School is boring, but what can we do?

College Confidential Community
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<p>I think anyone of you, provided you've been at school, have felt at least once in your life this awful feeling of boredom during classes, so much that sometimes you come to tell yourself that you'd prefer to die rather than stay another minute in the classroom.</p>

<p>Being bored at school isn't only something that happens promptly, but something that happens almost everyday. And this is an important problem... It's like the only thing you've got in mind five minutes after the teacher starts to speak is "How long before this class ends?". And the first thing you want to do when you hear the bell is to take your stuffs and get out of there as soon as you can... while the teacher keeps talking "...and don't forget to do your exercises for tomorrow", but of course nobody's listenning :p</p>

<p>I'm saying that from my own experience, and perhaps you won't feel the same (and you'd be very lucky), but I really feel like all I've been taught at school is quite superficial. Like you're in class and the teacher introduces you a definition, a formula, or whatever, and you'll just learn it and try to use is at the right time. And in the end, you'll know quite a lot of things (that you know you'll forget within less than a month), but you won't understand anything... Is it just me?</p>

<p>My point is just that there's quite a problem with the education policy... Many teachers have been disconcerted by their students ignorance. But I don't believe that the main reason is because the students don't study enough and because teachers aren't fascinating enough. I think it's above all a problem with the system, you know... I really think we should question the methods of teaching and the philosophy behind all that.</p>

<p>I'm convinced that there's a way to make classes more interesting, and I would like to look for concrete solutions... so I just wanted to know if anyone of you out there had already seriously pondered about this matter. If anyone had already tried to think of an other education system that'd work better... In short I'd just like to know your ideas to make school better.</p>

<p>Sorry if that was too long ^^;</p>

<p>T.</p>

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<p>I've also thought a lot about this and I think that after learning how to write clearly, read at newspaper level, and compute with fractions/decimals (plus a bit of history/geography/science) no class should be mandatory. Ideally there would be a set of core requirements (everyone takes math) but broad choice within these: accelerated calc if you like that kind of thing, joint math/physics courses, logic; this is basically like college. Something you're interested will not seem superficial. Teachers definitely realize this is the ideal plan but most public high schools have barely enough funding to keep the courses they have going let alone setting up tutorials in advanced Tibetan. A few public high schools, generally in rich districts, do offer less mainstream classes ("Non-Euclidean Geometry", "Art of the Film") but at least at my high school these classes are looked at as the "easy way out" compared to APs and a bunch of people take them because they don't feel like doing BC Calc or AP Lit while top students chug through those APs. in his highly recommended college essay guide, Harry Bauld jokes about most non bread-and-butter classes being "99 percent mental bubblegum". The closest to ideal situation I think occurs at top prep schools. Here are some curricula: [url=<a href="http://www.exeter.edu/course_descriptions/default.html%5DExeter's%5B/url"&gt;http://www.exeter.edu/course_descriptions/default.html]Exeter's[/url&lt;/a&gt;], [url=<a href="http://www.andover.edu/academics/home.htm#%5DAndover's%5B/url"&gt;http://www.andover.edu/academics/home.htm#]Andover's[/url&lt;/a&gt;]. and [url=<a href="http://www.collegesource.org/displayinfo/catalink.asp?pid=%7B64B9493A-93AD-4F27-9D6A-5D24935762B3%7D&oig=%7B631A8A1E-265E-48AA-91D7-39387AC11AEF%7D&vt=5%5DSimon's"&gt;http://www.collegesource.org/displayinfo/catalink.asp?pid={64B9493A-93AD-4F27-9D6A-5D24935762B3}&oig={631A8A1E-265E-48AA-91D7-39387AC11AEF}&vt=5]Simon's&lt;/a> Rock College of Bard<a href="warning,%20PDF">/url</a> takes it one step further by accepting students after sophomore year and awarding an A.A. upon graduation; students then apply as transfers to other colleges. (however, notice that there are always deficiencies; neither andover nor exeter offers a linguistics/philology course). So if your parents are rich, go ahead and apply. :rolleyes:</p>

