UNC-CH is one of the few state flagships with good need-based FA for out-of-state students – but it is highly competitive for out-of-state applicants because of that and the limited number of out-of-state students who can be admitted. In terms of middle and lower income students there, Pell grant recipients (from approximately lower half household income) make up about 22% of the students.
Another thought…for a kid that wants out of the rat race, is looking for a warm environment, and needs good FA, NYU is the last college I’d consider, frankly. It’s pretty notorious for bad FA.
Your daughter should also bear in mind that students located in cities often spend a LOT of money in the city.
D, who attends an LAC, has good friends who attend McGill and Northeastern. They spend far more money during the academic year than she does. Like three times as much, if not more. She keeps her spending to about $700 a year, so she’s pretty frugal, but it’s hard to be frugal with all that stuff on your doorstep and all your friends going out to do things. And while her friends are enjoying their colleges, none of them would likely describe the environment as warm and collaborative.
Get a Fiske guide and let your D start reading through it over the summer. That will help her think about the environment she wants.
My Dd with the same stats (34 ACT, 4.2 W gpa (10 AP, rest honors, 2 B+’s), tons of EC (officer in 4 clubs, 3 NHS, varsity lettered in 3 sports, dance, peer leadership) didn’t get into any T20 schools. She did get into Villanova, no merit. She ended up getting top merit awards besides free rides at most of the safeties she applied to, and being solid middle class, no FA. She will be attending a public school, although the private schools she applied to would’ve ended up costing the same.
UVA would fit also…meets full need for OOS students.
The problem with UNC-CH and UVA is that both are very very hard admits for OOS students. Very hard.
U Michigan also has great FA but very competitive to get in.
Rat race not just being held at the top 20 schools.
University of Colorado-Boulder is a great location for outdoorsy people. Same with University of Denver and Colorado College.
Nothing brings up a post count faster than asking for school suggestions. The challenge is getting through the volume of suggestions, many of them random.
That said, I’d start with one or two known-to-be-friendly-and collaborative colleges. (Why not URichmond?) Maybe it’s safety level, maybe you have no idea yet. Start purposefully at the bottom (I mean not Tippy Tops, Tops,) to truly start to learn first what factors do interest her and make her feel comfortable. Get a Fiske Guide to Colleges and also see what schools they call similar. Learn from that. Look at the course catalogs and prof backgrounds, activities, and more.
My kid was cutthroat in Greek, lol. At a nice LAC, with nice kids and a lot of community service awarness and engagment. Her friends ranged from poor, sleeping on a mattress on the floor, at home, to so wealthy that they had a separate large home for the staff. And these kids were friends to each other, as well.
So please separate the fears about some class or caste system in college from the realities. Not every rich kid is a pita, unfeeling, always dining out or shopping. My kids got strong FA (and in their private hs) and never faced this. How do the majority of other kids even know? You may come to decide elite sororities don;t work for her, but there are many scenarios.
And in college, you run into one crappy attitude kid and move on, find your interest group. The pool is larger. The range of post hs interests and activities is larger.
The issue with an NYU is they short many kids. If yours has built up dreams, it’s tough to say, no, we can’t bridge that gap.
Best to you.
NYU is not good with aid, might be a good idea to look elsewhere.
Honors Colleges at public universities would be a great idea.
Some good public universities for her:
University of North Carolina-Chapel Hill
University of Georgia
University of Florida
William and Mary
University of Wisconsin
University of Iowa
Miami University (ohio)
Penn State
University of Washington
University of Minnesota
University of Texas-Austin
Texas A and M
University of Oklahoma
All these public schools are very good, I don’t know what the Fin Aid is like for out of state students, but it’s worth looking into. Also, some schools are eager to have out of state students. You could also look into reciprocal programs…
Many universities, even if they’re not in an area that has ample outdoorsy opportunities usually has a club or group that sponsors hiking/camping trips. If they don’t you can always start and outdoors/hiking club.
Also, it’s true the rat race isn’t exclusive to T20. What is true is the academic bar can be high, once there- but that depends on major.
I could name some far-from-T20 colleges where the social/money expectations are so nuts. But once you start vetting and get the first list of possible visits, you can identify this and guage your reactions.
Some posters make out the volume of wealthy families to be a major roadblock. I think those of us with kids in or through college would disagree.
Though NYU gaps big time, it also can be very generous with aid for the students it most wants.
Yes, but the very rational view is not to get excited until the FA notice comes. BU, same story.
If you’re actually in Chicago, then she’s used to the big, dense city experience, nearly 24/7. Otherwise, NYC can be a lot, for some. Its own pressures.
As time passes, you’ll learn so much more about her wants and needs. For us, just the process refined her wishes. At this point in jr year, she wanted as far away as possible. Big. Big, active, rowdy Greek life. By Sept, it was LAC, all the way, within a drive of home, no flights. Never mentioned Greek life again.
Stanford, btw, can be extraordinarily tough, once there. Imo, you decide on this app much later, maybe next October or November.
