<p>yeah i agree with you guys on the initiative thing, i guess what i was really trying to ponder is the potential to abuse it... i mean, you could say you're doing AP whatever but really be doing absolutely nothing... perhaps the teacher doesnt know everything about what AP is supposed to be and is just marking you off for saying you're studying. perhaps there is more to it that i dont know (such as an official online course offered by collegeboard), since obviously i have never done one independently</p>
<p>Oh, the thing is, there are plenty of places who offer it online. My son took AP Composition through EPGY at Stanford, but there are other options, dozens of them. </p>
<p>I think that if the school is offering other AP courses, they're well aware of what's involved in the AP course offerings and rules. But it sounds, honestly, like you heard someone is doing something, and you don't have any information, and you're unhappy about it. You mention earlier "this course wasn't in the course catalog" -- well, you know, there are hundreds of things that kids at any school could do that wouldn't be in an official course list: self-study, online study, college coursework, etc. My son taught himself Latin using an email group, took college evening courses, took an online AP. </p>
<p>As for abuse, well, for juniors and younger, schools often see the AP scores too, and the bottom line is that if you have A's on your transcript but 1-2's on your AP tests, schools can tell.</p>
<p>I don't see how he would get actual grades for it - I know lots of people who decided to self-study and take the AP test in May, but they did that on their own and didn't get class credit or grades. I did an independent study for a class that I couldn't fit into my schedule, but it didn't go on my transcript and I didn't get graduation credit or anything for it.</p>
<p>Yes, it's fair. Yes, there's potential to abuse it, but the teachers/administrators/whoever allowed this trusted the guy. Think about it in reverse: could those teachers prevent this guy from doing it on only the grounds that they distrust him, assuming he's never done anything bad in the past? No. They're going to trust him.</p>
<p>Sounds fair to me - the guy had initiative. I've had to resort to online AP courses because my school doesn't offer any. I understand the desire to want to study something more.</p>
<p>A couple of us did this back in hs...Three of us wanted AP Stats, found a teacher and the school agreed (we took the class senior year, but knew we wanted do this sophomore year, so we got to work---our deal: double up and get through AP Calc BC with a certain score by jr year and you can)...we took the initiative to do what had to be done...it was either this or taken pointless classes. If you want the class you should have made a deal with the teacher about how you'd go about it and asked for a class yourself. Anything you want in life you have to go after yourself...if you havent already learned this(not sure why you wouldnt have) college will teach it to you</p>
<p>(Now at my hs...to take ap stats, you must meet the deal we agreed upon several years ago, a few others have tried to do it since then, but so far we're the only ones that truly wanted it and werent using it as "an easy out" to avoid AP Calc--so far its only the 3 of us)</p>
<p>(It was completely independent study (ie. here's the book and some old practice exams, let me know how the exam goes come May)---zero teacher contact, unless we sought help after school, we were expected to figure it out on our own...definitely made us think more...which was a main goal of that particular teacher and his philosophy on APs (part of the reason we sought him out) and the reason we all scored so highly)</p>
<p>Well, that depends. I'm independent studying, and the counselors would rather turn in their resignation forms than create a class just for the sake of one person. Either your counselors are dedicated, or are not worn out by the system just yet. </p>
<p>However, I don't think it is a question of ethics, but rather one of questionable comparison on more than just your local level. Countless numbers of students struggle daily to achieve their grades in Advanced Placement courses, many of whom are not prepared for the rigor and level of pacing. There is a marked difference between actually dogging several hours per day doing homework coupled with research, final papers, etc, and just passing the AP test. Many promising people lose their entire academic career due to a stray AP grade, while that person risked absolutely nothing and had everything to gain. </p>
<p>Now, what the person may have done may have been ethical in a sense of law, but is definitely not fair when seen in the right context. He certainly does not deserve credit for a course in which he did not participate in or give effort to. The AP designation courses are limited by the College Board to those classes that have met various syllabus and other requirements. Your school has, most likely has met none of those requirements. </p>