<p>Seriously though, the problems with public education run much deeper than h.s. boredom for good students. while a curriculum resembling simon's rock's would be ideal at all high schools, not only is it impossible to implement, but it would be a huge waste of money compared to what can be done for elementary/middle school education in reading and math especially in urban areas. I sit through my classes and remember that as long i can read, there is nothing a teacher can teach that I can't learn myself.</p>

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<p>"I'm convinced that there's a way to make classes more interesting, and I would like to look for concrete solutions"</p>

<p>I go to a school that I happen to like a great deal. And to illustrate how I think it can serve as a model for more interesting classes, let me talk about one class I'm taking now.</p>

<p>In 11th grade- where I am right now- everyone takes the same American History class. No advanced classes, no APs- just regular American History. That being said, it's a very difficult class. The thing that makes it good, however, is that it's almost entirely primary source-based. That's right: we don't have a textbook. Almost every night's work consists of reading a historical document- not some textbook summary of dates and events- and doing your own analysis. The classes themselves are mostly discussion, and the teachers will only lecture rarely. The course isn't designed to teach you all sorts of random crap (the reason they don't offer an AP class is because they don't want to teach to the AP cirriculum)- it's designed to teach you how to learn and analyze history on your own. I'm almost never bored in that class, because I'm able to actively participate in it instead of listening to a teacher drone on and on.</p>

<p>And for the second half of the year- throughout January to May- everyone does an original piece of historical research. You can pick any topic in American History (with approval) from 1620-1980 and write a paper about it. The catch is that you may only cite primary sources in your paper. You're not repeating what other people have said about your topic- the paper is entirely you drawing your own conclusions. I'm not totally sure what my paper will be about (most likely topic right now is political cartoons of World War I/II), but I already know that that it's an assignment I want to do.</p>

<p>Sure, this class is difficult/boring for a lot of people who don't like history that much. But for those who care, it's a great alternative to lecture and textbooks.</p>

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<p>Ok I've got some comments to add but I guess I'll do that this weekend... Computers at my school are always taken =/</p>

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<p>I actually switched programs 3/4 of the way through. I had the worst teachers you could ever think of. The were well old, talked in a mono-tone voice and you'd rather see how far you could stick your pen down your throat instead of listening to them. I wasn't at all interested in what they were talking about. I switched programs and I love the program that I'm in right now! The teachers are awesome and the material that I'm learning is definitely much better. :)</p>

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<p>Yay, finally back home! I wish I could have answered earlier but it's impossible to get online on weekdays -__-;</p>

<p>
[quote]
Something you're interested in will not seem superficial

[/quote]

Well, I don't think it's totally true... You know, I like physics a lot. Back in 11th and 12th grade, I used to go to some lectures given by various scientists about various topics. They weren't all interesting but the interesting ones, WOW! They definitely convinced me that physics was something I couldn't live without.
Now I'm attending some kind of academy where I'm doing mostly math and physics. I can tell you my physics teacher bores me to death x_<em>x. And it's not just me. I'd say it's because she's too academic.
Objectively, considering the current education system, she's not a bad teacher at all. She teaches us what we should be taught, she tries to make us understand the various methods to resolve the exercises, etc. But the way she teaches makes it seems totally superficial (she isn't the only one like that). I know it's not that superficial because I've had the chance to see physics from another perspective, but when I'm in class listenning to her all I desperately wonder "Oh my God, is that physics O</em>o?". Because there's a very important thing missing : the connection to the real world! I think it's extremely important to understand the necessity of the knowledge and to know the history around it, because it helps a lot when you know why you're learning something. But so few teachers care about that... So I don't really get it, do they consider that students should find out by themselves? Should it be our own initiative? Because if it is I must have missed a point O_õ</p>

