scholarship weekends and potential conflicts

Parents Forum
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<p>


Yep. She is. Small school. If we buy her some shoes and a purse to match she'll be Homecoming queen, too.;) </p>

<p>She won't quit basketball. The coach could ask her not to play if she can't commit to not missing a game for other than illness/death reasons, but she won't quit. As to playing in college, D will be a D-3 walk-on if that ends up as her best choice academically. She's undersized and over-hearted. LOL. Without this summer exposure (surgery) she won't get a look before apps are due. Her plan is to pick the school , notify the coach she's coming, send last year's tapes. Let the chips fall where they may. Academics comes first, and she won't get any preference from the school in admissions anyway. She plays because she loves it. A D3 coach asked her once if she intended to play ball in college . She said, "I will play in college. The only question is whether it's for the varsity or intramurals, but I will play ball".</p>

<p>Oh. BTW I chickened out and didn't talk to D yet, but I think NJres is right. Time for the math and band subs to fly a little higher.</p>

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<p>To me, it's the same as her sister getting married or death in the family, an exceptional circumstance. Except missing either of those will not affect her future. Missing this will. Why would you let an disinterested party tell you what is an important event in your daughter's life and what is not. That's a personal matter and they don't get a vote in my house.</p>

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<p>bandit_tx, Let me take a wild guess that you don't have a varsity athlete at home, right? It's obvious we see the relationship between a player and a team differently. I see it as a promise, a commitment. You don't. That's the difference. If D can't promise to be there she needs to tell her teammates and coach before it impacts them negatively. We had a situation this year when kids formed a quartet for solo and ensemble contest. They made it to region, and "won", and when the time came to go to state one of the girls decided she had something more important to do. Not a funeral, not an illness, an opportunity too good to pass up. She took it and let the others scramble for a last second and mediocre replacement. </p>

<p>I'm not letting anyone dictate what my family does. The coach isn't in control. My daughter is. She controls whether she makes a commitment to the team. The coach has nothing to do with that. Once that commitment is made, until the end of that season-that's that and I'm sorry you can't see that it IS in my family's control. Not the coach's. The coach sets the rules. D decides whether she wants to play knowing those are the rules. I'm sorry to be blunt but in our house-those are our rules.</p>

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<p>Depending upon what schools your d is considering, there may be generous merit aid available even to kids who aren't invited to scholarship weekends. At two top-tier schools that give merit aid, Vanderbilt and Emory, kids being considered for full-tuition scholarships are invited to scholarship weekends. But at Emory, even kids who don't make the scholarship weekend invite may be awarded a 2/3 tuition scholarship as Emory Scholars (think I'm remembering that right). And at Vanderbilt, kids who aren't invited to a weekend as potential full-tuition scholarship awardees may still receive a variety of generous scholarships (up to 3/4 tuition) and be designated College Scholars as well. My daughter had pretty much mentally divorced herself from Vandy when she read online about kids being invited to scholarship weekends (she wasn't) - then opened an envelope with a scholarship offer generous enough to make attendance possible.</p>

<p>At schools like WUSTL and Duke, things could be very different. At Duke especially, merit aid is so rare that to miss the scholarship weekend may well take a kid out of the running. Don't know what I'd do in that case. Glad my kids aren't into sports! They do have a really scary ballet teacher, though, and every time they have to tell her they'll miss a class for a school-mandated concert or some such, there's a lot of nail-biting and tooth-grinding on the drive over.</p>

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<p>curmudgeon: If your daughter is in control of all this, then I guess the original question is just you thinking out loud? If, in the spring, a potential conflict arises, then she'll know what's most important to her and make the decision. No need worrying about it.</p>

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<p>Cur-- a voice from the other side (i.e. no more kids in high school).</p>

