<p>I agree that UNC is a good value for resident students and that many top in-state students opt not to attend because they would rather attend another elite school. The rich and the poor are financially able to do so with little sacrifice. There are also plenty of very bright students who take advantage of offers from less-desirable schools that will give them a full ride, or close to it. </p>
<p>However, for top students it would be to their advantage to live out-of-state when being considered for Carolina merit scholarships since 25 of those are full ride, and, if the original posters information is correct, 20 of these will include an additional $3000 stipend. In comparison, the most they would be offered living in-state is $7,500. I dont think this is right.</p>
<p>Yeah, and I agree with that. That is why I started my post saying I think instaters should also get the full ride. The only thing I was saying in my second paragraph is that I don't think price and offers from other schools is the top factor keeping bright NC students from going to UNC, which is what a few people were implying in their posts.</p>
<p>For those who are contacting your General Assembly representatives and senators and the University, you may find this excerpt from the UNC-CH website useful. I would also encourage N.C. residents to write a letter to the editor of their local newspaper about this policy.</p>
<p>Since it first became a state, North Carolina has held to the view that an educated citizenry is necessary to a democratic government and that the state, therefore, has an obligation to provide for the education of its people. North Carolina's 1776 Constitution provided: "[A]ll useful learning shall be duly encouraged and promoted in one or more Universities." Article IX, Section 9, of the present Constitution reads:</p>
<p>"The General Assembly shall provide that the benefits of The University of North Carolina and other public institutions of higher education, as far as practicable, be extended to the people of the State free of expense." </p>
<p>While the Constitution provides for higher education free of expense as far as practicable, it clearly is not practicable for North Carolina to assume the expense of university education for all who might come to North Carolina from elsewhere for that purpose. Therefore, while North Carolina welcomes out-of-state students, like other states it considers the privilege of paying in-state tuition rates a taxpayer benefit and necessarily asks those who are not "people of the State" (not North Carolina legal residents) to assume a greater share of the current cost of their instruction by means of a higher tuition rate.</p>
<p>First, please understand that I am not taking issue with anything that you are saying. I just wanted to make a point out that in-state tuition remission, while new to UNC, has been going on at many other public universities across the nation for some time and is certainly not without precedence. </p>
<p>Schools like South Carolina, Clemson, Auburn and UGA among many others regularly utilize tuition remission to in-state levels to help attract top OOS students to their campuses. I am sure that UNC trustees were aware of these examples when arriving at their decision. In some cases these schools also offer in-state tuition remission AND additional dollars, laptops, etc to get the students they really want.</p>
<p>UNC is not offering in-state status to every OOS student, in fact, only a small percentage of OOS students are actually impacted by this decision. The fact that they will not count in the 18% OOS quota also allows UNC to bring in more OOS students who are willing and able to pay full freight, more in total than in the previous equation, so the school actually benefits financially from the increased enrollment/tuition. </p>
<p>The bigger issue is the fact that new in-state Carolina and Davie Scholars are receiving less of a financial benefit than OOS winners. Current OOS scholars are also not getting the additional benefit going forward and many must feel like their in-state peers. This was done for budget reasons I am sure but I have no rationalization for the in-state disparity.</p>
<p>I understand your position on taxes but you must also understand that the parents of those OOS students are paying taxes in their home states and not taking advantage of the colleges and universities available to them. They are in fact subsidizing yet other OOS students' educations in their home states. Every family that chooses to send children to an OOS public school faces the same dilemma. You are not alone in sharing the cost of educating other states' children.</p>
<p>I can appreciate your position because both my children attended Private schools from K-12 while I was paying a very hefty property/school tax to subsidize my local public schools. Granted it was my choice, but my family received no benefit from the expenditure. This is not stated to be argumentative but rather just to illustrate that all public institutions of higher learning share the same conundrum in differing forms and to different degrees..</p>
<p>Thank you for your thoughtful post. As an aside, Ive been impressed from reading your previous posts with how supportive you are of your son, and youve obviously been a tremendous help to many parents and students on this board who want to know more about Carolina. Thank you for that.</p>
