<p>Until a few months ago, the UNC website said that the Carolina Scholars and William Richardson Davie scholarships award out-of-state students full tuition and $12,000, respectively. This fit with what I'd heard about previous years.</p>
<p>However, recently, the site changed, now saying that both scholarships provide tuition, fees, room, and board. I was confused, so I emailed the financial aid office, and this was the reply I received.</p>
<p>"You are correct, both of these scholarships have changed in the past few months. Basically, both of these scholarships grant the out of state students who receive them temporary in-state status, so your cost and fees are a lot lower. The Davie award grants students about $12,000 (enough to cover tuition and room and board on campus) while the Carolina Scholars gives about $15,000 (enough to cover tuition, room and board, and extra money for books/etc)."</p>
<p>So it seems the site info is correct. Sounds good to me.</p>
<p>As an NC taxpayer, I find it puzzling and somewhat troubling that with two students offered an identical scholarship, the instate one would end up paying more than the OOS one. While the overall pool of OOS students may be stronger, there are definitely some very strong in-state ones whom I would think UNC would to encourage to stay in NC.</p>
<p>Yeah I'm an OOSer nceph, but I agree with you. I live in VA and when I've visited UVA and W&M, a lot of OOSers are upset over various things but as an instate taxpayer, I think the system is fair. I think that UNC should offer full rides to instate recipients if they are offering full rides to OOSers.</p>
<p>Agreed. I think this decision, with these particular scholarships, does a real disservice to in-state students. Making the decision to convert these scholarships to a full-ride (which they never were before) for OOS, and not doing so for the in-state student who is offered the same scholarship, just seems wrong. The top in-state students have always been academically competitive with/comparable to the out-of-state students, so--yes--I would hope they would change that to a full-ride for in-state students as well.</p>
<p>Note that both Carolina and Daive scholarships are exactly the same as the last year in terms of money. The only difference is that OOSs can pay for more things at UNC with these scholarships because they now qualify for in-state tution. I believe there are very few of them. 30? 40 schlarships?</p>
<p>I would say it is a very smart move for UNC officials to offer these scholarships to outstanding OOS students if UNC is striving to become a better educational institution. </p>
<p>Besides, all these artificial lines between "our" students and "their" students...
We are all United States citizens. We all pay taxes: federal and state. It is definetely not our fault if public Univesrsity in one state is better than in other one. UNC simply offers a certain solution to this problem.</p>
<p>TanCat: While you are correct that the stated amount for these scholarships (both in-state and OOS) remains the same, I think you may not be seeing the larger picture here. Recently approved NC legislation stated that any out of state student who received a full ride scholarship to any of the UNC system campuses (and that included any full ride athletic scholarships) would subsequently be considered in-state students. Consequently, what that does is reduce the amount of money that has to come out of the Foundation or University sponsored full ride scholarship, ultimately allowing them to make more scholarships, or to use the money that's saved in other positive ways for their respective programs. This also, in effect, allows the UNC system to get around the current 18% cap on OOS. Ostensibly, this will be done without lowering the number of in-state students who will be accepted.</p>
<p>The real point here, I believe, is that the scholarships mentioned above were never (have never been) full ride scholarships, for either in-state or out-of-state students. And even though the monetary award was different for each (i.e., for Carolina Scholars instate $7500; for OOS Carolina Scholars $15,000), the value--monetary and otherwise--was roughly equal. Now, however, it <em>appears</em> that those out of state students awarded these particular scholarships (always partial scholarships in the past) will now fall under that recently enacted legislation. So while the monetary award appears to remain the same, OOS will now--in effect--be given a full ride. Not so for the in-state student receiving the same award. In fact, it now becomes (perhaps) a much less attractive award for the in-state student. In taking this step, it's also important to consider the message being sent.</p>
<p>On a related note, while--yes--"we all pay taxes: federal and state," some state's taxpayers pay more, while others pay much less. NC taxpayers, for example, pay a lot into their public university system, have always chosen to do so, and receive a good return on that investment. That's a positive step we've chosen to make through the years.</p>
<p>Fair enough, though I'd take issue with "In fact, it now becomes (perhaps) a much less attractive award for the in-state student."</p>
<p>It's the same as before; a reasonable in-state student shouldn't value the scholarship less because of changes that dont affect him/her, though t does seem a little weird that they didnt just make it full-ride money for in-state and out. </p>
<p>But on a purely selfish level, this seems almost too good to be true. (not that I'm confident that I'll get one, and not that I don't sympathize with the NC complaints)</p>
<p>gattican:<br>
Yes, you are correct that the award for an in-state student is "the same as before," in terms of monetary value. Yet, the comparable out-of-state student, awarded the exact same merit award, is now receiving a full ride. I would think for any "reasonable" in-state student, that might possibly appear to be a less attractive award and tough to reconcile. As you say, though, it really does seem "almost too good to be true" for the full ride recipient.</p>
<p>It might be nice if someone from UNC's admissions or financial aid office chimed in here (as the ones from MIT do on their site) to explain the thinking behind the disparate treatment of the in-state and OOS students for the same scholarship.</p>