<p>All this %^&* seems so ridiculous once they get to college. Do anything you can.... short of robbing a bank.... to make sure your kid is in line for any and all opportunities that would make it possible for her to be in the right environment for college. We know kids who made very short-sighted decisions about HS commitments and now regret it... college is a huge prairie filled with fantastic opportunities compared to HS which is often a tiny fiefdom run by a couple of control freaks (whether superintendent, coach, band leader, debate adivsor, whatever) and to miss out on the huge opportunities just to say, "you made a commitment to your team and now you're stuck with your commitment" seems to be short-sighted parenting.</p>

<p>Trust me... your kid is not a quiter and not an opportunist. She's learned the importance of loyalty, sticking with things, being a team player, etc. but to tie her hands prematurely because some coach will have a hissy fit isn't really fair. Some of these awards are life-altering-- they make so many things possible such as research assistantships, grad school, fellowships, fully funded foreign travel- in addition to the money (which is substantial). Don't cheat her out of that for some basketball trophy.</p>

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<p>I haven't read the whole thread carefully but these are the issues as I see them
If your daughter is part of the backbone of the team- she can't take off- particulary when a critical game arises.
If one happens to arise when a scholarship weekend is planned- I would just make my excuses to the college and explain that she has a prior commitment that she will honor.
If it was something that potentially was enough money that it would make the difference between her attending college or not- then that would be a different story- but we have the same rule in our house- even though my daughters presence frankly is not as critical.
If you commit to something- whether it be a year or 6 months- then you do your part- unless you are sick .
There are workables around scholarship weekend- teleconference etc- but no substitute for not letting your team down.
What she learns by keeping to a committment- is worth more IMO than a merit scholarship
( you match bags to your shoes?- What goes with Chaco sandals?)</p>

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<p>It's starting to sound like you've made up your mind as to what you think is the right way to handle it. </p>

<p>These conflicts happen within sports, too. A winning relay team didn't go on to compete at the next level because one of the members (with legitimate Olympic aspirations) would have had back to back events. A mother of one of the other relay members told me the girls understood it was a choice that girl had to make and they were all right about it. I think they understood they got where they did because of her contributions. That other race was extremely important to the girl.</p>

<p>You mentioned making a commitment and sticking with it, but injuries do happen (as well as other things we can't anticipate) - the best you can do is commit based on what you know today. I'd personally have a hard time foregoing tens of thousands of dollars in merit aid because of a high school sporting event. That's my personal take. I tend to look to the future and realize attendance at a scholarship weekend is no guarantee. You could even dream up some scarier scenarios - what if something happened to you in the next four years and you couldn't provide ANY financial assistance to your child. Would you regret then that she had honored a commitment (which some might argue is to the season, not necessarily to playoffs since no one knows going in whether the team will go that far) to a high school team instead of planning for her future security? </p>

<p>Fire when ready. I'm wearing replicas of Wonder Woman's bullet deflecting bracelets.</p>

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<p>I guess the thing would be to look for outside scholarships- and schools that met 100% of need based aid.( if heaven forfend something happened to curmudge and he wasn't able to meet his financial obligations wouldn't need based aid kick in?- we found aid offices to be very flexible when circumstances change)
A student which qualifies for merit aid from a college- in our experience not as plentiful as commonly though- certainly will qualify for merit aid from other sources.
First place to look is public library- they often have binders full of local scholarships
2nd place is organizations your family is affliated with.
& of course wouldn't she be eligible for athletic scholarships?</p>

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<p>Having just gone through the experience I agree with some of the above sentiments. Some schools may cut you some slack on attending these weekends, but most will not. If not in the running for full rides (no invite for weekend), they may still offer participation in the Scholars program and partial tuition. Just this participation in Scholars programs is still very worthwhile since it offers the benefits described by blossom plus many more like priority housing, registration, seminars, focus programs, contacts with profs and many more.</p>

<p>I know for a fact that Duke and WashU have no flexibility on participation. Either attend or you will not be considered. The same goes for some outside programs like Coca Cola. They tell you the rules up front and then it is up to you if you want to play or not. I am sure that some schools may not be quite so rigid in regard to attendance - so check with the schools scholar program administrators.</p>

