<p>thank you, papa chicken, for posting the addition of the LAC's. Just to make your point from the May thread about the increase in SAT score ranges at some of the top LAC's, I just checked the Davidson website and see that for the incoming class the score is 2840(not the 2710 from a few years ago-US news lags by 2 years in stats); it's becoming very competitive at these top schools.</p>
<pre><code> http://www2.davidson.edu/admission/apply_icprofile.asp
</code></pre>
<p>"Some really surprising stats - including the fact Caltech is #1 and Vanderbilt and Virginia are ranked higher than Michigan"</p>
<p>you need to get out of your state more.........</p>
<p>I'm not suprised that lots of LAC's are above Uni's, I am surprised that Cornell is relatively slow compared to the rest since it has a huge engineering program</p>
<p>thoughtprocess, I think the engineering school is mostly responsible for the 30 point difference in verbal and math 75th + 25th percentiles at cornell.</p>
<p>confidential,
that is the most mindless comment i have ever heard. UVA's sat average is at that level due to one high school in virginia?????????????????????????
So you think states like NC, mich, etc. do not have the combined quality of instate students(SAT wise) that students in VA do because of ONE high school??? I would think that out of state students have a higher SAT average than instates, due to the much more intense level of competition. Please do not try to account for UVA having a student body with one of the HIGHEST public SAT averages b/c tj high school in VA, that is not fair to the University and it's 13000+ undergrads.</p>
<p>yeah confidential, less than 150 students out of a class of 3000+ is not going to make a huge difference, especially since a good number of the TJ students attending UVA do not have 1480+ SATs. </p>
<p><em>Warning: this might sound harsh, don't read if you're in a sensitive mood</em> </p>
<p>If I didn't know you go to TJ by your constant bragging about it, I'd definitely know from the way you sometimes pull nonsense out of nowhere and confidently state that it's fact. Gotta love TJ BSing skills. :p</p>
<p>He is right as far as the concept goes. The NOVA area in Virginia is very similar to the Northeast, in that it is a small area with many top students. The truth is that UVA's slightly higher SAT average <em>is</em> due in part to the high number of affluent students in the state, and unlike most of the Northeastern states Virginia is a top public school, so many students stay there. NC and Michigan can't really rival NOVA or New England on the whole.</p>
<p>Right, but TJ != Northern Virginia (NOVA is a community college people! :p). He was giving one school too much credit. TJ is great and all, but sometimes people get a bit carried away. </p>
<p>But in any case I really don't think ranking these schools by SAT scores has any merit. We know Cal, Mich, and UVA are the best publics, it isn't worth trying to split hairs to come up with a precise ranking. :)</p>
<p>ha. maybe i should have left publics off that ranking. its like comparing apples and oragnes...</p>
<p>I don't know where you get your SAT stats or methodology either. For example, everyone knows that William & Mary has the 3rd highest SAT scores in the South (this includes DC) after Duke and Rice.</p>
<p>I think that the students at Washington and Lee and at Davidson might find your allegation about Willam and Mary's SAT status a bit suspect; I have checked the Davidson stats(link is given in earlier post #21) with W&M's website, and W&M's class profile is below both W&L and Davidson's. W&M is a very good school, but i do not think it is thought of as one of the top 3 in the South. Certainly not by 'everybody".</p>
<p>When do the new data sets come out?</p>
<p>SouthernBoy, what about Georgetown (you included DC), Vandy & Emory?</p>
<p>In researching your claim, heres what I came up with .</p>
<p>Well, this is interesting....quote from W&M's web page:
"The average SAT score of William and Mary's incoming first-year students is higher than that of any other Virginia institution"</p>
<p>heres a link to W&Ms SAT stats, only thru 2003:
<a href="http://www.wm.edu/ir/freshman_profile.htm%5B/url%5D">http://www.wm.edu/ir/freshman_profile.htm</a></p>
<p>The W&M mean SAT for 2003 was 1343, on the steady rise from prior years. Couldnt find anything more current on their web page.</p>
