I think there was a discussion about this awhile back in the other threads, but my son is wanting to apply to some schools like Northwestern, USC, Vanderbilt, Michigan. I know that the audition is the first thing looked at but would an ACT score of 31 and SAT of 1380 be good enough to get into these schools? He is wanting to double major in performance and economics.
If you’re speaking about double degrees (which you cannot initially apply for at USC) those scores will be low for the academic admit - which you’ll need, as your son will be applying separately to the Schools of Music and the Colleges. He might be admitted to the School of Music but denied from the academic degree. I would recommend looking at schools where his academic profile is more in-line. Perhaps Lawrence, Bard (which is test optional), University of Puget Sound, Oberlin?
Thanks for your reply. What about just applying to the music school at those colleges? He’s trying to determine if he needs to take those tests again.
Just applying to the music schools for a single degree is a different story. There the bar will be lower than for the academic admits. You could also consider state schools like UNT, Ohio/Bowling Green, Cincinnati, Kentucky, Missouri/Kansas City, U South Carolina, Arizona State, Indiana etc - where the admission level for academics is not at the upper tier such as the ones in your original post. They all have very good schools of music.
In most places, audition is king provided the minimum score is met. Those scores are fine for Michigan and Northwestern schools of music alone.
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Yes, those scores will be fine. If your son nails the auditions, he will be accepted to those schools.
While I agree that those scores probably won’t prevent your son from being rejected, the schools you mention will also care about GPA, rigor of curriculum, teacher and counselor recommendations, and other stuff. It’s not just ACT/SAT and audition.
Have you read the Double Degree Dilemma, posted closer to the top of this forum? It describes the different ways to study music. Your post mentions “double major” but it seems that you meant “double degree.”
Also make sure to read this entire list of schools that are test-optional or don’t emphasize scores. https://www.fairtest.org/university/optional (Your son’s scores are fine but not extremely competitive. Also note that this list includes many top schools.)
He could certainly apply only to a conservatory or school of music for a BM degree, and audition.
Or do a double degree at a school that has both BA (Or BS) and BM.
He could also apply to a college/university WITHOUT a conservatory or school of music, and major in music, major in economics, double major or major/minor.
At many schools without a performance degree, students can get credit for lessons and extracurricular performance. And non-music majors can continue with lessons and extracurricular performance as well.
So here are the options:
BM performance
BA in music (often no audition but he would submit a supplement with recording, resume, letters of recommendation)
BA or BS in economics (music lessons and extracurricular performance)
BA or BS in economics with minor in music or BA in music with minor in economics
BA with double major music and economics
BA/BM double degree with music and economics (5 years)
major in something else entirely and do music as an extracurricular (with lessons)
Note that Oberlin recently announced it was enhancing the college (versus conservatory) music major for the BA. This is only one example of the variation in programs and the need to keep up!
You really have to check the details of websites, degree and course descriptions in particular, to find out how each program works. Particularly in terms of performance opportunities and lessons for non-majors or BA music majors.
Big question is why does he want to do music AND economics? Is the economics a passion of his or is that major a practical “back up”? What are his goals for his education? Does he want full immersion in music, with 3/4 of his classes in music as with a BM? Does he have other academic interests? How would he handle the stress (and extra year) of a double degree?
The essay I mentioned uses hypothetical individuals to help students gauge what they really want. Ask your son which one he identifies with.
Thanks so much for all of that wonderful information. I think he wants a double degree because he loves both AND as a backup. Orchestras only need 1 tuba player and jobs are scarce, but he loves playing and wants to continue in college. His GPA is 3.9 unweighted and 4.1 weighted with 7 AP classes to date plus he will take 4 more his senior year so he’s had a pretty rigorous high school career so far. He’s also got many state and national level achievements under his belt and many other extra curricular activities. He’s just trying to decide if he needs to take the act/sat again to raise his score. I appreciate all of the feedback from you all 
It helps to read about the difference between a double major and double degree. Some double degrees are within the same institution, and some are shared between a college and conservatory, with the conservatory a separate institution.
Again, your son can continue music with lessons and extracurricular performance if he so chooses, without majoring or doing a double degree. In that case, his music experience would add to his chances of admission, especially if he does a music supplement with resume (including state and national achievements), recording and letter(s) of recommendation from teacher or director.
For many instruments, an orchestra job isn’t the only goal these days, but for tuba I can see how that might be a focus. Although I know some contemporary composers who write for tuba!
