<p>I know, Sue. I think my daughter doesn’t ignore any of it though. In fact, she is painfully careful.</p>
<p>It was a relief when she started to date a boy from a similar background, just because she could finally just relax about it. People are painfully aware these days of SES differences and the kids who “have” have to be awfully careful not to offend.</p>
<p>Still, it’s the “better” side of the issue to be on, which is why I advocate for schools which take Pell (all schools) not being allowed to charge more than Pell for tuition and room and board to the pell eligible students. That way all the work money would be theirs for spending and make it easier on one and all. JMO</p>
<p>It’s a challenging situation, on all sides.</p>
<p>It’s also not an issue that ends in college. I know I often have to be mindful of friends’ levels of means when making plans to go out together.</p>
<p>I’m gaining more sensitivity reading this thread. </p>
<p>My son asked for 2 things in freshman year for me to buy. The first was a window a/c. when I got there, thr rm/mt let me in and together we installed the a/c. The rm/mt was very reserved, and my son was surprised he was relaxed around me. I also got a small very comfortable couch for their room. They roomed together several years, and when my son arrived in San Jose, this former rm/mt was one of the first my son visited. </p>
<p>I met the parents at graduation dinner. They spoke almost no English. I still do not know if rm/mt was on full FA. I do know he is a grad student in his #1 choice. </p>
<p>It never occurred to me that this rm/mt could resent that I bought this objects without a thought when I was in the area, with a car.</p>
I remember this quite well from my time at Yale–many of the kids who received financial aid had campus jobs, including many in the dining hall, so they would be serving food to their classmates, including those who didn’t have to work in jobs like that. But this was one of the few situations in which the disparity was obvious, because, as noted by somebody else, at Yale everybody lives in the same residential colleges and eats the same food. Hardly anybody has a car on campus (and if they do, you don’t see it). People don’t dress up that much. I think it’s a good thing for kids to develop sensitivity about the fact that others aren’t as well off. That’s certainly something that will be helpful in adult life.</p>
<p>By the way, one diplomatic way around furnishing the suite is for the kid with money to say, “I’ll buy the [expensive shared object], and I’ll take it with me at the end of the year.”</p>
<p>I agree that it is important to develop sensitivity to SES differences, particularly for those who are fortunate.</p>
<p>Do you believe it is important to develop tact and sensitivity to intellectual differences for those born intellectually fortunate? Because I see a lot more tact among the wealthy towards others than I do from the intellectually gifted, who I think treat clerks and starbucks and mcdonald’s employees as if they are “less than” since they are less educated or less fortunate, as well.</p>
<p>This is a good system in general. I don’t think many people object if one roommate supplies a a TV or a video game system, for example, with the understanding that the object will depart when that person does. </p>
<p>But it’s more difficult when it comes to paying for services (e.g., cable TV) or special events (e.g., movie tickets).</p>
<p>I haven’t read all 21 pages of this thread so please forgive me if I am repeating stuff that was already discussed.</p>
<p>My daughter always went to schools where there were kids whose families had more, and kids whose families had less, although I’d say we were usually toward the bottom of the middle 50 percent.</p>
<p>I was always very grateful when friends’ families were generous and gave her opportunities that I couldn’t afford, and my daughter was (and still is) too. Not casting any aspersions here since I don’t know any of you in the flesh, but I think that sometimes it’s much more uncomfortable for the “haves” in these situations than it is for the “have-nots”–if those with more make a gracious offer that’s easy to turn down, without backing the person with less into a corner, they might find that the offer is graciously accepted or rejected without much angst.</p>
<p>I think most of us are guilty of calling the middle 90 percent “middle class” (c.f., many threads on CC from families with $250k income calling themselves “upper middle class”) and in general we are uncomfortable thinking of ourselves as “privileged.” Roommates and housemates with this disparity have to find a way to cope with this discomfort. But trust me, even if everyone wears a uniform and sleeps on exactly the same bed in exactly the same room, eating exactly the same food and wearing exactly the same jeans with holes and scuffed shoes, a kid who grows up in a household that has gone through months when the parent(s) has had to decide whether to pay the electric bill or the car payment have a very different feeling about living with less than those for whom it’s an exercise in economic equality. If you really can afford to be generous, make the offer, but only if you are capable of having it accepted or rejected, and capable of not storing it in some kind of register book in the back of your mind.</p>
