<p>D is a junior this year and we are beginning to research schools. She is passionate about singing, but also developing an interest in science & wants to go into college with both pathways open (may commit to one or the other further down the road, or perhaps in grad school). We live in Southern California so the UC's and CSU's are high on our list, but with the high cost of living here, as well as the high UC tuition even for in-state, we are definitely aware that there may be OOS options that are much more cost effective. She has high stats (SAT 760CR, 740M) and 3.8 GPA, 3 years participation in California All-State Honor Choir, and her senior project next year will be assembling/directing a girls acapella quartet. The process of reseaching, applying, visiting, auditioning is feeling a bit overwhelming right now. All input on the process, or schools she may wish to consider, would be most welcome!</p>
<p>She wants to major in choral music or vocal performance?</p>
<p>Well, she loves both. I wasn’t sure there was a choral music option out there. Is that performance-based, or education-based? She wants to continue to learn and improve her vocal technique, as well as participate in one or more ensembles.</p>
<p>Well, it depends on what she wants to do after her education in music. Perhaps she might consider majoring in science at a school with a good choral group that she can audition for?And she could still continue with private lessons. Plenty of good schools have choirs and ensembles open to the general student population.</p>
<p>I am new as well, but I’ve heard that there are a few schools that are open to double majors in science and vocal music. Perhaps others will chime in. The two I remember are Belmont and Northwestern.</p>
<p>Explore the five year dual degree program at Oberlin where your D would receive a BM and a BA.</p>
<p>@Megansmom - thanks - I think that is the type of thing we are looking for. D knows that she simply isn’t ready to decide on one area at this point. </p>
<p>@Compdad - I agree, I have suggested Oberlin as a potentially perfect place for her, but we are in Southern California & she is pretty adamant about not wanting somewhere “that cold.” I also had to cross U Richmond off the list due to its spider mascot (she is truly phobic). LOL - so we are looking up the West Coast, through the South, and potentially a bit of the NorthEast (she’s willing to suffer cold to be in or near NYC). That should provide more than enough options, I hope.</p>
<p>GertrudeMcFuzz - Understand. Prior to January, my son at Oberlin was wondering where was the winter. And then it set in, hardly seeing above freezing until late March. He was then glad he was in a dorm close to the Conservatory.</p>
<p>Have you checked out Rice? Rice would meet the weather criteria and no mascot problems. Plus, from what I have heard, you can’t beat their science programs.</p>
<p>Houston weather is warm but very humid. While many folks have discussed the ability to double major at Rice, I’m not sure the outcome of the discussions. It is a great school though and uses a college residential system much like Yale.</p>
<p>I don’t know, a lot of the undergrads at UMich seem to be from California and they seem to come to terms with the cold.</p>
<p>There are SOOOOO many good schools she’ll be nixing from the list with that criteria and if she’s working as much as she <em>should</em> be in college, frankly, she won’t be outside much. Encourage her to reconsider unless she’s really comfortable with narrowing her options for voice dramatically.</p>
<p>Were it not for the “cold” restriction, obviously University of Michigan, Northwestern, Peabody/JHU and CMU would be great options for a high-stat science-minded voice student seeking a dual degree at top science schools, as would Oberlin and a slew of northeastern conservatories that partner with area schools.</p>
<p>I agree, kmcmom, there are so many good options in the midwest. Truthfully, she doesn’t want to leave California at all - I am the one who is “gently” nudging her to explore further since I learned that her stats may get her some nice merit aid out of state & the UC’s are really at the very edge of (or a little beyond) affordability for us. We’ll at least take a good look at some of these suggestions. I find myself often getting very excited about a school after reading about it. Maybe this will happen to her as well (once she is out of AP test purgatory & has time to start researching!)</p>
<p>I would be cautious. The OP seems to think that OOS will be cheaper than California schools due to the “cost of living”. All of the schools listed above are not only cold, but not well known for generous merit aid to OOS students or otherwise. And Michigan’s OOS tuition is HIGH. . VP almost invariably requires grad school, as does science. Double degree…probably 5 years under grad and THEN grad school. And if you think that the cost of living is high in CA…you need to learn more about the cost of living in and around NYC. Money WILL BE a serious issue. Of the instate UC’s UCLA has the best VP program, but it is very small and highly selective and as good as her D’s grades are, they might not be good enough for a UCLA music/science double major.
Before making a list.I think the OP needs to clarify her D’s goals. This might be done with the a private teacher.That’s why she might want to consider a great science program at a school where she can continue private lessons and ensemble work. VP Grad schools do not require an undergrad VP major.
