My son will be a HS senior this fall and and has taken the ACT once, got a 24. He’s been on the fence about taking it again; hates standardized tests and doesn’t do well on them. He wanted to rely on the strength of his auditions for admissions. His GPA is 3.75 (nothing below a B+.) He’s always known that at least a few of the music schools on his list require test scores but I guess felt that he at least met the minimum requirement. He’s suddenly questioning that assumption. Maybe because of a growing interest in Thornton.
SO, looking at the test dates, it looks like his choice is a September ACT or October SAT. The ACT website indicates that the October date won’t have results until well into November. The October SAT, on the other hand, will have results available in October. I don’t think he’s even considered taking the SAT instead but, reading the descriptions/comparisons, it sounds like it might be a better format for him. The time-management aspect of the ACT puts him in a panic; the SAT sounds more reasonable. The October test date also sounds better, so that he can at least have a month to prep, maybe take a few practice tests, etc. He’ll be at camp until almost the end of August, so prepping for the September test is probably unrealistic.
I’m an engineer, graduated from high school 35 years ago, took my SAT’s once (after having taken the PSAT as the “prep”) and 4 AP exams, and only applied to two engineering schools. So, I’m completely clueless about this whole ACT/SAT/prep strategy thing. I’m sure we’re really late in thinking about it.
FWIW, I think his ACT score is low with respect to his abilities. It could probably improve significantly with enough prep but he doesn’t have time. His teachers really like him and he will have solid academic recommendations.
I would really appreciate any and all advice about this.
I’ll take a shot at this…although I hate “test” questions.
Like many of these kids, my D was so busy with music and performance she never focused on the tests. We were satisfied with the first score on the ACT as we checked the schools and she was in a safe range for all. We live in an area where the ACT is the primary test. Then we were told that the schools really like to see 2 attempts. I can’t remember who told me this (and don’t know that it’s true). So she re-took it and got the exact same score…but a different mix of numbers for reading, math etc. Then we found out some schools would allow you to “super” score with the ACT. So she could submit her best scores from both tests. She looked pretty good in that case! At that point the second test seemed worth it.
I guess I would really drill down on the schools to which he will apply with questions:
What test is needed? Are tests needed? Not all schools require them.
What is the policy of the schools vs the music program on test scores for admittance?
Can he super score any results? Would that make the ACT better to take.
I don’t know enough of the ACT vs the SAT formats to comment on that. I just wonder if sticking with the same test and format may be easier on him especially if he has some test anxiety. It’s hard to tell unless you are the parent (and even then it’s still hard!).
You probably want to sit with your son and go over any “hard” numbers. If the mid-range for admittance is 27 and he has a 24, he needs to decide what he wants to do about that. At some schools, he may be able to be accepted as long as he is in the "range’’ of acceptance, maybe 24 - 31, due to an excellent audition. There was only one school where my daughter was below the middle range. The recruiter in our area (who knew nothing about the music program) highly suggested that she re-test to get to the middle range. That wasn’t going to happen. It wasn’t high on her list. She was accepted, regardless, with her highest scholarship offer (to match their amazing tuition - haha). However she was “in the range” for acceptance according to their website.
Note different schools have different policies on this so if you have any concerns, call the school and ask how test scores can impact acceptance in their school and music program. Then share that information with your son so he can buy into re-testing if he wants. And, yes I did the calling on issues like this for undergrad.
One of the most important things I can add would be to contact the admissions department of the schools that want test scores, to ask how much they count. Usually it is music schools within universities that look at the scores, from what I know even if standalone music schools ask for test scores, they don’t put a lot of weight on it. It also may depend when your kid is planning on doing a BM alone, or a dual degree. With music school admission, it is going to be about the audition, and from everything I know they do give a break to music students when it comes to the academic requirements, a kid with a 24 ACT who was applying academically may not get in, for example, but a music student might get in with that, depending on their audition. That doesn’t mean GPA and scores don’t matter, if the kid is really off the mark, it could keep them from getting admitted to the university no matter how good their audition. In other cases strong test scores and grades might get them academic merit aid…great test scores and grades if their audition isn’t good won’t get them into the music school, and if I had to tell you what to concentrate on, it would be the music, that he have as strong an audition as possible.
My biggest piece of advice is for the music schools he is thinking of, send them an e-mail and ask them what they think, would an ACT of 24 be too low for a student planning on getting a BM?
One thing that would be helpful, is he planning on getting a BM or a BA? Is he planning on dual degree or single degree? Is the music school that wants the grades part of a university, like U Mich, or a standalone? Information like that can help people give advice, a lot of factors go into admissions and such…
@Screenname48105 Did he take the PSAT? Did he prep much (or at all) for the ACT?