<p>Yes, it can be a little uncomfortable, but trust me, it’s a lot more uncomfortable for the person who absolutely can’t have cable/vacations/concert tickets/sit-down restaurant meals unless someone else is kind enough to offer to pay.</p>
<p>Again, not aiming this at any of you, not thinking that the posters to this thread are in the clueless one percent or 10 percent or .01 percent, just a little message from the (very grateful) other side.</p>
<p>Miss Manners addressed this question in one of her first books, along the lines of poorer students suggesting low cost or free activities, along with graciously bowing out if a suggested activity was going to be too spendy. Which is a great life skill to have. If you find yourself bowing out all of the time for budget reasons, why would you want to hang out with someone who won’t make any accomodation? Conversely, if you’ve got the means to occasionally go for a ski weekend or jet abroad, and find that a friend is continually bringing up how it must be nice to afford it…same deal.</p>
<p>We did just that. Supplied the TV, frig , game console etc and my son told his room mate they could share them equally and we would just take them home at the end of the school year. My son also has no particular limit on his funds, but you wouldn’t know it looking at him. Ratty shoes (albeit Cole Haans) , scruffy t shirts, levis. I have noticed however that his closest friends all seem to be in the same sES, so Maybe it’s a matter of familiarity?</p>
<p>I find that interesting considering I’ve worked in retail and restaurant jobs myself from late elementary school till beginning of high school. Hey, back when I was growing up, it was a common expectation for kids who reached around 10 or sometimes even 9 or 8 to find an after-school/weekend job to earn some money for personal pocket money or in some cases…contribute to the family finances. </p>
<p>My ex-FSA/HYPSMCC graduate cousin worked several years from middle-high school at a potato chip packing plant…and worked so well he earned a plaque naming him the best packer for the year once. It’s an award he still retains next to his undergrad, grad degrees, patents, academic, and professional awards in his home office.</p>
<p>From the vantage point of being a retail/restaurant worker and observation of folks around me in retail/restaurant situations I’ve had some acquaintance with…the ones who treat those workers as if they were “less than” were almost invariably folks from wealthy backgrounds who never worked such jobs or held any jobs until college/after college graduation. </p>
<p>Most of the intellectually gifted kids I knew in middle/HS won’t do that…especially considering most of them worked such jobs themselves. </p>
<p>It wasn’t notable at all for classmates from the top 25% admitted to Ivy/elite colleges to have accomplished that while being on math/debate team and working such jobs like a stint as a waiter in a Chinatown or Greek/Italian diner after-school/weekends. An older HS alum friend who is also an SWAR LAC alum sold candy, sandwiches, and ice-cream from a cart during his HS years in the late '70s till the early '80s. </p>
<p>It may be one data point, but the few HS classmates I knew who were like that tended to be members of the wealthy upper-east sider set and were doing it partially to assuage their own feelings of intellectual inadequacy in comparison to their much more intellectually gifted, but working/lower-middle class classmates.</p>
<p>I really don’t remember being treated as “less than” when I worked those kinds of jobs in high school. It might have happened though, but I really doubt it would leap to mind that it was wealthy person treating me poorly. I would just assume it was an ass I should ignore.</p>
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<p>That’s cool that you knew the reason your classmates took those jobs was to assuage their own inadequacy.</p>
<p>Argh. Too late to edit. That last paragraph was referring to the wealthy classmates I was acquainted with who were snobbing on the working/lower-middle class classmates like myself who worked retail, restaurant, or other service jobs back when we were in late elementary to high school or who otherwise viewed those working such jobs as “lesser than”. </p>
<p>"From the vantage point of being a retail/restaurant worker and observation of folks around me in retail/restaurant situations I’ve had some acquaintance with…the ones who treat those workers as if they were “less than” were almost invariably folks from wealthy backgrounds who never worked such jobs or held any jobs until college/after college graduation. "</p>
<p>It’s fascinating that when you were a waiter, you knew the socioeconomic level of the people you waited on, as well as their job histories. How does that happen? I don’t discuss my finances or what jobs i held in hs/college with waiters. Next time I will be sure to. </p>
<p>It’s also fascinating that you knew that the reason these people were not-nice was because they were rich. Not be ause they were jerks, which can be found in any SES class. </p>
<p>Face it. You feel better with a worldview that rich people are all show off, snotty snobs who treat others poorly. It suits you to retain this stereotype.</p>
<p>The only sure thing in tipping–others in the business or former waitroids usually tip well. Otherwise you never know. My least favorite was older women who had to have separate checks. Usually closer to 10% than 20%. Maybe fixed income.</p>