FYI Some of the Cal States are producing stellar singers. I heard an extraordinary senior (graduating) soprano out of CSLB two weeks back who I found out was offered full rides with stipends at 3 top grad schools. Yes, a soprano! But CSLB’s science?..(meh).
And Gertrude…you might consider having her teacher enter her in a NATS competition that is more geared towards VP rather than chorus. (All State chorus just does not mean a lot to VP)
That way she can possibly get a fix as to where she is in the local talent pool and also get some great constructive criticism.</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.nats.org%5B/url%5D”>www.nats.org</a></p>
<p>You might want to have a look at Chapman U. With her stats, she would be in line for their highest academic scholarship, $25k. I believe they also stack merit on top of that, so if she were to receive music merit as well, that would bring down the cost quite a bit. I have no idea about their science program, however.</p>
<p>I have also heard some excellent singing at Point Loma Nazarene in San Diego. But, you’ll need to check out the science there, and keep in mind that it is a conservative religious school.</p>
<p>Eastman/U of R would be a great dual degree, excellent in both science and voice. But, they do not stack academic and music merit, as far as I can know.</p>
<p>@musicamusica - thanks for excellent advice. D just competed in our regional NATS (San Diego) & earned an honorable mention (4th place) & some encouraging feedback, so that was a nice boost. And yes, we are painfully aware of the cost of living in NYC, & no schools there have made it on to our list of potentially affordable schools yet. I am still scouring New Jersey, Philadelphia, Delaware etc. as that would allow her some access, but this is not a huge point for her anyway - it would just be a bonus. </p>
<p>@sopranomom - yes, Chapman is definitely on the list! Many members of her school choir have chosen Chapman in recent years & we hear they have been quite generous. D is hoping for a larger school, but she will almost certainly apply to Chapman.</p>
<p>Gertrude—just wondering, but how did you come to the conclusion that OOS schools would be a less expensive option than a UC or Cal State?( D was OOS as an undergrad but instate as a grad.) Only a couple come to mind, UNT which will give you in state tuition if you qualify for merit aid and possibly ASU if you combine Herberger Music with the Barrett Honors program. But I cannot speak to the quantity of spiders at either local. ;)</p>
<p>Check into Cal Poly SLO. Great science, perfect weather and a small but decent music program.</p>
<p>Well, we have calculated the cost of attending UC Berkeley or UCLA at about $32,000 per year (approx. $14K tuition, $14K room & board, $5K for books, transportation, personal). Oops - that is actually $33K. Bummer. Anyway, with her scores she MIGHT be offered a Regents scholarship for $2K which brings it to around $30K at best. </p>
<p>At U of Alabama, her scores qualify her for a full-tuition scholarship. Room & board there is $12000 (high end) + $6K for books etc. & we are looking at $18,000 max. We are hoping to stay under $26K because that is what I think we can do with our contribution + her working a reasonable number of hours. So that’s where I’m at right now…</p>
<p>Also, I’d love to hear what you know about SLO’s music program. I couldn’t learn a great deal from their website. D is definitely interested in this school & it is affordable for us. Thanks so much for all your input!!</p>
<p>I do not know a lot except that D knew a good soprano who recently graduated. Call them…what’s not to like about a little trip to the central coast ? ;). </p>
<p>Hey…full tuition scholarship…go for it!
But from someone who has lived in San Diego, Bama may create more than a bit of culture shock! Also add a few thousand for travel. And if it’s a double major…nix the idea of any outside work. Vocal performance is an intensive time consuming major. That’s why many schools do not offer double majors. Also a double major MIGHT impact any merit aid for music. Is she REALLY looking to double major? Because it will impact cost. More than I think you know.</p>
<p>There are many lower-cost-of-living, private LAC’s scattered across the country that would allow for degrees in either science or voice, OP. Bunches of them! And I will agree with you that, if your daughter is able to stand out in an admissions crowd, those private OOS LAC’s may equate to a lower cost of attendance than your in-state California options. Two things you may have going for you: (a) some good schools are in rather remote lower-cost-of-living areas, and (b) many schools will pay a little extra to attract OOS talent for more diversity. However, this strategy would obviously require your daughter to already be a very scholarship-worthy candidate. Being an OOS applicant alone is not going to do it for her. </p>
<p>Is your D considering that she may eventually want to be an opera or concert singer for a living? Or is she looking more at other fields within music – choral, education, etc, that will still allow her to sing but not necessarily perform for a living? I would say that would be the first question she should ask herself. If she is certain that solo performance will NOT be in her plans, she will have a much wider selection of schools to choose from.</p>