There are musicians who don’t do a BM, and go on to grad school or performance. (And BM students who go on to something else!)
Sounds like he is good with handling stress. A double degree in music and economics might be tough but doable.
As for scores, take a good long look at that list of test optional schools. I was amazed when I first saw it, and one of my kids did early action at two of them, saving her from test prep and anxiety. Applying without scores does NOT affect your chances, but it does affect merit aid: scores are often required for that.
His scores are fine for many schools. Check out the Colleges that Change Lives website!
@tubamama It sounds like your son has a very nice academic resume and foundation. He’ll have some nice school choices. Since the audition will be the primary deciding factor on whether or not he gets offered a spot at a university’s music program at this point, you/he just want to make sure that the test scores aren’t going to keep him out.
So should he take the tests again? I’d say “yes.” A 31 ACT and 1380 SAT is within the window of acceptability of the truly top-notch music performance programs at elite universities (say USC, Northwestern, NYU just to name three), but towards the bottom of the range.
There is little downside to taking the tests again. Yes, I realize there is potential for test fatigue; to mitigate that, have your son retake only one of the tests, not both of them. Whichever one he feels more comfortable taking, just concentrate on studying for that in the September sitting. Bumping an ACT up to a 32 or 33 and an SAT above 1450 would minimize the academic side of the university from turning him down for the music major.
If he decides to apply Dual Degree, the statements above aren’t applicable. He’d have to be competitive with test scores for non-music majors, and at the top universities you’re now talking 34-35 and 1520+.
Mind you, these are just general guidelines. Predicting college admissions is an increasingly inexact science.
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Thanks again for all of the wonderful tips and suggestions. I am so glad I found this forum early My son decided to go ahead and take each test 1 more time prior to starting the application process this fall. I did read the double degree dilemma last night and found it extremely helpful and had my son read it as well!
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D only took SAT once and the scores were fine for admissions to conservatories and music schools. What we did not realize was that the higher the scores, the better position for academic merit scholarships in schools like NU, Michigan, …
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tubamama——— Great! Your son is bright and is up for challenging to take SAT or/and ACT once more! Like what songbirdmama said, if “merit” scholarship $$$ matters, higer SAT or ACT may make a big or small difference in COA (X 4 years), not only increasing chances of admissions. We can get ideas in “Merit scholarship for music major” thread. USC seems like giving more merit award for academic but less for music.
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I know that Vanderbilt, Oberlin (full school - not conservatory alone) and UT consider GPA/test scores and class rigor as part of the evaluation to pass the pre-screen, If the student doesn’t meet their academic minimums, they will not pass the pre-screen no matter how wonderful the audition. ACT/SAT scores are very important to all three schools - get him above 1400 and you should be good. The rest of his stats look great.
Vanderbilt has several academic scholarships available if you apply early, but the bulk of their aid is based on financial need. No music scholarships are offered.
Good luck!.
One further comment…your son sounds very much like mine. My boy plans on pursuing a performance major in bassoon, a minor in German and a major in economics. That may all change after freshman year, but all of the LAC’s he applied to encouraged his wild plan and will work with his class schedule to help him make that happen in four years.
The public’s he applied were very adamant that it couldn’t be done in less than five or six years.They just don’t have the flexibility of private schools.
May I suggest you look into SMU? It’s a superb school (ranked 51) with a great music conservatory, generous scholarships for a student like your son (if he can raise his SAT/ACT up a bit), a gorgeous campus smack dab in a million dollar neighborhood, around 10K students, I have no idea if they have solid tuba professors, but they have three stellar bassoon professors on staff so I suspect they have the same standards across the board.
The Meadows school of music gives generous academic and music scholarships in addition to the school wide academic scholarships. They also give grants, financial aid, work study and special gifts of $1500 per year to music students for festivals or other studies. They pay marching band members $3500 per year. They actively encourage prospective student to double major.
My son got a fantastic package from SMU. I actually cried when he turned it down. $52K a year.
He chose Vanderbilt instead with the same dollar package.
If you do decide to apply, you must go visit - they definitely take demonstrated interest into consideration. Try to book a lesson in conjunction with the visit, cover all the bases if you make the trip.
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Just to clarify: " Since the audition will be the primary deciding factor on whether or not he gets offered a spot at a university’s music program"…This statement is true for BM programs, but not most BA music programs, which often don’t have auditions.
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