<p>In conclusion, I think it is serious BS that someone is receiving credit for something they did not do and if the school administration feels fit to reward him for his so called "initiative", then they are either the biggest fools or the biggest liars in this case. I don't see how different this is from lying on a college application. This is just another sad attempt at embellishing, yet CC'ers tend to take it at face value, all the while screaming for justice on embellished volunteering hours or club positions.</p>
<p>well i think it takes a lot of time and effort to study for and do well on an AP test.</p>
<p>this kid has initiative, yes. if they're listed on his transcript, i have to question whether they're listed on the school profile. because then it just looks like the other students didn't take advantage of what the school offered while this kid did, not that he took initiative. i don't think he did anything bad. i think maybe the school did. but if the course is listed as independant study i see nothing wrong with it.</p>
<p>You don't know the ins and outs of what is required for this independent study/class. Many of you are assuming that the school is giving AP credit just because the kid says he is doing the AP curriculum as self-study. How do you know that he's not being given exams, take-home or otherwise? How do you know that he's not required to turn in papers and homework to a teacher, while doing the class on his own time and keeping up with the rest of his schoolwork? Most "independent study" courses require teacher oversight; why assume that this particular one is any different, just because it's an AP class?</p>
<p>Unless the school is a complete joke, which it doesn't sound like, one must assume that there are some safeguards to allowing this independent study, if nothing else than to preserve the school's academic reputation.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Now, what the person may have done may have been ethical in a sense of law, but is definitely not fair when seen in the right context. He certainly does not deserve credit for a course in which he did not participate in or give effort to.
[/quote]
And just how do you know this even remotely resembles what the kid did? Or did you just assume the worst case must be true?</p>
<p>I'm all for initiative, but...</p>
<p>At most schools AP classes are weighted more than non-AP courses. At our school an A in AP gets a 6.0 and an A in honors gets a 5.0. The school uses weighted GPA to determine class rank, including valedictorian, top 10%, etc. </p>
<p>So, someone who takes one or more extra AP courses could improve his class rank (to the obvious detriment of others' class rank). In some bubble cases a small change in class rank matters a lot (like being in top 10% vs being pushed out, etc.)</p>
<p>Phrasing it as ethical vs. unethical might be putting it badly or strongly, but the school should communicate important things to its students. The fact that independent study for AP credit is available isn't necessarily something you would expect a high school student to figure out by himself.</p>
<p>I think most of you are missing the point of the Op</p>
<p>IF this in an online course, then it should say so on his transcript...what it looks like to a college is that the grade is from a class taken at the school, with the requisit homework, tests, quizzes, presentations, etc that are often required in an AP class</p>
<p>It is not about the inititive, it is about the appearance on a transcript of the class being one thing when it fact it is something else</p>
<p>And if the school is using ITS resources to create this class, etc, then it should be made known to all students the availibility of the teacher and the program, to do otherwise is kind of hiding how the school is spending its time and money, and that is unethical</p>
<p>So, if the school is funding this program, then it absolutely must be made public and available to all students interested to at least be aware of</p>
<p>If it is not, and is an online class, etc, then the transcript should indicate that, not that it is a school class, taught by a regular teacher, to decieve the college in that way in unethical</p>
<p>My Ds AP classes take a lot of research, many long term papers are needed, etc...and to equate the riggor of the class to just studying for an exam is ludicrous</p>
<p>Again, citygirlsmom, why do you assume that there isn't a teacher willing to read the papers, administer exams, just as if it were a full-fledged course, but without the class time? The OP is not the student taking the class. I would be surprised if the OP knew exactly how the class and the credits were being handled. And if the "class time" were on-line but the teacher were still willing to do the above grading and examination, then why should it be treated as anything other than an "independent study"? Just because the kid didn't set the curriculum himself? At my d's school, independent studies can be even more rigorous than AP, because there are fewer resources available and no potential for study groups or group projects.</p>
