Our school doesn’t encourage students to take SAT subject tests. Now that we are in the thick of applications, we realize that some schools find them important. Her June 2016 score is good, but not a top score. She feels like she could improve it, but she’s running out of time. What’s more important for Princeton admissions? A higher SAT score or Subject tests? At this time she’s registered for SAT Subject on Oct. 1st. Wondering if she should switch to the regular SAT.
In years past, a student’s SAT (or translated ACT) and SAT Subject Test scores were equally important for admission to Princeton and the rest of the ivy league schools. However, given that Princeton has made SAT Subject Tests optional, I would think the SAT is the MORE important test these days. It’s difficult to provide a more comprehensive answer without knowing your daughter’s exact SAT and SAT subject test scores.
@gibby I almost sent you a PM but decided it was more appropriate to post in the forum. Her score is a 1430. She has a solid resume including national achievements in academics and athletics.
Your daughter may consider taking the SAT II’s in November. That way if deferred she would have those scores to add to her file which may prove helpful.
@Momofthree95: Is your daughter currently being recruited by a Princeton athletic coach?
No.
The November exam is not possible for her to take. Is December too late?
Princeton is not as forthcoming as Harvard, but your daughter should note this from Harvard’s golf recruitment page: http://www.gocrimson.com/sports/mgolf/faq
700 on each section would translate to a 2100 on the old SAT. If that’s what Harvard looks for from a student athlete, it’s a safe bet they want the same or higher scores from a non-athlete. I imagine Princeton wants the exact same thing!
According to the concordance table, your daughter’s 1430 translates to a 2040 on the old SAT, which means her SAT is too low even for a recruited athlete. To be a viable applicant for Princeton, she needs to focus on the SAT and increase her SAT score first.
Once that has been accomplished, your daughter can focus on her SAT Subject Test scores – or just not submit SAT subject Test scores. See: https://admission.princeton.edu/applyingforadmission/standardized-testing
@gibby I’ve read countless posts of yours. I appreciate the feedback you’ve given on my post this morning. Upon reading your advice I called Princeton today to ask for their thoughts. She said they do not have a specific cut off score for acceptance. She would not say whether to retake the SAT or taking SAT Subject tests. She said plenty of kids have perfect or nearly perfect scores, but don’t get accepted. She assured me that it is truly a holistic approach and that grades, course rigor, recommendations and essays play a big role in their decisions. I’m leaning toward suggesting that she retake the SAT and sign up for the December subject tests which will count if her SCEA application is moved to regular decision.
I have no doubt that Admissions said those words, however what colleges actually do is another matter: https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2012/04/09/new-research-how-elite-colleges-make-admissions-decisions
In other words, the HIGHER a student’s GPA, course rigor or test scores, the easier it is for that student to make the first winnowing down of applicants done by every college. Once that first cut is made, other more selective factors come into play (teacher recommendations, essays, GC report, EC’s, and interview report). It is holistic, but with 30,000 kids applying not every kid gets a 2nd, 3rd, or 4th read of their file. And not every student is brought before the full committee.
@MomofThree95 Check out pages 7-8 of the Princeton CDS (https://registrar.princeton.edu/university_enrollment_sta/CDS2015-16.pdf)
In the C9 Section, you get a breakdown of admitted student’s 75% percentile scores:
SAT Critical Reading
790
SAT Math
800
SAT Writing
790
Just to help calibrate,
Psy
^^ The 75th percentile means that 25% of admitted students achieved ONE of those scores but not all of them. In other words, 25% of Princeton admits did not score a 2380 on the SAT. The majority of admits scored less than that.
Just curious, do you have any idea how many applicants get rejected because they don’t meet the basic education requirements? Like 4 years of foreign language?
^^ I’m not aware of any college that publishes that information.
Selective colleges, like Princeton, want students to have a range of academics – a solid workout which encompasses the most rigorous courses available to them at their high school. And Admissions doesn’t view student’s in a vacuum.
When a student applies to college their guidance counselor is asked to fill out a Secondary School Report (SSR) on their behalf and rate the rigor of that student’s curriculum as compared to all other college bound students at their high school. So long as a student receives the MOST DEMANDING rating from their GC, I don’t think it matters if they didn’t complete 4 years of a foreign language. See page 2, especially top right hand section of page 2: http://www.du.edu/apply/media/documents/2012CASSR.pdf
Specifically with foreign language: if a high school offers an AP Language curriculum, selective colleges like to see that a student has taken 4 years of a foreign language culminating in the AP Language exam. Some high schools give students credit for their foreign language study in middle school and skip them ahead a year in high school. Consequently, some students complete the AP foreign language course and exam during their junior year of HS, only taking 3 years of a foreign language. In those instances, I don’t think it matters much that a student doesn’t have 4 years of a foreign language. In other instances, where the student struggled with foreign language and didn’t want to continue their journey, colleges might view that as less rigorous, but again it all depends on what other courses they took instead, and what rating their GC has given them.
My son had this exact scenario and was admitted.
I generally agree with this observation, but not entirely. While I can attest firsthand to their willingness to show understanding with respect to foreign language, it should also be remembered that Princeton and its peers have an abundance of applicants who meet all their recommendations and requirements, and that in some cases the act of “going above and beyond” these expectations might be what puts an applicant over the top.
As an example, I once advised a Princeton applicant who was in precisely the situation @gibby describes above, having completed AP Spanish Language junior year. This student understood that they had fulfilled Princeton’s FL requirement but nonetheless chose to continue their FL studies in HS, and in senior year took the more advanced AP Spanish Literature class. It is impossible to know how much this decision helped their application, if at all, but they were in fact accepted.
To put it another way, Princeton has broad basic requirements that fundamentally disqualify the majority of HS students, but still is deluged with applications from many who are fully qualified in every qualitatively measurable way. In such a case, minimums are not always sufficient.
Good luck and enjoy the ride!
If I’d like to have direct contact with Princeton regarding their SAT scores or some other issues is there an email account I can send to?
@macbethxx I wouldn’t bother them with mundane questions, everything you need is here: https://admission.princeton.edu/applyingforadmission
@psywar Thank you for your help and for the link that I’ve been on countless times I don’t think they would have a problem with my uninteresting questions as long as they’re helping a student out…
@macbethxx I’ve called the Princeton Admissions office twice to ask questions. They have been very helpful and didn’t seem put off by my questions at all. Good luck to you!