<p>^ rb3. All you have to do is look at the profiles of past students who have applied to colleges. It's amazing how high some of the GPA's and SAT's scores are and how frequently they are rejected. What is the explanation for this? Obviously 85-90 percent of the people who are applying to ivy league schools are capable of doing ivy league work, so AO's aren't looking for students with high SAT's scores and GPA's but those students who are going to bring the most diversity to the classroom, whether we like it or not.</p>
<p>But look at the applicant pools for these schools. Very often they can choose students who have very high scores and grades and who bring tremendous other things to the table as well.</p>
<p>True, and I'm not denying the fact that a person with 1700-1800 or even maybe 1900 that can bring alot of things to the table will get into Yale. I'm simply saying it's ridiculous how many threads I've seen with people worry about whether or not a 2300 will mean they will be rejected from Yale. I think anyone with 2100+ SAT pretty much satisfies the SAT requirement. Obviously a 2400 will give that student an extra look because of such a strong score but it doesn't necessarily mean admission.</p>
<p>I agree with you that people view SATs the wrong way. However, I would argue that the higher your SAT, the more favorably the admissions office looks at your application. In other words, a 2350 is better than a 2300, but a 2300 is still pretty damn good. Below 2000, though, I think you might run into some problems unless you are absolutely outstanding on the rest of your application.</p>
<p>Standardized tests are a stigma on our education. Studies have shown that SAT's and the ACT are not a good way to callibrate one's intelligence as they are incomplete. What they lack is all that is intelligence. For really what is intelligence. Is it a number, or rather a set of skills acquired given the conditions of your environment, your genes, and your upbringing- my take on it. Is there a test out there that can accurately test that>? How can the SAT test your musical or artistic intelligence? It can't and it isn't a good predictor of future success in college. Therefore I don't believe that schools like Yale place that much emphasis on tests. They merely serve as a checker to validate that you are within the average of acceptees' scores.
Diversity seems to be the determining factor as they seek to fill a class of smart students with diverse experiences. These different students with unique perspectives on the world are what help you to develop an intelligent viewpoint of life and moreover aid in your maturity.
sorry long post- good subject though.</p>
<p>completely pointless thread. why are you reiterating two facts we all know?
1. 2400 won't gain anyone admission
2. 2000 won't bar anyone from admission</p>
<p>as long as you're convinced that if you get rejected it won't be b/c of SAT, it's all good, right?</p>
<p>It's not a pointless thread. I find this kind of stuff interesting to talk about. If you don't want to talk about or find it's pointless, then why waste your time reading it/posting on it. </p>
<p>Khaki, I don't think the higher your SAT's are the more "favorable" they look upon your application. Rather, I think the higher your SAT's are the more look your application will get because from your SAT's it seems you're a very strong student. Vice versa for a lower SAT applicant.</p>
<p>^^ How is that different from being favored? You just reiterated the fact that AO's will spend more time on kids with higher scores, which I consider favorable. </p>
<p>I agree with freesia - what's the point of this thread? To reassure you that your 2090 is okay? It seems like you don't want to debate how much scores matter, you just want to hear that you'll be okay with what you got. Personally I think the break down would be like:</p>
<p>Transcript - 30%
Teacher rec's -20%
Essays - 20%
EC's -15%
Test scores - 15%</p>
<p>Test scores obviously matter, or they wouldn't be mandatory. They don't stop AO's from looking at your application altogether, but in the end, if there's a student exactly like you, from race to GPA to extra curricular's, but that kid's got a 2300 to you 2290, they're going to pick the other kid.</p>
<p>@ChaoticOrder : Exactly. ;)</p>
<p>^</p>
<p>2090 was from one sitting, super scored I am higher however. Personally, I don't need people to back my reasoning to make me feel better, regardless of anyone's opinion on CC, it has little impact on Yale's decision. Therefore, the only reason I could possible be introducing this subject is the fact that I find it interesting to talk about. I find a correlation between those supporting the "relevance and overdue importance" of SAT's and those with high SAT's scores. I find it quite ironic. </p>
<p>To address your statistic break down, I've read from numerous AO books that the transcript accounts for approximately 60-70 percent of the academic decision (with standardized tests and other academic insight accounting for the rest). Obviously those with lower GPA's, a weak rigor in their course selection, and weak overall grades will not get into a school like Yale despite their high SAT's scores. However, those with a weaker SAT scores but a very strong transcript are still considered but are at a disadvantage to those with both high SAT's and GPA's. But as squaregirl mentioned, the top colleges see so many kids with tons of academic potential so they must use something else to distinguish the individual candidate. (Thereby, the essay and other diversifying factors). </p>
<p>I would disagree with your point that two candidates with very similar attributes but one with 10 points higher SAT would be accepted over the other. The difference of 10 points is so negligent that the simple curving of the tests could account for this difference. TO make a decision based on 10 points (one question) is quite absurd to me.</p>
<p>For fun, replace every instance of SAT/ACT in this thread with GPA.</p>
<p>;)</p>
<p>
[quote]
I would disagree with your point that two candidates with very similar attributes but one with 10 points higher SAT would be accepted over the other. The difference of 10 points is so negligent that the simple curving of the tests could account for this difference. TO make a decision based on 10 points (one question) is quite absurd to me.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>So what you're saying is that if Yale had ONE spot left, and the only two candidates were you and an exact clone of you but the clone had scored higher, you'd expect them to take you? With Yale receiving so many extremely qualified applicants, that's what it can come down to.</p>
