<p>What’s funny is that its not even a health care bill, its an insurance bill. If they wanted to fix health care they should have addressed soaring medical school costs, frivolous litigation, changing the fee-for-service pay model, and addressing the primary doctor shortage/specialist surplus.</p>
<p>No, Lurker, the government’s not supposed to actually improve our lives. Just their wallets.</p>
<p>So uh, this thread was started by a ■■■■■.</p>
<p>Nonetheless, health care reform is something we need. It’s not perfect, but it’s a step in the right direction. I have to be honest when I say that a lot of what I hear from the right-wing is scare-tactic rhetoric.</p>
<p>Also, well said romanigypsyeyes. I’m not sure Republicans are as much opposed to this bill as they are to the prospect of Democrats succeeding somewhere.</p>
<p>from what my economics teacher said, some aspects of this arent great, he was talking about limiting peoples earning and such but for the poor this is great</p>
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<p>No one is saying we don’t need it, in fact the GOP has been very adamant that we scrap the bill, take out all the special deals and start from scratch.</p>
<p>And that’s funny, because I had the impression that the democrats only argument was left-wing rhetoric and propagandist stories of people with no health care.</p>
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<p>Read above. The GOP has been willing to cooperate with the democrats. It is the DEMOCRATS who feel so ideologically superior that they feel they have to ram this bill down our throats, cut special deals with certain states, and use these processes that were NEVER intended for how they’re being used.</p>
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<p>Of course it’s going to be good for the poor, do you know what an entitlement program is?</p>
<p><em>FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAART</em></p>
<p>Oh, and how many times are you going to refer to the bill as “being rammed down our throats”. Sounds like you turn on Fox News the second you wake up… That’s pretty much their favorite sentence as of the past year. </p>
<p>Oh… and I just farted in this forum. The dutch oven effect commences when you open this thread.</p>
<p>The only group of people arguing for GENUINE health care reform are libertarians. Republicans endorse marginal measures to free up the health care industry, Democrats endorse more government subsidies and regulations, libertarian economists are the only ones talking about actually reforming the system. Making health care an actual market-based system, instead of the crappy hybrid system we’ve had for decades.</p>
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<p>“I don’t like the way this is going, therefore you must start over and scrap all of your ideas” is not an offer of cooperation.</p>
<p>Tom Servo just smelt my fart.</p>
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<p>Uh, yeah it is. Do you know how big the bill is? How many hidden deals and gimmicks are in it? If the dems are trying to cooperate, then why are they trying to get it passed so quickly, with such a faulty and corrupted process? </p>
<p>The GOP has said again and again, let’s start over, start on something we can both agree on.</p>
<p>@TomServo
Free market economic theory relies on a basic assumption: that both parties are making a free choice to trade, because the other party has something they would like to have for a price that they are willing to pay. If, say, your spleen ruptures, you must go to the nearest hospital and immediately get surgery. You cannot say “screw your prices, I’m getting my surgery from the hospital across town”. You cannot say “ehh, I can’t really afford open cavity surgery right now, I’ll get it once my paycheck comes in”. </p>
<p>So how, precisely, will the free market work, if one of the principles it is based on does not hold true?</p>
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<p>You’re right. The GOP has said that again and again, from when a bill was first proposed. There was never any point where any Republican leader said “okay, I like the idea of this bill, let’s work on it a little”. That’s why the Democrats are using backroom deals and questionable procedures to pass it.</p>
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<p>Yeah, because the GOP did that when they were the majority :rolleyes: </p>
<p>But, seriously, WHAT would the GOP agree on? Whenever they are asked to give a specific answer, all they do is bash the Democrats. </p>
<p>The GOP has been doing this for years “We’re going to do what we want whether you like it or not.” The Dems finally grew a pair and are now doing the same. The GOP, being the minority now and having a actual partisan opposition (because Dems usually want to “compromise” and “cross party lines”) are not whining to mommy that the other side isn’t playing fairly.</p>
<p>Oh that makes perfect sense then. Since the other side doesn’t agree with it we will have to pass it by other means and any means possible because we know what is best for the nation.</p>
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<p>The GOP did this for years. Don’t like it now that you’re on the other side? I’m shocked.</p>
<p>We know what’s best for the nation a lot more than the idiots who think “OBAMMY WANTS TO KILL YOUR GRANDMA” is a reasonable argument, yes.</p>
<p>You would be hard pressed to find the same process going on for something as big as 1/6 of the economy and as fundamental change as health care reform.</p>
<p>^ I wonder how much of the war is a part of our economy… but I digress.</p>
<p>Health care is already 1/6 of our economy, all they are doing is reforming it. Because we NEED reform. Presidents have said this for 100 years. Obama is just the first to shove it through- and good riddance!</p>
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<p>“yea lets give more entitlements and redistribute wealth because thats the nice thing to do.”</p>
<p>Oh, I get it. Ensuring that poor and sick people can get health care is a radical change. But having the government spying on American citizens with no warrant, and torturing people because they have brown skin and might be terrorists? Those are just common sense security measures!</p>
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<p>Erm… yes? I think it’s sad that we’re even debating whether or not medical care is an entitlement.</p>