<p>Even before the problem of lack of choice, and the problem of material, I think there's a problem of pedagogy. Teachers are just here to tell us what we should know, but we have to figure out by ourselves why we should know that... And students who asks themselves why can only think "because it's the only way to get good grades so I can get into a good univ and have a well-paid job", in short : because that's what the system wants.
Some parents would be delighted to see their kids think this way, but in my opinion it's being too conformist. If I had kids I'd prefer them to be curious about what they learn, to question the validity of what they're learning, to try to make their own opinion about things... not just accept to learn like a sheep because it's the only way to succeed in society.</p>

<p>It seems like school, well the whole education system in general actually, is mostly based on learning lots of stuffs so you can pass the exams and get your diploma/degree, which is some kind of guarantee to get a job. But how many people who're working now do find indispensable what they've been taught at school, and then in college? When I look back, all those years I've spent at school, I can only see them as a big waste of time.</p>

<p>
[quote]
I sit through my classes and remember that as long i can read, there is nothing a teacher can teach that I can't learn myself.

[/quote]

Yea I had this feeling too, once... I guess that was because my teachers sounded too much like books. Listenning to them or reading books, you hardly feel the difference... Anyways when you get to try to learn something on your own, you realize someday that with a teacher, you could have learned faster. Teachers aren't necessary there to teach your things that you can't learn yourself, I rather think they're here to show you the path, to guide you in the learning process. When you learn something alone, you don't really know where to start, and how to organize your learning. It's more rewarding to learn things on your own, but it's much tougher than if you had a teacher.</p>

<p>mesotired : Your history classes sound really great, that's exactly the way I'd have loved to be taught history!! It describes pretty well my conception of what should be history classes... Are you in a public high school? I'm glad anyway that there's at least on place in the world where they've understood how to teach history...
But as you said, it's only interesting for those who like history. Well that's another problem. What do you do when the students aren't interested and aren't willing to be interested in what you're teaching? Because it's not only a problem of teachers not knowing how to teach, but also students not realizing that they have the chance to learn interesting things...</p>

<p>I started reading "Deschooling Society" from Ivan Illich. <a href="http://homepage.mac.com/tinapple/illich/1970_deschooling.html#top"&gt;http://homepage.mac.com/tinapple/illich/1970_deschooling.html#top&lt;/a>
I'm not sure I understand all he says, and to me it sounds too radical a solution but it raises a quite interesting question. Perhaps in our societies it seems obvious that school is an essential institution, but what makes us think so?
I deeply believe that we can settle a better system than this one but it's not an easy task. And when you're questionning an institution people always look at you as if you were some kind of fanatic. I really wish I could do something though, but what? -__-;
I'd first need more insigths from you guys in order to build up a more objective point of view on that issue, so any other comment would be welcomed.</p>

<p>T.</p>

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<p>school is an "essential institution" because how else are most parents going to be able to work and not neglect their children, not to mention find time to teach them to read and do basic mathematics? I like Illich's idea of an "edu-credit card" in principle but he seems to completely disregard the idea that literacy is essential in this society. Many children in rich communites learn to read before school from their parents and the purpose of elementary school is to sort of help bridge that gap. </p>

<p>About the superficial matter, why exactly are you taking physics? What could any lecturer have possibly said to so completely convince you if you find super-academic classes way too boring? There are extremely boring bits in every discipline. Nobody really likes memorizing six irregular stems for every Greek verb, for example, but people do anyway because of the beauty of the language and its literature. what did these lecturers convince you was so applicable about physics? All that should still hold true and if it doesn't, maybe you can change your major to something you like better? I think if it's your major nobody else is really responsible for telling you why it's important - you chose it. and frequently it's not important. You don't become a better citizen or whatever by knowing the use of the elative case in Finnish, but if you're learning it you presumably like finnish and would learn it anyway because it helps you understand the language further, but that's just my opinion.</p>

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<p>T-chan: no, I'm in a private school. But the primary-source focus is a concept that I think could reasonably be applied to a public school as well: the document sets that the school had us buy didn't cost any more than a normal textbook.</p>

