schools to consider?

<p>Hi,</p>

<p>I'm a junior planning to take the LSATs this June and apply to law schools in the fall, for entrance in September 06 (though I may defer for a year).</p>

<p>Right now, I have a 3.83 (gov major, self-designed social science methodology minor) at a top-20 liberal arts college. I took a practice LSAT last summer and got a 163...I'd like to improve that by 5-10 points by June. I was a Truman Fellowship finalist, have had some good but not amazing internships and extracurriculars, some of which were related to my professional interests. </p>

<p>I would like to study administrative and real estate law in preparation for a career in affordable housing policy or at an affordable housing development company. I also might be interested in a government job (district attorney's office, federal or state agency, Congressional Research Service, etc.) and I think I might like to clerk for a year or two after law school. Based on these job goals, a school with a good loan repayment assistance program is VERY important to me, more than nearly any other factor. </p>

<p>Here are the schools I'm planning on applying to--can anyone suggest others that I might not have thought of? Also, if you think I'm aiming too high or low, please let me know.</p>

<p>REACH
Harvard
Yale
NYU
Stanford
Berkeley
Michigan</p>

<p>MIDDLE/SAFE
George Washington
University of Minnesota
University of Iowa
Cardozo
Brooklyn</p>

<p>Wait and see what your actual LSAT is--it's wise to take it in June--and then decide where to apply. At that point, check out merit money--it's possible you'll get some and if you get some, loan forgiveness might not matter much. </p>

<p>So, take the test in June, get your score and come back and ask for additional information. You'll get better advice then. There's a world of difference between a 163 and 173 on the LSAT in terms of how you are likely to do in LS admissions. </p>

<p>Having said that...
You need to investigate individual schools, but my impression is that with one notable exception, involving a public U., USNews top 14 have good loan forgiveness programs. I'm not going to do the work to confirm that, but I think you've sort of jumped from top 10-12 to #20 or so..and focused too much on the top 5 law schools in the nation. I urge you to look at the bottom part of the top 14-16 and those schools between 17 and 20.. Then you kind of jump about 30 places in the rankings. ..and I don't think you should. There are a lot of good schools between 25 and 55 or so. </p>

<p>Again, I may be wrong, but my impression is that public U's usually don't have good loan forgiveness programs. I'm sure there are exceptions, but in general, it's more likely that a private U will offer loan forgiveness. </p>

<p>But really ......wait until you have a REAL LSAT score to ask your question and you'll get much better advice.</p>

<p>Just to note, if you got a 163 on your very first practice exam, you have a good shot at cracking 170 on the real thing. Just prep well for the test.</p>

<p>In full agreement with Jonri.</p>

<p>If you want a government job, DC (or the schools near it) would be a good place to start. Reach/match: Georgetown. Matches: GW, W&M, W&L, George Mason. Match/safety: American.</p>

<p>Unless you break a 170 on the LSAT and are going to a really, really good college, you shouldn't apply to all the top 3 schools. Some of the other posters might disagree, but it just seems like overkill. They are such very different schools, and your chances of getting in (as are almost anyone's chances) are so very slim that there seems to be little reason for it. </p>

<p>Really plug away at the schools ranked between about 35 and 15. Throw in a bunch which are ranked about 14 to 5. Add maybe one ranked 5 or up if you really nail the LSAT. Add two or three solid schools (35ish to 70ish) in the regions in which you want to practice.</p>

<p>There are 11 schools on your list. I'll assume that you want to end up in NYC or DC (the former b/c of the safeties you list, the latter from admin law/gov law). The list that I would put together (and most of the schools I looked at and applied to were in those areas) would look like this:</p>

<p>[Harvard (if you really kill the LSAT, as in 172+, and go to a really good school) - but that's an "if"]
NYU and Columbia if you break into the high 160s/170ish
Fordham
Georgetown
William and Mary
Washington and Lee
George Washington
American
Brooklyn</p>

<p>pick one of: Cardozo, George Mason, Hofstra, or the like
pick one of: Northwestern, Penn, UVA,</p>

<p>If you can hit the mid-high 160's, which I'm sure you can, then I would cast a wide net with the top schools (top 15), as they usually have strong repayment programs. Especially if you crack 170, I'd apply to all the top programs, including the top 3, as this is the best way of maximizing your odds of acceptance. </p>

<p>Throw in some of the other schools Aries lists as safeties that might also give you full-rides. </p>

<p>Just my opinion.</p>

<p>Should apologize - I missed the part where you said "Top 20 liberal arts college." That does make a difference. So ignore my instruction to "pick one of Cardozo...." </p>

<p>Also consider Duke. </p>

<p>Apply to at one school that is certainly a safety (American, Brooklyn, etc) - just so you have an acceptance letter in hand. The rolling admissions process is a lot more stressful than undergrad, and it really stinks to be waiting until March or April to get an acceptance (which I did). Law scohols take the best kids first. </p>