<p>UVA
.2004 = 1330 mean, 1334 in 2003
.source:
<a href="http://www.web.virginia.edu/iaas/data_catalog/institutional/data_digest/adm_total.htm%5B/url%5D">http://www.web.virginia.edu/iaas/data_catalog/institutional/data_digest/adm_total.htm</a></p>
<p>W&L
.mean not discretely reported, but average of 25% and 75% for 2004 is 1380, and 1375 by the same method for 2003
.source:
<a href="http://ir.wlu.edu/cds/cds2004.htm%5B/url%5D">http://ir.wlu.edu/cds/cds2004.htm</a></p>
<p>OK, so I guess that W&Ms web page must refer to public institutions.</p>
<p>Georgetown ..I cant find any current info on SAT scores on their web page, but if one takes the average 2003 25%-75% (from the 2005 USNews), that comes out to 1375.</p>
<p>Vanderbilt
..new freshman class has a 25%-75% average of 1340, so given year-to-year inflation, Id bet W&Ms #s are a bit higher
..source:
<a href="http://www.vanderbilt.edu/facts.html#student%5B/url%5D">http://www.vanderbilt.edu/facts.html#student</a></p>
<p>Emory
.1380 average of their reported range (dont know which year they are referring to, but guessing 2004 or 2005)
.source:
<a href="http://www.emory.edu/glance.cfm%5B/url%5D">http://www.emory.edu/glance.cfm</a></p>
<p>Davidson .we already know their story from Hubbell.</p>
<p>So heres my SAT ranking for Southern schools, including DC & Texas, updated as best I can (& I am assuming Rice & Duke have stayed in their same relative positions):</p>
<ol>
<li> Rice</li>
<li> Duke</li>
<li> Davidson</li>
<li> tie
.W&L, Georgetown & Emory</li>
<li> W&M</li>
<li> Vanderbilt</li>
<li> UVA</li>
</ol>
<p>Sorry I didn't clarify earlier that I was primarily focused on universities and not colleges (W&L is technically a "university" but effectively a college). However, W&M's unofficial SAT average for the 2004 entering class is 1380 which puts it at or above Davidson, Emory, Georgetown and W&L. W&M's acceptance rate is also going to fall from 34% to 28% in the next released data set which should push W&M into top 15 selectivity in the next USN&WR issue. The recent privatization initiative, accelerating endowment and rising Northern Virginia college-age trend are pushing these developments not to mention the fact that W&M is the closest thing the South has to an ancient school (I think W&L is the next oldest and it is 50 years or so younger). I have the utmost respect for Davidson and W&L but they are going to have to grow or die as the diversified university model descends upon American society.</p>
<p>P.S. W&M's entering class rank for 2004 is also expected to be 90% in the 1st decile of their respective high schools.</p>
<p>I stand corrected. Davidson's SAT score average is in the low 1400s. Again, I was talking mostly about comparable "universities," though.</p>
<p>Interesting and meaningful way to assess quality. I think SAT scores are the best single indicator of quality. Interpreting the rankings created this way is not simple, though. National Universities consist of several colleges, some of which may be very different from an LAC. LACs are comparable to the Arts and Sciences Colleges within a University. State Universities are obligated to favor in-state applicants, thereby restricting the pool of applicants. Cal Tech and MIT might be more comparable to the Engineering colleges at other universities. National Universities are more diverse that National LACs. LACs are more homogeneous. Some National Universities have schools of communication, agriculture, and so on. It is difficult to get SAT data on the specific colleges within a university. Nevertheless, I think the sum of the 25th and 75th percentile is an interesting and useful metric.</p>
<p>Keep in mind that certain states (California, Texas, Massachusetts, New York and Virginia) have large populations of exceedingly qualified students so the flagship publics don't necessarily suffer a true "pool restriction." I'm not including Florida in the above since that state suffers from an extreme, anti-intellectual environment (I can say that since I grew up there).</p>
<p>Southernboy-- what is your source for the W&M 1380 entering class score?.....I couldn't find that info on their web site, just historic #'s.</p>
<p>2003 entering class average SAT score was 1350. 2004 average of 1380 was mentioned in a recent article but hasn't been posted to the common data set part of the website yet (US News data lags by one year).</p>