<p>And as for being interested in it... that's why I agree with glowingamy's point about how there should only be basic requirements, and then people should be free to go from there. My school does a pretty good job of this- only 2 years of history, 2 years of science, and 2 of a foreign language are required, so those who don't really like a particular subject don't have to take it too much. You need a lot more total credits- so you still need to be taking a pretty full courseload- but you can set it up to take the classes you want to take.</p>

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<p>T-chan- do you really live in Paris?</p>

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<p>One week, one post...</p>

<p>glowingamy :
I won't deny the fact that school is certainly the best way to give every kid a chance to get to learn basic skills, like reading or basic math like you mentioned, that you can't live without in our society. I know that all parents don't have the qualitifations to teach those things to their children, and I don't question the principle of education for all. I'm just questionning school for the way it applies this principle.</p>

<p>If you want to know, the reason why I'm taking physics is simply because I have this very deep desire to understand better how this universe is working. It's just a wish that started growing in my childhood. There are some things that for some reason you really want to be able to understand someday. You can't explain why, but you just want to. And as a child I often read some articles in the science magazines my father borrowed. I didn't understand much of what they were saying, but there were words like big bang, black wholes, relativity, electromagnetism, thermodynamic, quantum mechanic or whatever, that I couldn't really seize but that fascinated me.</p>

<p>Those scientists, they convinced me to take physics because each time I left the auditorium after their lecture, I had a new understanding of the world and I really felt that I too could someday understand what they've understood. I have a great admiration for those people and I realized that I wanted to be like them in the future. </p>

<p>As for why I especially took this academic curriculum, well that's related to French education system (yes calidan, I really live in Paris) and it would be hard to explain it all. But basically it's said that you can have a very good education taking this curriculum and it's not expensive at all. It will cost me something like $2500 a year, I think. But that's because I eat at school and have a room in the dorms. My school is in Paris and I live in the suburb, at 1h in train from here, but asked for a room here so that I can avoid wasting 2h a day in transportations and focus more on my studies. Those who don't eat here and don't live here would just pay like $200. But this is an other matter...</p>

<p>Anyways, I'm not criticizing the fact that there are, as you said, extremely boring bits in every discipline. Of course there are, and I agree to say that when you really like what you're learning, you won't mind going through those boring parts. But why are you willing to learn even though it's boring? Because you know it helps you understand better something you want to understand. If you take languages, learning all the grammar syntax, conjugation, etc, will help you for instance to communicate with people who speak the language or to understand texts written in this language.
Passion or curiosity alone will just make you want to learn, but it is when you see the applications in real life that you actually learn.</p>

<p>I've already considered switching programs, but I wouldn't know where to go after that. It's not a problem of major, it's really the policy of teaching that doesn't fit with my ideals. And actually, if I had to quit now I'd quit forever this education system that is too nonsensical too me.
If that was just about me I wouldn't be here. I'd be travelling from a country to another, trying to meet scientists and professeurs from all aroung the world, and I'd have interesting discussions with them in front of a cup of coffee, or tea, or whatever. This way I could learn things I want to learn at the moment I want to learn them - because sometimes you don't want to learn anything and I hate having to learn when I don't feel like learning. I'd spend a few time in their labs, if they allow me to come and see... I could improve my language skills -because I love so much languages- and at the same time understand better the world I'm living in. This is the way I would love to study...
But let's come back to reality. Reality says if I want to do that I'd need a lot of money that I don't have. Reality says that in this society if you want to have a guarantee to make a living and not to be economically dependant your whole life, you need a degree. And my reality especially reminds me that my parents had to struggle to leave Viet Nam and come to France so that my siblings and I can have more opportunity for our future. So even if deep inside I'd love to, I've got too much respect for my parents, and not enough courage, to quit and follow my dream. C'est la vie -__-'.</p>

<p>Anyway, isn't there anyone at all who's got the same impression as I do concerning school? Any chance someone here wants to create a new institution with me where learning would be much more fun? no...?</p>

<p>T.</p>