@cptofthehouse For someone needing a full ride or close to it 20k may as well be a million dollars. If you can live at home that might work but you also may not live close enough to a school that offers you free tuition. OP said she qualifies for full rides at meet needs school which would mean that they have very significant need.
I wish I could offer you school suggestions. However, I wanted to offer support. There’s been a lot published recently about the “scholarship kids” who are at the elite privates. The feelings your daughter is experiencing are common, more common than most of us would like to admit. Being one of a few kids who has to work at the cafeteria in a culture where the rest of the student body can afford leisure travel on breaks is tough, and T20 schools don’t do a great job overcoming those kinds of barriers.
Perhaps, when searching, look for schools with higher percentages of Pell-eligible students and for schools with TRiO-SSS programs. She could find a home in TRIO with students who share similar financial backgrounds as 2/3 of participants must be low income and first generation.
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IF the GC is correct, there are some T20 schools where once you get in, certain majors are very laid back. Whatnis her intended major anyway?
I would NOT suggest NYU as a school that would work well with your daughter’s concerns, even though they have more students than other similar schools in the bottom 20% (about 6%). The majority of kids there are quite well off and NYC is very expensive.
The reality is that most private colleges will have a majority of students that are well off. The NY Times link above gives great information about the economic make-up of many colleges. One school that might fit is University of Rochester, which is listed as “among the lowest” for elite schools (as defined in the article) on things such as family income, and share of students from the top 20%. But even with that, 57% of families had income in the top 20%.
Unfortunately, unless she wants to go to a big public university, the majority of kids at any reasonaby competitive private college will come from families with privilege.
NYU does not meet full need. Maybe there will be the money and maybe there won’t be!
There are tons of wonderful colleges out there. Look at some of the smaller colleges that meet full need…if that is a requirement for your family…or at schools where merit aid will be a strong likelihood or guaranteed.
There are non-drinking things to do in all cities.
What about
University of Richmond
Santa Clara (doesn’t meet full need…but might come up with the money)
Davidson
I agree that full tuition or even half the COA may not be enough. Full tuition award for the very expensive local private for us could have been cheaper than full tuition award at the SUNY schools my youngest had in his list because he would have HAD to come up with room and board at the SUNY which was not inexpensive at all if he had gone there. But then, we were not eligible for financial aid either.
I know a number of kids here who qualify for free tuition at our state schools, and they use the PELL, the TAP, Direct Loans, jobs to pay the room and board costs if they want to go away to school. It’s a tough go for them. Some of them did qualify for “generous” financial aid and did get packages from schools that meet full need, but they still left a significant gap, and being OOS, the TAP money was not available.
I know a lot of kids who made it work at UBuffalo because they could find cheap places to live, ate cheaply, scrounged and worked. It’s not at all easy. But Syracuse, Union, Gettysburg, and a number if other schools still would have been more.
It’s a huge challenge to get a full cost covered award whether it’s through financial aid or merit. The two options my son had in the table that paid it all and then some, are no longer automatic though awards are still there on an application basis. Just 4 years ago, if you had the numbers and were accepted to those schools, you got the money , and the acceptances were automatic too, or so they seemed to be, if you had those numbers.
For NY, near NYC, There are a number of low cost, no cost options for high stat kids . One of my kids could have made money at SUNY Maritime had he gone that route. A surprising number of kids even from high income households choose to commute. $70k+ a year is a lot to pay even for those making a 6 figure income. Some prefer to go to a high tuition private school, maybe with some discount, and commute, rather than going to one of the SUNYs for $25k including room and board.
I just came off a work jaunt in an academic desert where such choices did not exist and where the majority of the kids qualified for free lunch. Any college is a 45 minute commute which means an expense even with free tuition( which there is not, gotta get Fin Aid, state and federal usually ), so I get it. If I were Queen of higher education, Id address that gap first at the community college level. The need is definitely there.
Just a thought for you-
Try not to paint colleges with too broad a brush before exploring.
