Schedule Conflicts - APs vs. Orchestra

Parents Forum
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<p>I posted this in the high school life thread, but I guess no one has the patience/wants to read a “boring” schedule thread. Hopefully adults might be a little more receptive.</p>

<p>My schedule for next year (junior year) has some conflicts.</p>

<p>So far, I’m going to be taking Honors Government/Comparative Politics and Orchestra (among other courses). I was slated to take AP Gov/CompPol, but that would conflict with other courses. Although I would be able to take the AP exam and the honors course is essentially the same as AP, only a little slower (so I would have to learn some of the material by myself before the May AP test), it still gives the same weighted GPA.</p>

<p>Most likely the “other courses” that my counselor refuses to disclose before the schedules are officially passed out will include/just be orchestra. This is because there is only one period Orchestra is held, and that period is the same every year, unlike the constant shuffling of other courses.</p>

<p>I have a few questions:</p>

<li><p>When colleges see my transcript and see that I took Honors Gov/Comp Pol instead of AP, how would that affect my chances for admission (since this would not be the hardest courseload possible)? I would still take the AP exam.</p></li>
<li><p>Would I need to somehow tell colleges how this scheduling conflict forced me to take honors, or would that even be necessary if colleges don’t care about honors vs. AP?</p></li>
<li><p>Conversely, how important is orchestra in terms of ECs? If orchestra is the reason why I can’t take AP Gov, I could always drop it. This in turn would open up another space for something like AP Bio. I’m not the best at my instrument, so the only accolades I’ve won/could win would be principal cellist in my school orchestra, participation in a honors city or state orchestra (like All-State), and advancing to state level from the district solo competitions. I enjoy playing music and would prefer this scheduling conflict to not occur in the first place, but I’m willing to give it up.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>Note: I would take AP Bio senior year anyway, but in the end, my taking it this year would allow for another AP course senior year, possibly Statistics.</p>

<p><em>Is AP Gov (instead of Honors Gov) + AP Stat senior year > the EC and easy honors grade of orchestra?</em></p>

<p>I’m probably just overreacting and being OCD about this issue, so your advice would greatly benefit me. Thanks for taking the time to read this.</p>

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<p>As a junior, you have some flexibility. You can take the AP exam and have it count on your application; if you do well on it, it will validate the rigor of your course. It won't matter that you did not take the AP class. Bear in mind, though, that some colleges do not grant credit for AP-Gov. AP-Bio, however, is considered far more highly than Ap-Gov. Am I correct in assuming that you will not be taking AP-Calc? In that case, you should take AP-Stats to show four years of math.</p>

<p>You are modest about your musical accomplishments. They seem rather impressive to me! Is there a way to continue playing music without being in the school orchestra? Continue with lessons and solo competitions? This would show commitment.</p>

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<p>If you are not enrolled in the school orchestra, you may not be eligible for some outside orchestras/honors groups/competitions, including All-State orchestra and state solo festival. </p>

<p>Thus, dropping out of the school orchestra does have consequences.</p>

<p>It's not necessary to take AP versions of everything. If orchestra and the outside musical groups are important to you, that's fine. I don't think you even have to explain it on your college applications.</p>

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<p>Isn't AP Gov a one semester course- as far as it's comparative value for college? If so, I don't understand why anyone would think that a one semester college course spread out over the course of a year will make or break a <em>most challenging</em> schedule.</p>

<p>It does sound like you're really not into the music, if you are even thinking about giving it up because of a government class. If that's the case, don't torture yourself. But if you are going to present yourself in your applications as a huge fan of music, a dedicated musician, music-as-a-passion kind of student...your schedule is going to tell on you if you quit in your senior year.</p>

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<p>It irks me that a GC would not see orchestra, especially for a student who is participating in the extra stuff- all county, solo&ensemble, etc- to be just as challenging as AP Gov. A serious band or orchestra student will practice at least 30-60 minutes a day, and more at certain times of the year (auditions and performances) That's probably more work than you will be required to do for AP Gov!</p>

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<p>Thanks for all the responses!
I will be taking AP Calc BC senior year, but dropping orchestra would cause a gain of that one extra AP Stats course senior year and AP Bio to be taken junior year (both of these courses would take the place of orchestra on my schedule).</p>

<p>The same teacher teaches both honors and AP Government classes, so basically the only thing I'm worrying about is the honors vs. AP designation.</p>

<p>I really do enjoy orchestra, but of late, certain factors, like a general decrease in talent of the orchestra, have mitigated my enjoyment (not to mention this scheduling conflict). I could still potentially play in out of school private orchestras, but I think not attending the class would prohibit me from entering the official district/state competition/orchestras.</p>

<p>I guess so far the consensus is that honors gov would not hurt the rigor of my schedule. Doubleplay: AP gov is technically a one semester course, but the second semester is AP Comparative Politics, so I would be taking honors of both - a whole year of social studies.</p>

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<p>A lot of colleges don't give credit for either AP-Gov or AP-com poly. I think you're safe taking the Honors version.</p>

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<p>AP Gov is one half of the year..and Politics the second half. DD took AP Gov/Politics...full year (at least that is what it is at our school). Now...she would have preferred to take AP Modern European History, but it met the same period as band. NONE of the band members could take Modern Euro...only one class in a small school. ALL ended up in the Gov class (which most of them really didn't like). To be honest, I think you're fine taking honors Gov/politics.</p>

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<p>Here's another possibility: </p>

