District and All-State, but those events mean a great deal to my kid–they are one of the highlights of his year – and in our area and on his instrument they really do mean something. Competition is very fierce. We may have to argue that point next year, however, since the All-District event and the all-state tryouts will likely fall in February at peak audition time.

To all, I am relieved that it sounds like most music kids don’t really study or prep much for testing. I live in a super competitive, overachieving area where the moms talk about this stuff constantly, have kids taking 5-6 APs junior year, etc. and it’s hard not to let it affect you a little. I think I’m less worried about testing stats relative to most of the good music schools and more worried about it relative to the two in-state schools with good music programs that he will be applying to, which will be our financial safeties as well as solid options if he decides to do music ed instead of performance. His grades are right on target for those on Naviance, but they are getting increasingly hard to get into, so his test scores could make them less “safe” than they otherwise would be. They are schools where you must be admitted to both the main campus and the school of music.

10

None of my kids prepped for standardized tests. I think taking the tests a few times may be the best way to prep! Tell him to take the next one without too much worry and see it as practice:that might decrease stress.

I really liked Stacjip’s post (I always like Stacjp’s posts). Test prep has a specific, short-term goal which may not be as important in this context, given that your son wants to do a BM. But for those whose testing issues reflect a longer-term challenge, addressing whatever learning issue becomes important. (My youngest didn’t prep for tests but we did have her evaluated between high school and college and it validated concerns.)

State schools are more numbers-driven, it is true. Maybe you can ask admissions about the benchmark for music students in a BM program.

Finally, many many selective schools are now test-optional: http://fairtest.org/university/optional I see NEC and Bard on here, randomly, so conservatories and liberal arts colleges are included. I also see some state U’s including Michigan. I only glanced. You will no doubt find schools on there that your son might be considering already.

11

I can empathize with the highly competitive area. I had one saving grace (and maybe it will be helpful to you): my mother who had been a high school English teacher for 35 years. She strongly advised against taking college tests too early (in her opinion). She felt Jr year was appropriate but no earlier. And she also felt high school work does prepare you appropriately. Besides basic test taking skills related to the test, she didn’t believe in prep classes feeling they were a waste of money (and working on fears and over-stated promises). She was also not a big fan of AP courses either. She felt they were inappropriate for many students and that that work should be left for college. She felt that you missed a certain ability to slow down and explore subjects. My D did take a few AP courses where she had some strengths. But we tried not to ride that horse too hard either. It was difficult…I did actually resort to a little “BSing” with those mothers just to get by…haha…in the jungle you need to do what you need to do to survive!

12

@bridgenail I’m sure your mom was a great counterbalance to the competitive atmosphere! Actually, I use this forum in much the same way. When I start to worry that my kid isn’t taking all the APs everyone else is taking or isn’t taking that SAT prep class I can come here and feel much better about DS reserving the time for practice instead!

13

I’m going to reiterate a few things for emphasis. Pretty much ALL of the university music schools require admission to both the university and the school of music, e.g. Michigan, UI, USC, Northwestern, Michigan State, Miami (Frost). But music school applicants are like athletic recruits (think Stanford football player…) and are not assessed or held to the same academic criteria as the rest of the applicants. They’re competing with their music aptitude, not their ACT/SAT scores. I would just not look at Naviance at all.

FWIW, my son (also a saxophonist) was in the all-state jazz band freshman and sophomore years but gave it up after that. He also quit the high school symphony band last year and pared down his school performance groups to just one class.

If you’re concerned about academic criteria for admissions, I really encourage you to contact the admissions offices of the music schools and have a direct discussion about your son’s grades and scores. I think they will reassure you.

14

@ScreenName48105 yeah, I probably will do that (contact the schools’ music admissions offices). Very true that Naviance will not be accurate for music students, but I was using it more as a rough guideline to assess whether we could count a state school as an academic safety/match or not, since there are tons of kids from his school who apply. I have heard that one of the state schools does not cut much slack to music applicants, but I need to verify that. It’s the more competitive admit of the two schools and the one with the best music program.

My son won’t be cutting back on school music, however. The HS music programs in this area are top notch, and his even higher level extracurricular ensemble requires participation in one’s own school band. Most extracurricular ensembles around here require that. Marching band is required for symphonic band here, too. His leadership roles are band related, his social life is almost entirely band related, too. And his band director, who would be writing a recommendation for schools that require two music ones, is very well connected at those two state schools (grad of one of them and teaches at summer camp there).

I think I just need to worry less! After lurking here and reading for two years I am confident we are doing all the right things. I just need to trust the process.

15

FYI, My son is about to graduate from NEC. We lived in one of the most competitive districts in the country. It is in the top of the pack for the graph that was recently in the NYTimes. Apparently many kids are three to four grade levels ahead of their peers in the rest of the country. My son’s friend group was very academic and very smart. Four years ago when he graduated from HS one of his best friends turned to him and said, "You know I am really jealous of you. You didn’t cave in and spend all your time building your college resume but instead just focused on what you loved and let the rest take care of itself. "

The reason our son was allowed to do that is that all three of my kids have learning disabilities and mental health issues. His siblings had a rough time and we learned the hard way that what matters most is raising kids who are mentally healthy, grounded and who know who they are and who they want to be. No amount of “bragging” rights is worth jeopardizing a child’s health.

16

Such great perspective @StacJip! I do think his friends are jealous of him right now at AP time, when they have 3-5 tests to prepare for and he has one (and it’s AP Lang, so not a test with lots of facts to memorize). Meanwhile my son just walked in the door after his piano lesson humming a cheerful tune and then settled in to work on his homework. :slight_smile:

17

S has THE APUSH test tomorrow!!!

18

@classicalsaxmom I asked my child to review practice tests for both the SAT and ACT and choose the test that felt most comfortable. My child chose the ACT. If you have not already registered your child, I thought I would mention that we received an email from ACT offering a free two-hour online review of the test sections to help students prepare. I can’t vouch for the content or quality of what they are offering, but it might be worth investigating.

19

Good luck @GoForth’s S! I hope APUSH went well. @unscripted he is registered now, but I will keep my eye out for ACT emails. He has the red Real ACT practice book to work on in bits of free time.

20

APUSH was a real time hog - if you do everything by the book and take it seriously. S opted to take it even though I was OK with either way. I guess whichever choice we make, we usually feel it was the right one. S’ idea was to free up a slot in college and to not be bored in US History, to help the weighted HS GPA. Just last night, the teacher advised S about a concept in writing his essay questions that opened S’ eyes - that awakening may help in other writing. I am glad the teacher could point out something we could not define - S would go right into the details in an essay - he studies and knows the details well, but he would not start with a broad statement to support with his details. So, now he can think of his details and step back to think about what the overall context is for those details. That was great to know. APUSH test done; S en route home.