<p>Im sure if you were to ask the people of N.C. what, other than the underhanded way in which it was passed by our General Assembly, bothers them the most about this change, you would get a number of different responses. For some, it would be the backdoor means of getting around the 18% cap. For others, it would be that they will be paying higher taxes. As youve probably gathered from my posts, the aspect that I find most objectionable is the outrageous discrimination against in-state recipients in the value of the top scholarships. I find this especially maddening in light of the fact that the in-state recipients are equally and in many cases better qualified than those from out-of-state. To anyone looking at this scholarship policy, it would appear that some of our University administrators despise and take for granted our top resident students, but are falling all over themselves to attract non-residents with similar qualifications for no other reason than that they are from a different state. I find this to be completely puzzling. I know of no other top university that awards anywhere close to the number of full ride merit scholarships to out-of-state students that UNC-CH is planning to give this year. When you add in the out-of-state Morehead and Robertson Scholarships, it is truly amazing. If anyone knows of any other excellent school that favors out-of-state students in this way, please pass that information on to me; my son may very well want to apply there next year! That being said, I do realize that most of these out-of-state students are very bright and are an asset to the University. However, I dont believe that they offer more to UNC than do the top resident students. For me, the fact that I will most likely pay higher taxes as a result of this provision just adds injury to insult.</p>
<p>I feel fortunate, especially as a parent, to live in a state with a strong public university and want to see it continue to be strong and to get even stronger. However, I believe that this change is counter productive to this end. Instead, I think that this will turn public opinion against UNC-CH and will result in the state taxpayers being less willing to support the University, and rightly so. Like you, my husband and I pay local property taxes but choose not to place our children in the local schools. Therefore, we also, in effect, pay twice for their education, so I can easily relate to the parents of out-of-state students. However, the fact that these parents pay taxes to support their own states university system, but choose not to utilize it for their own children, does not benefit UNC.</p>
<p>I am the parent of an in-state freshman Carolina Scholar. I support what the University is trying to do with this change related to tuition, however, I do agree that all of the Carolina Scholar awards should be full scholarships going forward. To not do so was penny wise and pound foolish by the administration and will, no doubt, be repaired. Frankly though, my child, like other Carolina Scholars has other merit scholarships that turn UNC into what is essentially a free ride.</p>
<p>UNC is an extremely fair deal for taxpayers in North Carolina and is accessible and affordable as required by the state constitution. In going to UNC my child wanted the challenge and diversity of HYP and, honestly, in the honors classes and other challenging courses, with a good mix of OOS high achievers, that is what is found.</p>
<p>UNC does a very good job of recruiting in-state kids and making the four years affordable when need based help is needed and does an incredible job of seeking out the best and the brightest for merit help. The in-state tuition for full scholarships was merely fine tuning at the "best deal" in the US.</p>
<p>I don't think it is a time to go to the legislature for change, as I support what has been done, but it is a time to hold the administration at UNC accountable for making the best use of the new authority to offer all full scholarships at in-state tuition rates.</p>
<p>Do not be so bitter and jealous about several OOS students getting scholarships they deserve anyway. There is no real impact on your taxes with so few scholarships being offered. It just so happened this year with new laws that these 25 students appeared to be so lucky. It will change for the worse. </p>
<p>But now just cheer up for them! Excellent OOS students are invited to join UNC-Chapel Hill with full-ride scholarships. Great Event! Reason for celebration! It is a very good thing for all American citizens that the UNC board of directors is capable to see beyond the borders of North Carolina.</p>
<p>Im sure we all see this situation differently depending on our situation, as I mentioned above. It will be interesting to see how it works out.</p>
<p>It is interesting to me that, with extra fundings in hand, they chose to spend them in making scholarship winners from OOS more lucrative, as opposed to offering OOS tuition waver to more OOS students.</p>
<p>My son was an OOS applicant last year. He was a strong applicant but not strong enough to win Carolina Scholar or other merit aids. He applied EA and was admitted into honor program but that was it. He is now a freshman at Rice. If he had the OOS tuition waver as he had from U texas Austin, he probably would have chosen UNC over Rice.</p>
<p>Additionally, by offering more OOS students OOS tuition waver, you would'nt have the in-state vs. out-of-state scholarship issue we see debated here.</p>
<p>UNC-CH is quite an attractive choice for out-of-state students, being the only Top 30 University to charge less than $20,000 per year for tuition and fees. In fact, Carolina charges over $5,000 less than its nearest competitor, and it has one of the lowest charges for room and board.</p>
<p>How would you be feelilng, if you were an OOS who received the Carolina/Davie Award for the graduating class of 2009, which to the best of my knowledge will remain a constant regardless of the hugh increase in tuition, fees, board for OOS. Only to know that had you been born a year later, (graduating class of 2010), the rules have changed, criteria based apparently on date of birth only. I feel confident those students who received the Davie/Carolina Scholarship who were admitted 9/05 would have received the same award had they been born a year later and admitted 9/06. </p>