<p><a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=369861%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=369861&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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<p>My daughter potentially faces the same situation-- we'll know in two weeks. My thinking is take the hardest schedule while maximizing things you like. I do not believe that honors vs. AP will make any difference, at least not for one class. If it matters at all, or if you are concerned that it does, an interview can be an opportunity to explain.</p>

<p>(My daughter is hoping that if there is a conflict she will be able to participate in the orchestra without being in the regular class. She would attend all the before and after school rehearsals and sectionals.)</p>

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<p>I did what mom58 is hoping her daughter can do- played in the orchestra without taking orchestra class, and so was still eligible for all-state, etc. It sounds like you are quite good and an asset to the orchestra, so if this scheduling conflict comes up, it would be worth asking if the school would work with you on this one, especially as you want to take APs instead, which presumably the school also encourages.</p>

<p>That being said, I don't think taking either option would make a great deal of difference to your application. It's really only a question of being able to make a schedule you are happy with.</p>

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<p>My D had a similar schedule problem with music and taking the honors/AP track in her language vs. the regular track. She chose the music, which was the right thing for her, but worried about that "most rigorous schedule" thing on applications. Move forward to Sr year, and a new counselor - D explained the choice she had to make, and counselor was more than happy to check the "most rigorous" box. D also explained the conflict when college interviewers brought up her schedule and classes.<br>
AP Stat is another "lighter" AP course. If you are already taking BC Calc your Sr year there is no real advantage to adding stats. It's a fine course, and if you had room it would be worthwhile, but you already will have a math class Sr year, which is what most colleges want to see.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
I really do enjoy orchestra, but of late, certain factors, like a general decrease in talent of the orchestra, have mitigated my enjoyment (not to mention this scheduling conflict). I could still potentially play in out of school private orchestras, but I think not attending the class would prohibit me from entering the official district/state competition/orchestras.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>My daughter had the same problem (only for her it was wind ensemble rather than orchestra). For the most competent and experienced musicians in a school ensemble, things do tend to get dull during the latter years of high school because the ensemble can't play at the same level that you can. Nevertheless, my daughter stayed in the school wind ensemble all four years in order to maintain her all-county and all-state eligibility (which paid off; she made all-county all four years and all-state twice) and to allow her to participate in the district and state solo festivals. For her, participation in an outside group (which would have allowed her to stay even if she wasn't in the school band) and the school marching band would not have been enough. Also (and this is not something to be considered lightly), for those people in a school musical ensemble who are really good, it's an easy class. If you have a lot of AP, IB, or otherwise challenging courses in your schedule, having one period a day that you can practically sleep through may be a good thing.</p>

<p>There is one other option you could consider, though. Does the community college in your area allow advanced high school students to play in its orchestra? In our area, it does, and probably a quarter of the orchestra consists of such students (another quarter consists of adults from the community, and the rest of the musicians are students at the community college). Playing in a community college orchestra wouldn't allow you to maintain your all-state and solo festival eligibility, but it would enable you to demonstrate your continuing commitment to orchestra during a year when you had a scheduling issue. Also, you might enjoy playing with older musicians. The only problem (and this is what prevented my daughter from considering the community college's wind ensemble) is that community college musical groups tend to rehearse quite late in the evening because some members have full-time jobs, and high school students in many communities have to get up at the crack of dawn. The resulting sleep deprivation can be brutal.</p>

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<p>If you chose to continue in Orchestra, you could easily ask your guidance counselor to explain why you took Honors instead of AP due to a scheduling conflict, when he or she writes your letter of recommendation. This happens all the time.</p>

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<p>I say do what you feel like and ignore its (probably very small, if any at all) impact on college----heck, I dropped Orchestra at mid-year for a silly computer course becausse I had grown to despise the class(teacher was a rhymes with witch) and my college admissions were fine. Though, as twinmom says, having your guidance counselor explain would solve the solution---they're not going to frown on taking a honors course, methinks, if it's for sth you're really interested in(orchestra), though they probably would if you replaced it with study hall :P</p>

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<p>This strikes me as one of those "only on CC" threads. Relax. Assuming that you are taking lots of other AP courses (you must be, or you wouldn't even be worrying about this) I can't imagine that taking one less is going to make a bit of difference. And if I were an admissions officer at a highly selective school, seeing a letter from a guidance counselor explaining this particular situation would simply make me roll my eyes.</p>

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<p>If you're really worried about what colleges might think, all applications have a space where you can explain things. You just need to mention that there was a scheduling conflict... no need for a letter from your guidance counselor. </p>

<p>Another option: Have you already gotten into All-State (etc.)? If so, I know a lot of people who did it once and then dropped their school ensembles. It probably shouldn't affect your chances -- one got into both Harvard and Yale, so... If you get in once, everyone knows you ought to be able to do it again. :)</p>

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<p>Keep the Orchestra, presuming you enjoy it. One of the guidance counselor's jobs is to explain any reasons for courses not taken; many, if not most, of the best students will find conflicts in their HS schedules. I imagine admissions people are used to the lines in letters about substitutions required, but not as an eye rolling event, merely as stating the facts for the record. Since you can take the AP exam with the Honors course and still take orchestra, do so. Consider the here-and-now - which route will enrich your life most? Do not just live for the future, maximize your life now.</p>

<p>I highly recommend keeping music courses in HS since that is probably the last opportunity for most of us to be involved in band or orchestra. You can always take another academic course in college but are unlikely to enjoy the music participation. Music is also a stress reliever and can be a welcome change in the heavy academics day.</p>

<p>Finally, taking one more AP course will not make or break your college admission. Continuing to show diversity of pursuits is more likely to your advantage (probably also expected in the best students).</p>