<p>I think there are a lot of unwarranted assumptions going on.</p>
<p>
[quote]
The fact that independent study for AP credit is available isn't necessarily something you would expect a high school student to figure out by himself.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Actually, I don't think that the independent study "is available"; I think the kid thought it out, went to the school, said "This is what I want to do" and the school is giving him credit. The school may never have thought about it at all. Now, next year - certainly students should be given the heads up about the possibilities.</p>
<p>did you not read BOTH of the scenarios I shared? please....</p>
<p>If the school is creating this kind of program it should be available to more students, not just one....</p>
<p>If the students weren't aware, doesn't that show the school is favoring one student with their resources over dozens of others?</p>
<p>If the school only officially offers 7 AP classes, but yet sets up a special program for one student that is unfair and unethical, sorry but a school has a MORAL obligation to at least have options for all students that it has for one</p>
<p>Imagine if a student said, I want to do a fencing program, and I need one coach, so that coach is there for one student...does that seem right? or should the school say, well, we are starting a fencing program, and if you want, come and try out</p>
<p>So, here is the question- if it is an online course, with their curriculam, how does the teacher now the standards for grading a paper? Or a quiz, essays, etc. And if the teacher created the course, then the course should not just be for one student, if the teacher is not aware of all the standards and expectations in a particular AP class, especially in the hunanities- Social Science, English, then they may not grade as difficultly as they should</p>
<p>I disagree that I am misreading the situation, I have laid out some different circumstances and shown folly in each</p>
<p>And IF it is NOT a school curriculam, that that should be stated in the transcript, to do otherwise is to mislead the colleges</p>
<p>What if somebody took an online course, or several, yet the transcript showed the student was took the class at the school....that is a lie, don't you think</p>
<p>i am saying that if it is an ONLINE course and the teacher is doing whatever, then the transrcipt should at a minimum indicate the online course and who it it run by</p>
<p>If it is a SCHOOOL course, then it should not just be for one student, it should be for more</p>
<p>My D will be taking a class at our local CC this summer, should the transcript indicate where she actually took the course, or should the school pretend it was their own- several kids take Driver Ed and Health through this program, and gee, their transcript will say- Health through City College....what a concept, honesty and being forthright about courses</p>
<p>Many parents and students are not aware that independent studies are an option in our school. The students' GPA's are weighted in order to determine class rank. AP and Honors classes are the only classes that are weighted. </p>
<p>A high performing student who has the opportunity to have more of those types of classes included in his or her GPA would be at a slight advantage in terms of class rank. </p>
<p>For the most part those students and parents who care about such things are very familiar with the ins and outs of working the system.</p>
<p>and people wonder why colleges are only letting kids opt out of a few courses even though they took many more AP classes, some colleges won't let you opt out UNLESS you have actually taken the class at your highschool...wonder why? and it is not just the $$, it probabbly has something to do with not really doing the work when you just take the test</p>
<p>I am not belittlely the test, I think self study is a good thing, but it is not the same thing as sitting in the classroom, writing those term papers, making presentations etc, and most people do realize that</p>
<p>Ah, for the "most part" that is the phrase....a school has a responsiblity to "advertise" all its choices, to do otherwise is sneaking and wrong</p>
<p>many students do care about such things, but to assume that just because they haven't taken advantage of the program one should not assume they didn't want to, it may be they didn't know, so assuming they did is a problem with the school</p>
<p>citygirlsmom: I agree with what you are saying, and it is definitely a problem in our school.</p>
<p>Last year my D asked her school to create an AP Latin Catullus class when no AP Latin classes were offered - (other language classes offered AP classes). She took the class in the same room/time period with the Latin III kids. Her teacher provided study materials, and she supplemented those with some she purchased. This year an AP Latin Literature class is being offered and several kids are taking the class - which would probably not have happened unless she had helped create the AP class the year before.</p>