<p>"And even though the monetary award was different for each (i.e., for Carolina Scholars instate $7500; for OOS Carolina Scholars $15,000), the value--monetary and otherwise--was roughly equal."</p>
<p>This is actually not true. Before the mentioned changed, the Carolina Scholars scholarship was of greater value for in-state students than out-of-state students: the in-state tuition is ~$3,200, while the out-of-state tuition is ~$17,000. So the scholarship covered all the tution and extra for in-staters, but did not fully cover tuition for out-of-staters.</p>
<p>Now of course, with these changes, the scholarship is of greater value to out-of-staters.</p>
<p>Anyways, as an out-of-state Carolina Scholar myself, this matter is obviously of great interest to me. Last time I checked my bill, I was still charged $17,000 for tuition, so I wonder if this affects all Carolina Scholars or just new freshmen.</p>
<p>I had heard about making out-of-state students in-state for those with full-ride scholarships - which would be the Morehead and Robertson - last semester. But I was really surprised when I read here that this was also going to affect my scholarship.</p>
<p>lindayanggeo: Yes, I see what you're saying. Yet, none of those scholars was previously given a full ride, as you know. I think, with this new plan, the difference will be even more evident with some of the other scholarships this will effect (i.e., Davie at $5K for in-state, but now a full ride for out-of-state). This is, of course, assuming we are all reading/understanding this correctly. </p>
<p>And, yes, I think we all had heard (understood) that this would go into effect only for those on full-ride scholarships, so this comes as a bit of surprise to many of us. I don't know the answer to your question, but I <em>believe</em> this has already gone into effect for current out of state students (who had received full ride scholarships). I would assume this would be the case for you, but that's just a guess. I'd suggest you contact someone tomorrow, though, just to clarify. Good luck!</p>
<p>One thing that has not been mentioned/clarifed by the financial aid/scholarship website is whether this change in policy impacts current scholarship students or not. This change in policy may have only been granted on a "go forward" basis and may not impact current students on these scholarships. It will be interesting to see how this all plays out.</p>
<p>eadad: Although I thought this had already reverted for the current full-ride OOS recipients (though that obviously wouldn't actually impact those individual students, only the respective Programs), I may be wrong about that. This would certainly have more of a direct (monetary) impact on current partial scholarship students. I agree this will be interesting to see how it plays out.</p>
<p>TanCat: I <em>believe</em> that with Carolina Scholars, about 14 or so are made for out of state students (compared to around 40 for in-state), and with Davie, maybe around 5 or so (don't know how many for in-state). Again, this information is gleaned from/based on past years, so all this may change as well. I feel sure you could call someone at the UNC scholarship office, though, to find out more accurate information.</p>
<p>Just a follow up here. I think the issue with the Carolina Scholars, in particular, is that the awards for in-state students are gifts that have been made by individual donors/alumni, specifically made for in-state students. So to change/increase that award would be very difficult. For the out-of-state student, those specific awards are made from another fund (not from individual donors) as I understand it, and so, perhaps, easier to make changes. I don't know that this adds much here, but perhaps makes it clearer why they can't just automatically increase those in-state awards (Carolina Scholars) to a full ride. They'd have to go back to the individual donors.</p>
<p>S never mentioned to me that his Morehead check was for a lesser amount this semester so I am assuming that he was not impacted by the change, or if he ever wiill be.</p>
<p>Another CC poster contacted me earlier today. Her son is an OOS freshman Davie Scholar. She spoke to someone today in the Fin Aid office at UNC who informed her that this change was voted on by the Board of Trustees and was not retroactive, i.e. it is intended to go into effect for the Class of 2010 and forward.</p>
<p>While I can truly understand this from (if nothing else) a budgetary point of view, it seems they may have opened a veritable Pandora's box with those "other" Carolina and Davie Scholars whose only difference is the year they were admitted. There is going to be much controversy surrounding this action since it has impacted current OOS students as well as current and future in-state students. Sounds like a no-win situation to me.</p>
<p>I'm glad I am not on the Board!</p>
<p>On another front, I also found out today that the Morehead Foundation has announced 128 finalists to compete for 50 scholarships. This is up from the 40 and 43 of the past two years, so evidently, the change in status for these students has allowed the Foundation to again offer more awards.</p>
<p>Thanks. And I just assumed with the current full ride Scholars and athletes, that they would never notice the difference anyway--that it would only be the respective Programs that would be monetarily effected. But I'd forgotten about the stipends, so yes, the students would notice that. (In fact, the stipend could go up?!). Way too many details to contemplate here with these kinds of changes. Yikes.</p>
<p>I agree with the Pandora's Box issue. I also think it's a little sad for the Carolina Scholars program, in particular, as that really isn't just a monetary award; as you know, it has other components to it. So I fear that this decision could create some real tension among the students, which would be a real shame. A divisive move, certainly, and, I agree, a no-win situation. I would not be surprised if -- down the road -- they went back to the drawing board on this one. </p>
<p>That's terrific news about the Morehead Foundation, too. (I remember back when they used to make 60+ awards!), so this is a positive turn.</p>