I’m looking at Naviance through the portal of a rigorous public HS in the Northeast. Trying to compare small/midsize LACs. I’m puzzled by the data I’m seeing re: Wake.
For all these schools, except Wake, a student has a very good chance of getting in with a 1500 and a weighted 4.0-4.5, but there are also a decent number of admits in the 1350 and up with weighted 3.5-3.9 (note: our district has significant grade deflation vs. other comparable publics in the northeast). ED admission rates for these schools range from 40%-60%. I can’t tell from Naviance if these lower stat admits were recruits.
For Wake, I see only a handful of admits in 20 years, and none of them are below 1500/4.0. Anybody have a clue what the deal is? I’d expect to see fewer applications from our area, given the distance, but on Naviance, Wake looks as hard to get into as any Ivy! I wouldn’t expect that, given the 24% RD admit rate?! I can’t locate ED admissions info on Wake.
Anybody have ideas about what drives this? Is it just hard for northeasterners to demonstrate enough interest, do the interview, etc? Or do they just not like northeasterners?
Remember that Wake Forest is test optional (and has been since well before COVID) so the only applicants that submit test scores are the high scorers. I am a counselor and have had several kids apply ED test optional with lower than 4.0 weighted Gpas and get accepted. My RD kids who were admitted have had stats similar to what you are suggesting but ED is not horribly competitive.
I believe Wake is a school where the ED acceptance rate is around 25- 30% and the RD acceptance rate is very very low. Also, the acceptance rates are a year old and my understanding is that last year and this year were much more competitive than previously reported.
Also- my impression is Wake looks for fit and the essays and interview are highly important
Can you tell which applicants applied ED vs RD? Can you tell which applicants applied test optional? If not, Naviance scattergrams aren’t all that helpful.
Wake is also not need blind, and being full pay there is an advantage (as it is at some other schools), so some of the lower stats acceptances may have been full pay applicants.
Wake is a national reputation, perennial top school - not top 20 but top. And it’s a national name. Well known. A Skidmore, Lafayette less so and lower ranked in a smaller category - so I think people know where they can/should apply. In other words, stop 100 people on the street and ask about Wake Forest and many will know - even where it is. Ask 100 people about Lafayette and Skidmore and 90 won’t even have heard of them (outside the NE).
A 1300 might apply to Lafayette but won’t apply to Harvard, etc based on the knowledge via published stats.
Need aware vs. need blind can impact this. I read a story of Lafayette turning down an absolute stud because of the amount of scholarship required - and they acknowledged in the article it was for that reason.
Thanks! Are you closer to Wake (south or mid-Atlantic?)
I’m still confused. I’m looking at 20 years of data and not a single person with less than a 4.0 was admitted. We’re a big sports high school. Many kids tried to get in – I see lots of applications under 4.0. They may or may not have submitted scores, but at the end of the day they didn’t get in.
I wonder if Wake just doesn’t know what to do with our GPAs? I notice that a lot of colleges in the south post much higher GPAs than comparably selective schools in the northeast.
It depends on the weighting system but most seem to use a +.5 for Honors and + 1 for AP.
Wake does not show an average GPA on their website nor in the CDS but says 69% come from the 10% of the class.
Lafeyette shows 53% in the top 10%. They show 21% with GPAs of 3.25 to 3.49 (presumably not weighted).
Skidmore is 36% in the top 10%. They don’t show GPA. They also don’t seem to publish a GPA.
But anecdotally - Wake is attracting a much higher level student.
As for a school like UF - ranked higher than Wake - they are showing a 4.4 - 4.6 but that’s weighted. And again, best I can tell WFU and Skimore aren’t even publishing GPA data.
Also - don’t forget - schools look at rigor, essays, test scores, letters of rec, and more.
Anyway - these schools are of different caliber - even if admit rates aren’t that far apart - and I believe it’s in part because kids from a certain range self select based on data or perception.
I would use what the schools say - using a different source than @mwfan (CDS) and perhaps the year I have (21/22) is a year older data as it doesn’t match?
In 2021/22 CDS Wake had 15,156 applicants and admitted 3,816. So 25.2% admit rate with a 37.1% yield.
Villanova had 24,410 applicants and 6162 acceptances for 25.2% as well. They had a 28.8% yield.
Lafayette published the 22/23 CDS (the first two were 21/22) - they admitted 3531 of 10,500 or 33.6% so above the comparison range of 24-29%. Their yield was 21.4%.
Skidmore, also 22/23, admitted 25.5% and had a 23.2% yield.
While their rate may be similar to Nova, for example, their student selectivity is not - as 36% were in the top 10% vs. 70% at Nova.
I wonder if that statistic – % in the top 10% – differs depending on what region the college primarily draws students from? I could be wrong, but anecdotally, it seems like selective schools in the south have higher GPAs than equally selective schools in the north. (e.g., Clemson seems to have crazy high average GPA?). Average weighted GPA at our high school is a 3.5 and low/mid 1200s SAT.
I wonder if schools like Wake are really using top 10% of the class as a proxy without adjusting for average rigor by region. Perhaps the goal is geographic diversity? Or maybe its that they want to look more competitive by showing 69% from top 10%? Maybe as a northeasterner you really need DO need to be that 1500+/4.0+ kid to have a chance at Wake?
The data really should be more transparent. I don’t want my kid to get his heart set on a school and waste his one ED if his odds are materially impacted because of the region we’re from.
Not sure of the actual acceptance % for ED but ED represents approx 50% of the admitted students. As noted, RD is much more competitive for admissions.
Anecdotally, S’21’s friend group were all high stat kids (grade and test score- lots of 33-36 ACTs). It’s pretty common there.
The short essays are very important. Writing is very important.
Demonstrated interest is very, very important to Wake. If you havent visited in person that is a disadvantage. At our rigorous prep school one needed a 3.8 UW with SATs of 1400 to get in.
Historical info wont be that useful soon, given all the recent and upcoming changes to the admission process. Candidly, I doubt there is any difference in " rigor by region" anymore-states like Texas have NMSF cutoffs just as high as New York now
Absolutely agree on the demonstrated interest, and our private has Wake RD admissions with Wgpa 4.0+ gpa (roughly top 30%) and mid 1400s avg for admits, just RD. It all depends on school/area/interest etc. However, it is much easier to get into Villanova and lafayette from our school than it is to get into Wake. Not enough data on colgate(mostly recruits).
Naviance is for your school only, afaik. It could be that there are plenty of other schools in your area where kids are accepted to WF. I also live in the NE and a girl from our high school attended WF.
Maybe your school has no or little connection to Wake Forest. Maybe they don’t know enough about your school and don’t want to take a chance on it, or maybe they don’t think your school is rigorous enough, or maybe students have submitted weak apps. Or maybe they have no money left for FA, or maybe there isn’t enough demonstrated interest from people at your school.
If you really want to, ask your guidance counselor to put in a call to their admissions office when the application season is over. You might get in yet. Good luck.