<p>Decisions have to be made on the slightest of margins all the time at top schools like Yale. When I visited Yale (and other schools of similar prestige if not similar awesome-ness), they all said that they could easily accept a completely different class and not notice the difference. They could probably even accept a different class from that different class and not notice the difference. So yes, those 10 points can matter.</p>
<p>I also do think that SATs can show intelligence, especially if taken "cold", as Procrastinator and Poseur have said. For instance, I have a friend who's pretty smart but just never does his homework (WoW got to him). He has a 2040 SAT and sub-3.0 GPA. I actually hang out with quite a few slackers like this, and all of them have SAT scores that are much higher than their GPAs might indicate. I don't think it's a coincidence.</p>
<p>Will an SAT score make or break your application? Probably not. But (and this is just me), if I were an admissions officer and saw an SAT score that didn't seem to match up with your grades, I would have to consider further how much of your GPA was a result just busting your ass (not that this is necessarily a bad thing) and how much was true intelligence. No offense intended, just my opinion.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I would disagree with your point that two candidates with very similar attributes but one with 10 points higher SAT would be accepted over the other. The difference of 10 points is so negligent that the simple curving of the tests could account for this difference. TO make a decision based on 10 points (one question) is quite absurd to me.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I'm sorry but it bothered me. It's negligible.</p>
<p>I love how elitist people are on this forum. Does it feel good for you to find errors in other people's statements on a forum? I bet I could parse through all your posts and find errors, but do I? No, because I simply don't have the time nor do I gain any pleasure from it. </p>
<p>Back onto topic, no candidate can be truly alike in any regard because every candidate has something unique about them, therefore I would disagree with your 10 point SAT thing. (Whether or not a candidate shows their unique side is arguable). I don't think SAT's play as big as a role as most people hypothesize because at the end of the day it is just a standardized test that can only say so much. People think that scoring even 10 points higher will gain them admissions into the school of their choice. I simply laugh whenever I read these so-called "chance" (nobody here knows anyone's chance) threads. The fact is if it did ever come down to whether an individual's SAT score is high enough, chances are that person is not going to get into the school--because there is nothing unique about an SAT score... its just a score. Every applicant shares commonality in scores with other applicants. Obviously, the majority of the posters on this thread are the select few of the applicants that are applying to Ivy leagues and obviously like to flaunt and defend their higher SAT scores, but realistically 10 points can't make a difference in an applicant's rejection or acceptance status.</p>
<p>Hm... perhaps I have different standards than most people, but a 2040 SAT score sounds downright bad to me.</p>
<p>Does anybody else feel this way, or am I just an elitist jerk?</p>
<p>My mom would've killed me if I came out of the test with a 2040. But then again, my mother is Asian (and frankly knows I can do better). But it also depends on context. What if the person was not a native English speaker, did really well on the math section, but didn't do as well on the other two (which, you know, are language oriented). But then they have the benefit of the doubt in the eyes of the AO as well as (possibly) a TOEFL score. And as mentioned before, if someone didn't have the same resources as your average middle class kid (time to study, access to review material, etc.) and they came out with a 2040, it doesn't look half-bad.</p>
<p>But no, the tests themselves don't mean much, but they can say a lot in context. Hypothetically, if you are a kid with a lot of resources, why did you come out with only a 2040? Do you generally not do well in either English or math? Do you have a history of problems with MC (as mentioned by a Teacher Rec) or timed testing? Do you just happen to be a student whose more arts or sports oriented? If none of these are the case and if you are a student who's looking to get into a top college, why didn't you care more about the test?</p>
<p>I think it's a different world where I come from. From the very beginning, everything our counselors mention is 100% directed at going to UCs. They never mention the possibility of privates. Hell, about a year ago, I couldn't have told you what state Harvard was in.</p>
<p>And, considering that my friend isn't a native English speaker, comes from the background roughly sketched out above, and is averaging C's and B's at an easy public school, and views CSU Long Beach as his dream school, I think a 2040 is quite an unusual score.</p>
<p>I like the way you trash my score :) Elitist? No - I feel the same way about it as you do. But I'm not a native speaker - as a matter of fact, I haven't studied English for three years (I did it only in 10th grade) .</p>
<p>I know it's not that good, but I do hope that my other test scores will alleviate some of the "2040 shock" :P I screwed up my math though - 680, so no cigar for me anyway. I'm kinda the opposite of a good, well-behaving intl applicant: modest math score with a somewhat higher CR score.</p>
<p>I would say I'm middle class but I don't see why I need to exhaust resources on a single test that has little bearing but a stupid number that people think translates into college acceptance. I simply went in and took the test and got a 730 math 690 crit reading, 670 writing. I don't feel like I need to exhuast my resources or time on a test that doesn't really do anything for you in my opinion. You have every right to disagree.</p>