<p>You are forgetting a) this isn’t a socialist country and b) no one is arguing against health care reform and c) we can’t afford mandated healthcare as a country, unless you want the economy to tank.</p>
<p>It really comes down to a matter of ideals, and Obama is a radical idealist that conflicts with what the founding fathers had in mind.</p>
<p>Go Socialism! It’s already here- stop pretending it’s not. We also have one of the WORST medical systems in the industrialized world- stop pretending it’s great. </p>
<p>The rest of the world is laughing at us because of our health care system. I don’t blame them.</p>
<p>I am waiting until I study abroad this summer in order to buy prescriptions. Why? Because our health care system SUCKS.</p>
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<p>That’s laughable. Maybe you should do some research to find out that many people come to the U.S. for surgeries because it’s a lot better than socialist countries.</p>
<p>And don’t pretend it would get better with government controlled healthcare. LONGER WAIT TIMES AND LOWER QUALITY CARE.</p>
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<p>The founding fathers also had slavery in mind when they created this country. Therefore, I don’t think abolishing anachronistic ideas is really such a bad thought.</p>
<p>[The</a> World Health Organization’s ranking of the world’s health systems](<a href=“http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html]The”>The World Health Organization's ranking of the world's health systems, by Rank)</p>
<p>Rank: 37. </p>
<p>Infant mortality rate: [Rate</a>, Infant per 1,000 live births by country. Definition, graph and map.](<a href=“Countries Compared by People > Fertility > Mortality rate, infant > Per 1,000 live births. International Statistics at NationMaster.com”>Countries Compared by People > Fertility > Mortality rate, infant > Per 1,000 live births. International Statistics at NationMaster.com)</p>
<p>11th highest. </p>
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<p>Only if you’re EXTREMELY wealthy and can afford it- the VAST majority of Americans can’t afford this care. What’s the good of having something if it’s not accessible?</p>
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<p>Show me evidence of this- besides Canada.</p>
<p>Oh, and FWIW: I actually have insurance. But it won’t cover a condition that I was born with (which eats about 1/4 of my parent’s income every year). It won’t cover prescriptions I need (therefore can’t get). And I pay $50 every time I go to the doctor- which is about once every other week because of complications from my condition that I can’t treat because I can’t afford it. Great healthcare, eh?</p>
<p>Socialized health care tends to work poorly in the short run, because there is no incentive to provide high quality service</p>
<p>Government run anything has never been efficient. What makes you think health care will be a big revolution.</p>
<p>Government run schools give a good education to people without 50 thousand dollars to spare.</p>
<p>Government run financial aid allows you to actually pay for college without being super rich.</p>
<p>Government run accreditation organizations ensure that whatever school you do go to will educate you well.</p>
<p>And that’s just the examples relevant to college that come off the top of my head. Would you like to reject all of those things, on the grounds that they’re low quality and inefficient?</p>
<p>True, but government run schools are still bureaucratic and lack funding (even though they still operate on free market principles and are not mandated).</p>
<p>The only other industry comparable is the united states postal service, which is losing billions of dollars.</p>
<p>^ You can replace mail (Internet…). You can’t replace hospitals and doctors.</p>
<p>Bad analogy. But nice try :rolleyes:</p>
<p>They need to do something about the health care issues we have. However, you cannot say we have terrible “care”. I had a friend who lived in France and her father is over 65 and because he’s over 65 he couldn’t get dialysis, so they moved to the united states where they would be able to get treated.</p>
<p>we treat patients here. like if you go into the ER and you’re in terrible shape THEY WILL TAKE CARE OF YOU, they are required to take care of you. however the thing that’s terrible is that they will go after you for money after you leave the hospital…</p>
<p>it just comes down to money. if this health care plan goes through then things will go to hell. doctors already are barely paying off med-school loans and if the bill passes then they probably will never be able to pay off the loans and fewer people will want to go to medical school and have a lifelong debt. </p>
<p>we need to make health care affordable, especially prescription medications, but at the same time not bankrupt doctors who are choosing a profession to save lives.</p>
<p>I agree with the OP, but this isn’t a political forum. So go away.</p>
<p>The problem is the current bill doesn’t do ****. It’s just the US Health Insurance Cartel Bill, not a health reform bill.</p>
<p>About the only good thing I see is that insurance companies can’t deny someone for having a pre-existing condition. Other than that it’s simply awful.</p>
<p>We need to strike a balance between the US system and Canadian system. For general health the Canadian (and British) system is excellent. For urgent things like transplants though, I hear nothing but horror stories about the Canadian system.</p>
<p>The US postal service is not a comparable industry. Sure, in the cities and suburbs it seems like it does the same thing as UPS and Fedex: take stuff from a warehouse to your doorstep. But if you live in a small farm in the middle of nowhere, UPS is free to say “no, we can’t afford to deliver that far out; come pick it up in town”. The post office can’t do that.</p>
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<p>So what does that tell you about government run businesses? That mandated programs are not good?</p>
<p>Did you see the last House episode? Wilson asked the saleswoman for some help and she was apathetic towards him. He said “Oh so they pay you by commission”.</p>
<p>The bottom like is we can’t afford it. We just can’t afford adding other entitlements at times like this.</p>
<p>Here’s my view on the bill:</p>
<p>American healthcare is one of the most advanced health care systems in the world. The problems are that a lot of people cannot benefit from it and that it costs way too much. IMO the current proposals won’t fix both.</p>
<p>I don’t feel like elaborating right now. Anyways, if we wanted to cut some costs, congress could start by allowing medicare to negotiate drug prices and allowing European and Canadian drugs to create free-market prices in the US. But these reforms will never happen…</p>
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Yeah seriously - in countries where healthcare is FREE, medical education is also free, you don’t need to take out $300,000 in loans and then spend half your life’s salary on malpractice insurance because more people in your country sue each other than can point to the USA on a map. I’m not against free healthcare, but all I’m saying is if we get socialized healthcare, there had damn well better be a change in the current ridiculous malpractice insurance situation - especially with so many OBGYN’s switching to gyno because delivering babies is too expensive with the ridiculous insurance. I could go on and on about this but it’s not the place for it.
Yeah, I’m also tired of people cheering about the Brits and Great White North as if everything is perfect there. Don’t get me wrong, I realize we need health care reform in this country, but copying Canada is not the way to go.</p>
<p>I want Obama and the Democrats to fail, so I want this bill to fail. The people advocating for a single payer system in America need to move to another country or ****.</p>
<p>People over a certain age are left for dead in countries with a single payer system. Is that what you are advocating?</p>
<p>^ People like you **** me off. Why would you EVER want people in power in America to fail? As much as I HATED Bush and his policies, I NEVER hoped he would fail because his failure would be America’s failure (and, indeed, it was). Seriously, grow up and at least don’t wish the government fails so that you can put people you like in there. It is stupid, stupid, stupid and part of what is wrong with America. </p>
<p>/rant</p>
<p>Oh. Well if this is not a ■■■■■ topic, then OP obviously has no idea what socialism is. You’d think people would be more educated about these things given that this is a college forum.</p>
<p>And for people that say we should move to another country, why don’t you leave so we can actually make some progress? I don’t really mean that–stay if you want-- but these types of people are evidence on how low our education system has sunk.</p>
<p>this is very funny because I haven’t read a single logical argument against healthcare here</p>
<p>I’m just mad that this new reform isn’t strong enough, too many loopholes and there’s no real public option. But at least it’s a start I guess.</p>