<p>In reagard to rules, I also understand curmudgeon's position, since our experience also involved an athlete. I understand the coach laying out the rules at the start of the season - and then the student has a choice. At the same time we "laid out our position" at the start of the season. There will be total participation with the exception of potential conflict with scholarship programs. If the coach could not understand the potential importance of considerable merit assistance for college, then he really did not have the best interest of the kids in mind. It was also undestood that other conflicts would not be allowed to effect team participation. It would have been very difficult for the coach to take a don't participate position. That way we had an understanding and it eliminated potential future problems.</p>

<p>Yes, college is certainly a fantastic opportunity that, in hindsight, greatly reduces the importance of high school activities. At the same time I can appreciate the passion for and importance of high school activities, especially during senior year - when you feel your team really depends on you. Good luck with your daughter. I think you will find it easiest if everyone - you - daughter - coach - team - understands the parameters at the start of the game</p>

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<p>C-
I'm the mom of a varsity team captain and fully understand the commitment and all that it entails. I think that if your D plans to attend only her first choice scholar weekend if invited, then let the coach know well in advance and enjoy the basketball season. If on the other hand she is going to chase every offer and has a good chance of being invited to several weekends and missing several games, then she need to discuss this with the coach before the season. In this case one option might be to offer to remain on the team but relinquish her captaincy to a player who is better able to fulfill the commitment. </p>

<p>I would just hate to see her give up the activities that helped shape her into the person she is for a couple of "maybe" conflicts. You don't want her to grow to resent these colleges and this process. I think if she is open and honest with the coach and band director about her intentions and priorities early in the process, everyone's expectations can be laid out and perhaps compromises can be reached. </p>

<p>S had one conflict with a prearranged interview and the last minute rescheduling of a playoff game. His response "there's no way I'm missing the game". Fortunately the college was very understanding and worked around his schedule. Hopefully, you can find a way to make this all work.</p>

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<p>Hi Cur,</p>

<p>I too live in a household full of varsity athletes, some on the national level. What you are fretting over has been an issue in our house for a long time. My kiddos took the same stance as your daughter. They are part of a team. Period. They give 100% or they don't play. My rule from when they were very young. After a while it became their rule. And with 5 of them all playing some sport every season, it became the family rule.</p>

<p>It had nothing to do with coaches, team members, teachers or mentors. They never missed a practice, meet, match or game. They are the ones that can ALWAYS be counted on, always there, and in turn became leaders. Not just on the field, in a pool or wrestling room but in the classroom, in their friendships, relationships with teachers and in their community. The side affects of this led to team captains, class and club presidents, MVP awards.... It showed in their references, recommendations, and scholarship awards. Most importantly, how they viewed themselves.</p>

<p>Kiddos used the perceived and very real flexiblity of scholarship weekends, college coach invites, recruit weekends to gauge how flexible that particular school's administration, financial aid, faculty would be once they got there. School's are going to show their best side in the recruiting stage, what happens afterwards is never so nice.</p>

<p>Kiddos did their homework, didn't just speak with scholarship people, but with the registrars, clerks, students, any one who might give them some info which might not be so readily apparent to a new recruit. And this spanned from select D3, mid-size D3-D2, big sports D1s and the ivies. DD (newly graduated senior) turned down an ivy for this very reason, spoke with her prospective department and knew quickly it would not work. Specifically, flexibility.</p>

<p>Even with scholarship weekends, kids picked carefully. They knew what they wanted from a school. If the school did not have that, know matter how much money was involved, then, nope wasn't happening.</p>

<p>DD's state championships, regionals lasted for several weeks. She chose not participate in some college events. She had made a committment and stuck to it. And never looked back. She wasn't about to change who she was for any college. And money was a serious if not one of the most important issues for school. But not more important than who she was and what action she takes. College doesn't determine my daughter's future, she does.</p>