<p>I would be more than happy to give up my Carolina Scholarship to pay in-state tuition, etc. However, that is obviously not possible. In my state we too have OOS students receiving full rides, taxes are taxes, and the amount that you apparently are in such an uproar about is minimal. </p>
<p>I must agree this new policy is unfair to both instate as well as out of state, but more so to the out of state students.</p>
<p>I certainly understand how both in-state and out-of-state recipients of these scholarships from previous years would feel like they are getting the short end of the stick. As eadad and others have already pointed out here, there will be plenty of people who will feel like they are negatively impacted by this policy, even if it doesnt directly affect them because they see the major disparity between the value of their award and what will be given to this years non-resident recipients.</p>
<p>Where we disagree is in your belief that this policy is more unfair to out-of-state students. My reason for pointing out the tax implications of this policy is not because I am so concerned about my taxes; frankly, the impact will probably be minimal. My major concern is that the families of the North Carolina students are the ones who pay the taxes that largely support the University, and I think that it is wrong that they should get a lesser award than similarly-qualified out-of-state students.</p>
<p>As you stated: "My major concern is that the families of the North Carolina students are the ones who pay the taxes that largely support the University, and I think that it is wrong that they should get a lesser award than similarly-qualified out-of-state students". </p>
<p>In my state we as well have families that pay the taxes that largely support their in-state universities. </p>
<p>I declined admission to a number of universities with full tuition, for a number of reasons, Yes Chapel Hill is an excellent learning institution, etc. but the financial implication was also included in the mix. </p>
<p>Please do the math (tuition, room. board, fees) plus admission qualifications for out of state Carolina/Davie recepients vs. in-stare. I am sympathetic to both in-state and out of state, I do not like to say this but you appear to be closed minded and vocal for in-state only.</p>
<p>I have done the math in comparing the in-state vs. out-of-state recipients for these top scholarships, and their SAT scores are similar. That is why I say 'equally-qualified'.</p>
<p>One would expect that the in-state recipients would pay less overall, which is how it has been in previous years.</p>
<p>As an OOS student awarded the Carolina Scolarship, I guess I find myself at the center of this debate! Everyone's arguments certainly seem valid on both sides, and I don't know which side is right, but I definitely know that I am grateful to have received this scholarship and that it will of course be a HUGE incentive to go to Carolina. Money is a factor for my family, and, considering that our state educational system is horrible and that many of the top schools in Carolina's range don't offer much financial aid, it's a blessing to have gotten this scholarship.</p>
<p>However, with the scholarship packet, I received a letter asking my to "describe [myself] ina a brief statement we can provide to your donor." So is this scholarship coming from an individual donor? I don't know what the legislation in Carolina's been about in regards to tax monies funding my scholarship, but this seems to suggest to me that there are private individuals involved with the funding.</p>
<p>Some of the Carolina Scholars awards do come from individual donors. Others, particularly the Chancellor's awards, seem to come from University funds based on the information released by UNC. However, a UNC administrator said that all full scholarships come from private funds, so this is less than clear to me.</p>
<p>In reading over your post again, I realized that I didn't answer your full question. The taxpayers of North Carolina subsidize the cost of attendance to UNC-CH for each in-state student by an amount of around $14,000 per year. This is why tuition for out-of-state students is so much higher. Therefore, by giving non-resident students resident status, they will be included in the in-state pool of students who will be subsidized. The full scholarships will pay the tuition, fees, room, and board charges that resident students would pay.</p>
<p>I am starting to worry a little with how bitter some of you are.</p>
<p>Not the greatest attitudes for folks that have such a great school to go to. If I were is, there is no question that I would be accepted. Don't you in state guys know that you have it made? As far as money for oos, hopefully, you want a school of more than just in state kids. Would be a bit dull otherwise.
And since every state gives $ to oos applicants, the only difference here is the nc residents are complaining and the va folks, ga folks, tn folks, etc are not?</p>
<p>Why stop with giving OOS kids instate rates? How about letting any student register for classes at whatever college he chooses? After all, they're all paying tuition somewhere. It would add plenty of diversity too!</p>
<p>when you think about it all colleges are giving/receiving $ to students and the out of state vs in state is sort of silly. make it affordable for everyone and watch how amazing the schools would be...i can't go to certain schools because of the $...that works for the rich and the brilliant but what about the rest of us? as far as low income $, that does not work for the middle class. so you have too much to get help but not enough to afford the oos price tag!</p>