If he got a 24 without prep, you might find that he gets a higher score when he retakes it just based on familiarity. My daughter took the ACT completely cold in April (she had no idea there was a science section!) and took it again in June with NO additional prep. She did better on every section and her composite went up by 3 points (27 to 30).
I think all the schools that want test scores are part of a university. Off the top of my head, Michigan, Michigan State, Oberlin, Jacobs (IU), and Thornton. And I think they all have that two-part admissions process, where the music school selects based on the audition but the university also has to approve the admission as well. Some are BM (Michigan State, Oberlin, IU), some are BFA (Michigan). I think Thornton offers both. We know a few kids in the last few years who the music school at Michigan wanted but couldn’t get past the university admissions, so I’m sure that happens. My impression, at least at Michigan, was that low grades were more of a problem than low test scores, which makes sense. My son’s going for single degree only, jazz studies/jazz performance.
I appreciate the recommendation to call specific admissions offices. I guess I didn’t think it would be appropriate to ask those kinds of specific questions. Juilliard, for instance, told us flat out that they never disclose what instruments or how many they would accept that year. Presumably, you could apply and go through the whole application and audition process even when they have no intention of taking any freshmen for that instrument. (He told us they accept those applications just in case they find someone they absolutely can’t pass up.)
@eh, he did part of one practice test for the ACT; just the math, I think. He did take the PSAT and I’ll have to talk to him about his impression of it and compare what the projected score was compared to the ACT score he got. That would probably be the best indication of whether he should re-take the ACT or maybe switch over to the SAT.
This may or may not be useful with conservatories in mind, but look at the whole list if you can: http://fairtest.org/university/optional Many test optional schools are top schools. Sometimes merit scholarships still require test scores though.
Does your son have any learning challenges? Has he been evaluated for either a learning challenge or test anxiety? That big a gap between classroom and test performance would seem to point to a problem with timed tests. If he gets a diagnosis (including anxiety) he can get accommodations such as extra time, testing in a separate room, extra breaks etc. through College Board. It is a complicated process but very helpful for many.
That big a gap between classroom and test performance would seem to point to a problem with timed tests.
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Yes, I think that’s probably clear in his case. He gets good grades and, while his school doesn’t offer AP/honors classes, their math and science classes are considered to be “honors” caliber and he’s on the track that has him taking calculus and physics next year. He’s not brilliant but is a conscientious student who works hard and, well, all his teachers really like him. He’s just careful and likes to try to figure out things he doesn’t immediately know the answers for. The first time he took a practice test, he carefully and systematically solved each question, and only got through half the test in the time allotted. He was pretty crushed.
As a parent (and a working professional), I really hate the whole test process and don’t want to make a big deal out of it or try to change his problem solving methodology/strategy. IMO, in real life, the ability to figure out how to solve a problem you don’t know how to solve, and solve it correctly, is much more valuable than solving only the problems you know how to solve, and doing it as quickly as you can. (Though, clearly, the College Board thinks differently.) I don’t want him to feel that he’s “challenged” just because he doesn’t do the latter well, or that it’s even a valid measure in predicting success in music school and a music career. He does fine in classroom tests and doesn’t get anxious about taking them at all.
And, well, the good news is that I did talk to admissions at Michigan and Thornton as suggested and they both seemed perfectly comfortable with his numbers. Thornton admission told me that while you have to be admitted by both USC and Thornton, the situation where he’s accepted by Thornton but rejected by USC on the basis of grades or test scores would never happen. That was a relief, so a big thanks to those who suggest I talk to them directly!
He may want to take the test again anyway. I think it bugs him that all his friends’ scores are much higher.
The way he works can be a sign of giftedness, actually. Many very bright kids do things more deeply. The terminology varies and clearly you don’t like the term “challenged,” which is a euphemism to begin with. Many, many kids who have a good (positive) reason for doing tests more slowly get accommodations that allow them to do their best work. He deserves better scores, it would seem and only extra time would reflect his true abilities. But you do not need to go down that road, of course, since you happily got the answers you wanted from the schools.
Just a couple of other comments that may be helpful.
Once he’s done with the ACT or SAT in high school, it is aaallll done. No more standardized tests in most cases.