<p>My point of view, living with varsity athletes. Who are all attending college with academic scholarships.</p>

<p>Kat</p>

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<p>


:) Sounds reasonable to me. It also sounds reasonable for her to curtail spring activities that have weekend obligations during those months (seems like February and March are the two biggies for the schools she like). A little prior planning may keep the conflicts to a minimum. I do in fact appreciate everybody's opinion. It is nice to bounce it off others.Thanks.</p>

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<p>If she is looking at things like Coca Cola Scholar, check the dates on those as well. Several of the outside scholarships have 'command' weekends. Coke falls square in the middle of admitted students weekend time in April, which I find frustrating as seniors are trying to make their college desicions. I really hope you have the problem to deal with :). The extra funding can make the college period much more bearable on the parents, and much more flexible for the kids.</p>

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<p>Cur,</p>

<p>My guess is that your daughter can call the colleges now, and they will have any scholarship weekend dates already on their calendar. She can verify what (if any) flexibility they have, explaining her potential conflicts. Knowing the actual dates, you can then discuss the implications with her HS coaches, and make an informed decision before the season starts. It will also show the various colleges her sincere interest in them, as well as her responsible attitude.</p>

<p>Speaking from the other side....as an assistant coach of a non-athletic team that went to state last year:</p>

<p>I believe in flexibility. As much as I hoped and prayed our best players could make it to all games and competitions, I understand conflicts arise -- especially Sr. year. My rationalle to players:</p>

<p>If you make a committment, I expect you to keep it -- UNLESS there is a good reason. IF there is a good reason, let me know in advance. Concerts, games, etc. are NOT good reasons. Health (family or yourself), scholarship competitions or interviews which cannot be rescheduled ARE good reasons. </p>

<p>Can it let the other players down? Certainly. BUT to be honest, if the team cannot win at a state competition without that one valuable player, then they would have never made it to that level on their own either. IF the player is that important, then their participation throughout the year is equally important in getting them to the higher level. </p>

<p>I realize it is different when team play is involved, but for some competition, the stars truly make the team. Joining under false pretenses is not advised, but not joining at all, is not necessarily the best for the team (or choir, etc.) either. If I know a star player may not be available, I would practice the team to play with and without them. If I knew an actor could not make a theatre production, either they would not be given a lead role, or it would be double-cast, or there would be an understudy. But it does not mean they cannot participate at all. Knowing in advance (whenever possible) makes all the difference.</p>

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<p>Just a few comments on some of the above. Most Scholars programs offer substantial money. Usually if you are invited to one of these events you receive at least a 50% tuition award and the awards can go up to full tuition, or in some cases full ride (tuition & R & B). From my experience there are very few outside scholarships that offer this level of money. The few that do are a lot more competetive than Scholar awards. (much more difficult to get - since you may be talking well in excess of $100,000 over 4 years.</p>

<p>As for multiple invites to these weekends - don't count on it. If you get 2 or 3 you are truly exceptional and very lucky. Interviews are not the same as these weekends. From my experience merit interviews are a lot more flexible, since they are one on one and don't involve an entire pre set program </p>

<p>Athletic scholarships are very difficult to obtain. Ours was all county but in no way could have qualified for a D1 athletic scholarship. D3 does not offer athletic scholarships and was not interested in any D2 schools. Very few high school atletes should count on paying for school this way.</p>

<p>Curmudgeon I think you will find life to be a lot easier and less stressfull if everyone understands the ground rules right from the start.</p>

