<p>Surely someone less lazy than I has looked at college GPA-SAT charts and figured out that some seem to skew in favor of high SATs to a greater extent than high GPAs, or vice versa?</p>
<p>Most schools favor GPA over SAT. What you do over 4 years is more telling than what you do over one Saturday morning. As I’ve said before, some schools are Test Optional - there are no GPA Optional schools.</p>
<p>It can be argued either way. The other side is that the GPA doesn’t mean much because it varies by school and by courses taken. The test is at least a side-by-side comparison. Not that I am a big defender of tests. Plus, if the college wants to go up in the rankings it’s easier to do so by seeking high test scores.</p>
<p>GPA is more important, unfortunately–or, more specifically, class rank is. My college counselor says that if you get a low class rank/high SAT combo, it’ll indicate to colleges that you didn’t try really hard in school.</p>
<p>As a parent of a HS senior at a Nationally ranked HS with low gpa 3.4 but a 2190 SAT, I see the argument that the test score evens the playing field.</p>
<p>When we visited Penn State last month they specifically stated that your GPA counts for 2/3 of their decision. The GPA should stand for more as it is a true reflection of your work ethic over 4 years versus one Saturday am exam.</p>
<p>@mrmom/lulu</p>
<p>what happens on the 1 saturday morning isn’t a survey on favorite ice cream flavors, but rather a test to show what the student is capable of/learned over A LIFETIME. just important to keep everything in context.</p>
<p>Case Western, NYU, Boston College, Emory, Wake Forest, CMU, JHU.</p>
<p>It’s a misnomer that the SAT measures what you’ve learned over a lifetime - it doesn’t, it’s an aptitude test, pure and simple.</p>
<p>Regarding GPA, it’s more correct to say that GPA IN CONTEXT is more important that SAT at most schools. As an absolute, it’s correct to say that it’s a poor measure due to different standards across different schools, let alone the complexities of different curriculum across students.</p>
<p>The two combined are useful in that one shows what one can do over 4 years, the other is a standard against which everyone can be measured. But the test rarely makes up for a weak GPA, at least at the highest level schools. A 2400 SAT plus a 3.0 GPA from even the best high school is unlikely to get you into HYPSM unless you have some serious other factor to make you irresistable.</p>
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<p>For homeschooled kids there are.</p>
<p>GPA isn’t even “most important” for some schools- grades and rigor are higher. Of course most GPAs reflect grades and rigor, but not all. </p>
<p>It seems to me that grades-rigor-test scores-rank are hard to pull away from each other in an holistic evaluation. If grades are high and test scores are not, the student could be a poor tester or the student could attend a grade-inflated school or take mostly easy courses. Conversely if test scores are high ad GPA low, student could be an intelligent slacker or have a very rigorous HS or schedule.</p>
<p>Also now they allow you to take the test as many times as you wish and allow you to take only your top scores from each section. If we are judging which student has the tools to be successful in college the test which is the same for all students is better at determining the students ability, then GPA from very different HS across the country. It is not a factor “it was a bad day for me that saturday” anymore</p>
<p>^&^^+1
@mr-was referring to the act as well.</p>
<p>I will concede that if you are homeschooled, or go to the rare school without grades, then you don’t have to submit a GPA, but you still have to demonstrate you knowledge of the appropriate subject matter somehow. There is no school that allows anyone who has a GPA to not submit it - at least that I know of.</p>
<p>As for taking the test multiple times, that is not an option for some people, even with fee waivers, if you know how to apply for those. Not to mention the problem some people have with multiple choice tests. </p>
<p>As I said before, the SAT is very much an aptitude test for people with a high school education, it is not a test of what they learned in high school. It’s a useful tool in combination with other measures of the student, as a stand alone test it would leave a lot to be desired.</p>
<p>what about the act? it has the same credibility as the sat and is growing in participants/availability rapidly. it’s more centered around what students learned in hs compared to pure aptitude.</p>
<p>The ACT is not centered around what students have learned any more than the SAT is. It too is an aptitude test, just in a different form from the SAT.</p>
<p>AP Tests and SAT II tests do measure what a student has learned about the subject, however.</p>
<p>My thoughts – that there clearly is no right or wrong answer re admissions factors. There are many variables and it is a balancing act of all of them. A lack of strong SAT or ACT scores will keep you out of most highly selective colleges. But there are thousands of other colleges where test scores matter less (and more schools becoming test optional). But course rigor and GPA clearly have a big impact, at almost any school you attend. </p>
<p>ACT vs SAT – don’t shoot me through email, but I have a daughter who took the SAT and a son who has taken the SAT and is taking the ACT. From their experiences, and in their own words, the ACT is “easier” to get a high score on it. They agree that kids who are poor test takers may not do well on either. But the SAT critical reading requires strong abilities in critical thinking and inference … something many of our high school students are not particularly strong in. So students who are naturally good at that will succeed, as my daughter did. My son is very gifted, 4.0 GPA, and yet he can not handle inference well at all… he is a “fact” kid. In his first practice ACT coldturkey he scored higher than what he had on the SAT after three months of prep work and multiple practice tests. He said that the ACT is harder time-mgmt wise … but that the math is mostly “current” math (easier to remember) and requires less critical math thinking, and the reading section is much easier as it is more fact based and almost no inference. The writing is pretty similar. And the ACT science just takes practice.</p>
<p>The two of them were talking about the two tests, and they agreed that they think that a high score on the SAT critical reading tells the college that you have a student who can think and infer and will undoubtedly do very well in college; but that just because you do NOT score well on the CR section doesn’t mean you will do poorly in college (so it is predictive in the positive manner but not in the negative manner). The ACT, they say, may be easier for your average high-achieving studious students who take tons of AP classes and like to memorize facts to do very well on.</p>
<p>My son wishes that he could crack a 700 on the SAT CR but he has only gotten close; whereas on the ACT he can score a 33 on reading after three weeks of prep.</p>
<p>It depends on the college. You can check out the CDS to confirm what they list as the relative importance of GPA and SAT. Some examples are below:</p>
<p>UT-Austin – GPA is “not considered” (they use class rank instead). SAT is listed as “important”, but not as important as course rigor or class rank.</p>
<p>Wake Forest – GPA is “very important”. SAT is “considered if submitted.”</p>
<p>Brown – The criteria listed as most important are course rigor, talent/ability, character/personal qualities, and demonstrated interest. GPA and SAT are both not among the most important criteria.</p>
<p>Also note that many highly selective colleges state that submitting GPA is “recommended”, but not required in IPEDS, such as Stanford and Harvard. Stanford’s CDS indicates that 13.5% of the entering class did not submit GPA, a significant portion. However, I believe submitting HS class record is required. Stanford recalculates GPA, so this distinction isn’t as significant as at certain other colleges.</p>
<p>Note that UT-Austin uses class rank as a substitute for affirmative action. I’m not sure if they use a different criteria for OOS applicants, but it wouldn’t surprise me.</p>
<p>What if a school doesn’t submit GPA and class rank?</p>
<p>this was really helpful, thanks yall!</p>