You can be at a college where the pre-med or CS culture is cut-throat, but major in Classics or Renaissance Studies or Art History and the culture is collaborative, kind, and loving. Same college. You can be at a college where the fraternity and sorority culture is that of endless ski trips and spring breaks on islands, but there’s a core group of kids (sometimes the scholarship kids, sometimes not) who work through the breaks (hey, overtime!) and spend their leisure time tutoring local kids from disadvantaged backgrounds.
That was me, and I had tons of friends from all different economic backgrounds. No, I wasn’t flying off with them to someone’s Caribbean home at Christmas. But I had other friends, who had come from families with less than mine. And some of the kids from most affluent homes lived modestly, worked on campus, knew they’d have to be self-supporting within a few weeks of graduating.
And if there’s such a thing as a “cut throat” Latin or Greek scholar, I have yet to meet them!
You’ve got a chance to do some research and some homework now which is great- and for sure it can’t all be about prestige. But some of the most generous colleges (which also have a lot of rich kids) can be fantastic places, even for a kid getting financial aid. These are the colleges where a professor can pick up the phone and get a kid a fellowship overseas- fully paid, including the kid’s contribution for next year’s financial aid package. These are the colleges where the Dean of Students has a “special” fund for buying a kid a dinner jacket for their a cappela group’s performances when needed, or can cover this year’s health insurance premium for a kid whose family plan won’t cover them out of state.
If it’s a choice between a huge and generous package at a school where there are both rich kids and cut-throat kids, vs. piecing together every semester with duct tape and hoping that the first paycheck on campus comes soon enough to buy books-- make sure your D isn’t cutting off her nose to spite her face.
Yes, I went to college with kids who went to clubs and expensive restaurants on the weekends. But most of my friends were happy with the free movie nights on campus, or the open mic comedy club sponsored by the faculty association (come watch your favorite professor make an utter fool of him or herself) where entrance was free, soft drinks were free, but you could stick a few dollars in a bucket on stage to support a local charity if you wanted to.
Collaborative, friendly, PNW, loads of outdoor opportunities, nice small town, good merit aid, solid academic reputation, LAC, look at Whitman. Others have suggested Reed but from your description of wants, I think it would be too much of a pressure cooker. University of Puget Sound gets rave reviews and would offer your daughter a lot of merit aid. Which state do you live in? California has UCs and USCs that are below TT20 but great schools, your daughter would qualify for regent scholarships.
By general philosophy, I’d say that William Deresiewicz’s thoughts on this topic, as expressed in The New Republic and his book, Excellent Sheep, pertain to your question:
However, other than through the few examples listed, I’m not certain as to how you could directly convert these ideas into an organized college search.
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One of our kids ended up at the school she hated the least — a OOS public university in a nice sized city. U of Kentucky in Lexington. It was the most affordable school (full ride).
Some of the best advice we got before application season was Cast a Wide Net.
What she thought she wanted junior year changed by time she was down to her short list and ready to put in her applications.
Although she was mighty unhappy about where she was going, and although freshman year was full of complaints, she has made the most of it & loves it now.
She would totally understand your kid’s desire to have school be easier than HS. For her, the academics at college have been easy to challenging-but-not-crushing. She discovered a pre-professional major that other elite schools on her list do not offer, and she is getting ready to work on her grad school applications.
Also a mountain lover, she finds the hiking in the area good, even if it’s not The Rockies. The Rec Center on campus offers outdoorsy weekend trips.
Anyways, just adding this to say things often turn out differently than one imagines and often for the better. Cast a wide net! Decide later.
Look lots of places. Don’t rule out lower ranked schools because they may have a great department in your daughter’s major. Don’t rule out State Flagships/Universities until you look at the honors colleges. Look at LACs visit a couple of each type near you to get a feel for what she likes. Then, follow the money. She needs to first see what schools can provide financially what your family can afford. Once you have a list of those narrow a bit and apply widely. Good luck!