<p>Just my $0.02.</p>

<p>You can also go to lsac.org and do a geographic law school search.</p>

<p>Finally, get your applications in by the end of September. If you can, apply early action (avoid early decision, as financial aid might be a big deal - not that there is much at law school except for some merit aid).</p>

<p>law schools have early decision?</p>

<p>I have a few responses based upon my (and my wife's) experience in law school applications.</p>

<p>Someone wrote:
"Unless you break a 170 on the LSAT and are going to a really, really good college, you shouldn't apply to all the top 3 schools. Some of the other posters might disagree, but it just seems like overkill. They are such very different schools, and your chances of getting in (as are almost anyone's chances) are so very slim that there seems to be little reason for it."</p>

<p>You should definitely apply to at least 1. A 170+ IS NOT necessary for Harvard. My wife was waitlisted with a 159, and had an undergraduate GPA in chemistry/linguistics (double major) almost identical to your 3.83. If you are a minority, you will almost certainly get in if you are in the 160's with that high GPA. For reference my wife went to a big state school barely in the top 50 on US News report.</p>

<p>"Really plug away at the schools ranked between about 35 and 15. Throw in a bunch which are ranked about 14 to 5. Add maybe one ranked 5 or up if you really nail the LSAT. Add two or three solid schools (35ish to 70ish) in the regions in which you want to practice."</p>

<p>I agree with this to a point. I hope you have a lot of money, because each application will set you back 75 dollars or so. I personally could only afford 4-5 schools, so I broke it down as follows:</p>

<p>1 school in the top 10
2 schools in 10-25
1 school in 25-50 (any tier 1 school)</p>

<p>The justification for this is that schools similarly ranked often will have similar acceptance rates, because their admissions offices often copy and even coordinate (unofficially of course) with one another. One or two schools may set an acceptance trend, which similarly situated schools will follow. This is not always true however, as sometimes a higher ranked school will accept you, while a lower ranked will not; geography is sometimes responsible for this, sometimes its the essay reaction, and sometimes its just chance.</p>

<p>Private schools offer better loan repayment programs, and religious schools will offer more open, less politically correct discussions (Notre Dame, Gonzaga, Catholic U, BYU, SMU (?) maybe BC --- but Georgetown and the like are only nominally religious) - of course, this is a matter of personal preference and philosophy.</p>

<p>As to the top schools (1-20), I cannot overstate the importance of a good essay. If you are applying to a religous school, earnestly explain why and make a good story out of it. If you are applying to an ivy league, the same thing applies. Be creative - stories will entertain, but tie them down to answering the question "why should I accept this person"? Note that the offices look for qualities such as motivation, ability, diligence, leadership, studiousness, previous successes, and intelligence. Your writing should exhibit these things, however creatively or indirectly, without coming out and asserting them (that is what a resume is for). Make a fun analogy, or discuss your personal goals, or better yet, philosphy/religion (where appropriate). </p>

<p>If you are interested in Federal Government, make sure your essay exhibits the why of this interest, its extent, and how genuine/long-term it may be. Again, offices are not looking for something dry: "I like DC, I want to be in Congress, I want to write Policy" -- show something deeper...what do you know, what have you learned, what have you experienced, that makes you a) want to do policy, and b) think that you have something unique to offer in policy?</p>

<p>Hope this helps</p>

<p>Crazy,</p>

<p>Which year did you apply to law schools?</p>

<p>the year was 2003</p>

<p>(Darn 10 character minimum!)</p>

<p>I'm a 1L (assuming you are a 2L - guess I should have phrased my question differently, since my apps were in by the end of 2003). </p>

<p>It does surprise me to hear you say that, mostly because my year was a pretty rough admissions cycle, and I gather that the previous year was not much easier. I do know people who were flat-out rejected at Harvard - great LSATs, good GPAs in hard majors, great schools, master's degrees, all that. </p>

<p>My experience was quite different from yours. I had VERY different results. Waitlisted at a top 10, accepted to a top 20, rejected at top 50, waitlisted at top 70. The only consistent thing was that two of the three top 10 schools I applied to flat-out rejected me (though after much consideration... and a few, lesser schools put me in the auto-reject pile). It gets really messy. </p>

<p>I also think I had more money or energy than you did, as I applied to basically three times the number of schools you did, wrote individual apps for them, visited most of them, talked with admissions staff of every single one of them at the lsac fairs... ;) For the less motivated (or those who are not concurrently working an engineering job), your method works. </p>

<p>If the person breaks a 165 or so on the LSAT, he/she will probably get a fair amount of application fee waivers (I think I got three or four of them), so the only fee is the $10 for LSAC. Also, given how much law school costs, and the fact that he/she really wants merit aid or financial aid, there can be a lot gained from extra applications and extra decisions.</p>

<p>I personally think you should look at UT-Austin so I can visit you! :)</p>

<p>(PS. for everyone else, i actually know Stacy)</p>