<p>If she thinks that she may want to focus on vocal performance for a living (solo opera or concert work), I would probably suggest narrowing her focus to LAC’s, in warm geographic areas that she can tolerate, that offer a BM degree from a good music program, THEN look for the science element. If a school is in her kind of locale and has both the BM and the BS in science, and if a wide variety of generous scholarships are often available for her stats level, and if it’s a spider-free environment 
… well, that would be a school to more closely examine. If you run into a roadblock with either of those categories along the way (no BM, no BS, generally no scholarships for her stats level, not warm enough, dreadful spider mascots), then there’s no reason to look more closely at that school. </p>
<p>Same thing if she’s fine with a BA music degree as opposed to a BM. Just substitute BA for BM in the above paragraph. (More LAC’s seem to offer BAs than BMs.) </p>
<p>There is nothing wrong with a good BA music program if she is in pursuit of a solo career. It is just my opinion that a good BM program will make the transition to grad school easier and cheaper. She’ll more likely finish her undergrad degree with all the desired grad school “prerequisites” if she does the BM vs the BA.</p>
<p>Keep in mind that if she wants to major in VP, she should ultimately put the Voice Teacher towards the very top of her list when narrowing her search. It’s really important that she ends up with a teacher that knows about, and promotes, good vocal health and good technique.</p>
<p>I don’t know how funky or small or specialized she wants to go. Nobody can begin to name all the possibilities if her desires run in the <em>general music</em> direction with no real aspirations to be a soloist someday. She’ll just have to start researching LAC’s. Without having researched these specific qualifiers myself, I’m thinking of cute, special little schools that offer excellent, personalized educations – like Southwestern U in Georgetown, TX or Hope College in Michigan. St. Olaf’s in Minnesota, Lawrence U in Wisconsin. (Okay, my kids WANTED somewhere cold, so those are the schools I tend to think of!) U Richmond (spiders!). Sewanee: University of the South. I could go on and on and on.</p>
<p>But if she wants to leave open the possibility of seriously pursuing a vocal performance degree, with the possibility of pursuing a solo career, she (imo) should narrow her search considerably to locate, FIRST, a good BM music school that also happens to offer a science degree. (Like SMU in Dallas? Like Lawrence U in cold Wisconsin?)</p>
<p>Do keep in mind: Schools like Oberlin, CMU, Peabody/JHU, and Northwestern are UNlikely to be any cheaper for her, even if she gets in. It has been our experience that the more selective the school, the lower the scholarship offer in terms of percent of tuition. My son received what we were told were certain schools’ very top scholarship offers for undergrad – but the final number was still not enough to make those very expensive, more elite schools affordable. It makes sense – those schools don’t need to pay big money to attract worthy candidates. Other very expensive private schools that are not as well known for their still very good music programs, like SMU, for instance, tend to offer bigger money for top talent, which may ultimately make those schools “cheaper” than your Cali in-state schools. </p>
<p>Again, all of this only applies if your D is considered top academic and/or music talent for that particular school. These schools don’t just give money away to everybody. Naturally. </p>
<p>Also, it has been our experience that accomplishing BOTH degrees is very, very difficult at nearly every school I’ve ever heard of. If she does end up at a small-ish, good school for the scholarships, she will very likely find that her VP music “track” will allow for “Theory 1” at ONLY this time and this set of days. Same for aural skills. And music history. And piano. And ensemble. Etc. Therefore, at small-ish LAC’s, students’ schedules will be dictated to them to a large degree for at least the first two years, and it will likely be logistically IMPOSSIBLE to register for many courses outside of the VP major. Small-ish schools don’t have a need to offer a whole slew of the exact same classes at different times of the day like big state schools do. And so, extra foreign languages, science labs, certain honors courses, etc may be out of reach if your D wants to stay on a 4-year plan. We have also been told by numerous schools that science labs have the SAME inherent problems. At small-ish schools, those science classes with labs may run in a definitive sequence and be offered only at certain specific times. So science labs AND music are much more likely to conflict, we’ve been frequently told. </p>
<p>There’s no harm in her choosing a school where she can possibly do both. But, if she could possibly narrow her focus BEFORE she applies, she might be able to save herself a lot of trouble and choose a school that would better match her long-term goals. Like, if she thinks it will be music, she can still pick a school that offers both music and science but limit herself to “dabbling” in extra science classes. And vice versa if she decides to go with a science degree – dabble in music classes. Or, resign herself to the possibility of a 5-year plan. (expensive)</p>
<p>Anyway, as someone who was in your shoes 5-6 years ago, I can tell you that the search process DOES get easier once you get started. It feels most overwhelming at the stage where you are right now. And, I can tell you that the double degree plan is very difficult to achieve if one decides to fully immerse him/herself in all the opportunities that arise in a good music program.</p>