I would highly recommend womens colleges for your D. Particularly those in a consortium, Mount Holyoke has a full tuition scholarship and with your Ds stats she’d be competitive for it. There is a very diverse crowd there and women come from all walks of life. The environment is collaborative but challenging. My high stats D is there and the experience has been life changing.
I think the hard part will be making the money work, and that’s the appeal of the top schools that you know will meet need.
My D’s could be described very similarly to the way you have described your daughter, both academically and socially. Having watched my girls navigate college, I’m certain there are many schools that could work well for yours, with academic challenge and many opportunities and a more socially and economically diverse student body where she can find her place, it’s the money that’s tough. State schools tend to not cover everything. Privates sometimes will but she might be more likely to feel out of place income-wise. It would be helpful to know what your budget is. We found it not too hard to get to full tuition, but a full ride is a different story
I’d second the suggestion of University of Puget Sound. Also Southwestern U and Trinity U in Texas. All nice schools near cities, with enough space and reasonable weather to enjoy the outdoors a bit. All offer some high dollar academic scholarships. I know less about need based aid. My D just graduated from Southwestern. Lots of smart, hardworking yet not cutthroat kids who are finding a lot of interesting and exciting opportunities. A couple of others where she’d like the outdoor environment and get a good education are Northern Arizona and Western Washington, but all the money might not be there. NAU has a nice honors college and the setting is beautiful. Small, not tiny city.
My older D attended IIT in Chicago. She really enjoyed being right in the city which surprised me a bit. The school is very diverse. They have a mission to be accessible to those who aren’t wealthy. They offer some great academic scholarships. She got a great education there. It’s strong in sciences, but fewer students in writing and psychology I’d imagine.
There are wonderful opportunities for her outside the T-20 pressure cooker. A person like her will seek out and take the opportunities that interest her wherever she goes to college. There are many schools that will want a student like her. My kids have found great internships, done an REU at a top school, studied abroad, etc. and found great jobs after graduation, all without attending a top ranked school.
Most will not be safeties due to the OP’s financial limits. Only those with good FA or assured large-enough merit scholarships can be safeties. If competitive merit is needed, reach/match must be based on the scholarship, not admission.
In addition, some may not be admission safeties for “overqualified” applicants who do not apply ED (e.g. American), or may be more competitive for specific majors or divisions (e.g. UIUC CS).
I agree^^. The most difficult school to find is that true safety, but nothing is really a match either if you need a lot of money. The schools that meet full need or close to it, tend to be highly selective. Big merit money is difficult to get at schools with name recognition
Seems like the kind of concern that turned one admitted student off of Harvard after visiting (though apparently not an issue at Stanford where he matriculated).
http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/discussion/comment/22235103/#Comment_22235103
As mentioned before, many private schools are quite heavy with students from very high SES families (look up the percentage not on financial aid and consider the amount of money needed to pay $70k per year). However, how welcoming or not the campus cultures will be for students with less money can vary.
But note that even public schools may be skewed toward students from high SES backgrounds. UIUC has 49% not on financial aid, although it takes less family money to afford $31k in-state than $70k.
https://nces.ed.gov/collegenavigator/?q=urbana&s=all&id=145637#finaid
The College Essay Guy has a podcast #115 that features MarK Moody’s Quick and Dirty College List Builder. It is a great visual and shows you some schools known for merit or financial aid base in your test scores and GPA. You May want to explore and check out the schools he features.
I neglected to see she needs full ride. Most of what I stated would get like half merit scholarships. IIT could fetch full ride especially if a CPS kid. They come out getting good jobs at the name brands also. UIC also. She should apply for the big scholarships like Cooke, Boren etc. My son has several of his friends with full rides at schools like Michigan, UIC, DePaul, Pitt etc
Grinnell College
I suggest you have her look at the schools in North Carolina - lots of outdoorsy kids. I don’t think Wake or Elon would be a fit, but maybe UNC Chapel Hill? Remember at the state flagships there will be many middle income and lower income students from the home state.