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<p>bandit_tx, that is a bit of a twist isn't it? If she has conflicts with scholarship finals, that's a good thing. Like I said , if this was easy everyone could do it. After much checking I can see one almost for sure conflict if she makes the scholarship cut and if her team advances in the playoffs and if the scholarship weekends stay the same (big ifs), but that is it as of now. Taking band and UIL Math Competitions out makes it a much easier "problem" to deal with as there are less potential conflict weekends. I sort of like the "time to let the others shine" spin on those events she may be willing to give up. I'll steal that and say it's mine. We'll see how D feels about it. Thanks, again.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
In reagard to rules, I also understand curmudgeon's position, since our experience also involved an athlete. I understand the coach laying out the rules at the start of the season - and then the student has a choice. At the same time we "laid out our position" at the start of the season. There will be total participation with the exception of potential conflict with scholarship programs. If the coach could not understand the potential importance of considerable merit assistance for college, then he really did not have the best interest of the kids in mind. It was also undestood that other conflicts would not be allowed to effect team participation. It would have been very difficult for the coach to take a don't participate position. That way we had an understanding and it eliminated potential future problems.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I agree wtih SchoolTime's statement above. Any coach who is unwilling to accept such terms, when clearly communicated well before the season, is a coach who does not have the overall best interests of the students as his priority. </p>

<p>High school coaches need to remember that their athletes are STUDENTS first and athletes second. Coaches who can't keep these priorities straight should not be working with high school athletes.</p>

<p>High school sports ought to be part-and-parcel of a student's growth and development as an overall human being. The demands of an athletic schedule should not be allowed to trump everything! Balance is the key. </p>

<p>Sometimes the student-athlete must sacrifice scholarly pursuits for the sake of athletic pursuits (for example, when travel to an out-of-town competition requires missing classes or when there is a heavy practice schedule the week before the calculus and physics midterms) , but turnabout is fair play--sometimes athletic pursuits have to yield to scholarly pursuits.</p>

<p>(SoozieVT's older daughter was a very committed 3-sport athlete who made great contributions to her teams in a small rural high school, but I recall Soozie's postings about her enlightened coaches who kept her overall best interests in mind when dealing with college-visit/sports conflicts.)</p>

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<p>I also like the "time to let others shine" philosophy. Sometimes the best thing a star athlete can do for others is to step aside and let others have their moment in the sun--and who knows, perhaps the replacement will indeed rise to the occasion (or at least have the thrill of her life getting the chance to play and give her all for the team in an exciting game.)</p>

<p>Coaches need to acknowledge the inevitable: winning/losing is a zero-sum game--when one team wins, another loses. </p>

<p>But the opportunities to encourage and nurture their athletes in growing/developing/becoming resilient/ dealing with setbacks and opportunities are not zero-sum--they can be win-win for all.</p>

<p>Also, if all high school coaches have an "enlightened" policy towards their athletes as students first, things should "even out"--in any given game, some school or other will be missing a key player because s/he had a critical academic opportunity schedule conflict--and it should all even out in the balance--as it should be!</p>

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<p>I'm comfortable , finally, that the scholarship interviews (not weekends) can be rescheduled if need arises and that prior warning to all parties can solve a lot of this. If we do our part in minimizing the potential conflicts with set in stone scholarship weekends we'll have done all I think can be reasonably asked of us, and then D will have to make the call if the conflict arises.</p>

<p>Our kids are required to make tough choices all the time based on high school scheduling conflicts and all the territories are carefully guarded by their "rulers", and everything tells me that may not be likely to change at some colleges . D feels very strongly about the need to attend the scholarship weekend(s) if she's fortunate enough to be invited. She feels equally strongly about her commitments to her "team" . After careful consideration, she has said that she will talk to the coach and tell her that if THE "call" comes (and every school she will apply to are schools she wants to attend) and can't be rescheduled , she has to go. She thinks the coach will grudgingly accept that. It will probably cost her the captaincy, but that's a price she's grudgingly willing to pay.</p>

<p>For you sports fanatics, there is a similar situation I can remember-Lou Holtz was coaching college football and in his contract with school A he had a clause that was non-negotiable, and that clause was that he got a free "out" if Notre Dame wanted to hire him. He negotiated it upfront, not like others who just breached their contract under similar conditions would have done. School A still wanted him and he took the job. Notre Dame DID call and he was able to leave school A under the previously negotiated terms. That always impressed me.</p>