I really don’t look at this as a rat race. IMO, the most difficult part is to get a couple of schools nailed down that you know you can afford, that has the courses wanted. The problem comes up is the rat then shows it’s true colors and squeaks that it wants to be in the race because that school isn’t good enough. They don’t like it, the other kids there aren’t smart enough, few amenities, not the band recognition or reputation. But usually you got your schools unless you live in an academic desert which was where I was working this year. Then it gets difficult and you gotta start doing some real searching. Without the know how and the student having pretty good academic stats, it’s hard work. It means looking for schools like New Mexico Tech across the country. There used to be a fantastic thread that talked about finding full ride scholarships here , somewhat outdated in the schools but not in the methodology needed.
Then from there, you enter whatever race you want, however many. You might go for some schools that guarantee to meet full need, some that don’t but you might get great aid from them, schools with great merit. All up to the student.
I would check out Vassar College for your daughter. The climate may not be ideal but it’s in a beautiful area and setting. The environment is collaborative and artsy and there are opportunities to stay involved in dance. Vassar is known for being good with financial aid and is quite diverse, so there would be a good number of students who are not wealthy.
OP here: we’re so overwhelmed and thankful for all the great suggestions! I hope the whole “rat race” thing didn’t offend or paint too broad a brush–I think that being the poor kid at both school and work has her a little emotional and looking for a few more of “her people” in college. The problem is that, as a single parent, I can’t afford much time or money to visit schools to get a feel for the environment.
And as for college itself, we could maybe afford to do the Stafford, my history of health issues makes us both pretty skeptical of much loan debt (thankfully, she’s got a undesirable but commutable fallback). The maximum budget is probably 0-10K, which is why we’re looking for places she won’t feel excluded by her financial status (being the only one to work, turn down internships, etc).
To be clear, she’s still got a few T20s on her preliminary list because they do have some very compelling academic factors and they could very well end up being the most affordable (Stanford, Northwestern, possibly USC?). But both for her personality and the craziness of admissions, we know we need to branch out. And we’ve got so many to consider that it’ll probably take her a few days/weeks to whittle down further.
But she’s, at least after just reading this, really loving the idea of University of Utah, Colorado, and some of the LACs out west like Puget Sound, and some of those in NC/VA like UNC and Richmond. (FTR, she totally nixed NYU when I revisited the topic today). So if anyone’s got experience any of those places, we’d love to hear it!
Thanks again for all the excellent advice!
Utah has some full ride options, I believe. So does New Mexico, or it did.
Hey, class of '23 applicant chiming in here. I was in love with the idea of going to school out west (Colorado, Oregon, Washington, etc.), but unfortunately those state (public) schools tend to be stingy with scholarships for out of state students, even those with amazing stats. I think due to getting so many applicants from in state or that don’t need/want aid. I would recommend looking for some private/LACs out there that meet full need.
http://www.thecollegesolution.com/list-of-colleges-that-meet-100-of-financial-need/
this list is a little outdated but a good place to start. Hope she finds somewhere that is a great fit!
@chicago5010 Will your child be in the running for national merit? There are many universities in the west the have good honors programs and offer generous merit aid to National Merit scholars up to full rides. Among them are Arizona State (very large but Barrett Honors provides a smaller environment), U of Arizona, University of Texas - Dallas, U of New Mexico, etc.
Like @Lindagaf I also endorse LACs - Vassar was mentioned upthread. She might want to consider Amherst, which has made meaningful efforts to diversify, has a fairly high % of Pell-eligible students, as LACs go, and is generous with need-based aid. Macalester in St Paul is also a good bet for socioeconomic diversity as well as a strong international student presence and commitment to community service/global citizenship. It is about a half an hour’s walk to the Mississippi River with an extensive network of trails and also boasts an indoor track for those long winters. Oberlin has strong writing and psychology programs and offers both merit and need-based aid. It’s in a small town but only 45 minutes to Cleveland. Dance offerings as LACs go are pretty decent. The student body skews wealthy, but the kids go out of their way not to broadcast their economic privilege.
Berea (KY) might be worth a look. Students must be low-income to apply (there’s an estimator on their webpage). Admitted students pay no tuition but are required to work 10 hours per week on campus or in the community. Depending on your particulars, you might be eligible for grants to cover some or all of room and board. Berea also recruits internationally. It is well regarded academically. Offers Psych, English with writing concentration, and a Health and Human Performance program that might cover the sports interest. Closest city is Lexington, about 40 miles.
For writing/journalism and sports medicine, maybe take a look at Ithaca College? Not sure about need-based aid there or the overall social vibe but I know a very down-to-earth young man who just finished there and had a good experience.
Clark University (Worcester, MA) is a small university with a distinguished psychology program, sports science/medicine, commitment to socioeconomic diversity, and offers generous merit and need-based aid. It is said to be a kind, welcoming place.
Case Western (Cleveland, OH) would meet your child’s academic interests, has decent dance offerings, is mid-sized, urban, but with nice parks along the lake for running (and a fairly stiff wind off the lake too). According to NYT socioeconomic data, it is fairly diverse for a private Research I university of its size and rank. Demonstrated interest is important.
Edited to add this link which is a very interesting analysis of the socioeconomic breakdown at US colleges and universities:
I second an earlier suggestion of Grinnell College.