I had to nearly lock my D in a room to take a few practice tests. She was so “scared” to see her results. She hadn’t studied like everyone else!! She was too busy!! Everyone else had been testing for years!!! There was a lot of excuse-mongering. But I did make her sit in her room and listen to me discuss the “test strategies” (after being given the chance to read it on her own - which she didn’t do) . Strategies like answer every question in the last few seconds whether you’ve read the question or not - just circle something in. My daughter, being very literal, thought that that was “wrong” - she was being difficult. But I went over strategies (which were really helpful, I think) and made her sit in her room one afternoon and do a few practice tests…and I told her we weren’t going to grade them bc I knew that game too…no score was going to be good enough for her. So after she took them I threw them away. But she got the experience, learned a few strategies and did fine in the end. What a lot of work kids are! Haha.
My D went to IU. I think he would fine with IU. It’s a 2 step process - initial acceptance by the school or a type of hold (if ACT/GPA are below acceptance) until after the audition. Then the music school acceptance which is based on the audition. At IU the audition will be the primary deciding factor. I think the combo of ACT and GPA makes him safe for initial acceptance at IU. My D knew a student who did not get an initial acceptance there and was held until after the audition. He was accepted after the audition. He went to her high school and I believe it was a GPA issue - musically brilliant but had trouble getting anything done. A classroom was a tough place for him. Sound like your son does just fine in the classroom and that’s more important than the test score.
Compmom and bridgenail, I appreciate both of your comments. I think the audition will be the deciding factor pretty much everywhere he applies and, yes, he does fine in the classroom, likes school, gets along with teachers, etc. I’m much more worried about him getting into the school he wants to attend than how he’ll do once he’s there.
Who knows, maybe he’ll take it again, just to go after a better score because he’s really competitive. If he doesn’t think of it as a measure of his intelligence but as a “score to beat”, he’ll probably do better.
@ScreenName48105 I’ve mentioned this before on this forum, but between myself and the father of one of my daughter’s friends we’ve spoken directly with admission folks from Michigan, Northwestern, and Rice; three academically tough music schools. Michigan and Northwestern both said “get a 24 on your ACT” and Rice said a 26. These also fell under the category of “… and you’ll be fine” (and most said 3.6-ish GPA is fine). All three schools said that even if you were lower than that but someone really wanted you in their studio they’d go to bat on your behalf.
(Disclaimer on that last part though: I’ve also been told that how much pull the music department has in reality varies greatly from school to school – at Michigan and NW the U’s hold a stricter line but from what I’ve been told Shepherd behaves more like a stand-alone conservatory where they have a stronger voice in admits. When we visited Jacobs we were told exactly what @bridgenail said, they apparently behave more like Shepherd.)
All this assumes however that, as musicprnt said, you have a strong audition. If your son does well on his auditions he should be good to go with grades and test scores. I wouldn’t panic over a 24 by any stretch. But a 32 won’t make up for a bad audition.
@DesignDad, thanks for the information. It really helps to reinforce my impression. I did speak to Michigan (SMTD) admission yesterday and they told me the minimum criteria is 24 ACT and 3.0 GPA. The tone of the answer also implied that, as long as the applicant meets the minimums, the selection process is left up to the department/faculty. Of course, that’s not to say that the faculty don’t take grades/test scores into consideration. But, even so, if he’s going in with an academic weakness, I’m glad it’s the test scores, as opposed to his grades.
At Michigan, he knows the faculty, has has lessons and masterclasses, attended summer jazz camp and will be playing in two big bands directed by faculty members this year, so if they don’t take him, it’ll be because it’s just not meant to be. We’d been told that Northwestern requires higher academic qualifications (I haven’t spoken to their admissions), so I’m glad you shared the information you have. Thanks.
I would also ask if scores affect merit scholarships- at least at some of the schools mentioned.
I do wonder why he works slowly and carefully on tests but apparently works at a normal pace with school work. Of does he do school work very thoroughly and carefully as well? Does he get nervous about auditions or just tests?
I know you aren’t asking about this so if you prefer, just ignore. Just wondering about the bigger picture.
He’s on the slow side with homework, too, but not extraordinarily so. And he doesn’t exactly get “nervous” with timed tests but knowing he’s under a strict time constraint seems to make him lose focus and kind of flail around, sort of like what happens when many of us play a really fast-moving video game. Funny thing is that he’s a good sight-reader and an ace at video games, and really athletic. So, it’s not simply about processing speed.
He’s fine with auditions; he’s had a lot of them. He loves to perform and loves to solo. He doesn’t play much classical solo works anymore but he does play in sax quartets at adjudicated events for school, and he’s usually the “rock” of the group who’s dependable, calm, keeps tempo, etc.
Unless he wants to double degree at Oberlin, the admission process for the conservatory is separate from the college. The con weighs heavy on the audition, not the test score.